PFF's Top 100 FAs + projected contracts

[casear2727]

(02-04-2023, 09:41 PM)Cicero Wrote: Get Brown. We’re a Lombardi contender right  now. He makes us a favorite. I’d especially like having a guy that’s gone against KC’s pass rushers for years in practice. We’ll almost certainly see them again and his knowledge would be great for game planning.

Brown is also a pain in the ass.  Not all KC fans want him back.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

We are not gonna pay $5 mil for a backup lineman.

[puddycat]

I think Hurst will be cheaper than that based on age/injuries. I'd be happy at 5-7M + performance incentives.
I'd love to have Bell back for a few more years, even if he loses his starting spot to someone on a rookie contract. He was a Bengals captain for a reason and a veteran presence a young secondary needs.
Pratt does not seem happy here. Between his insistence that he's a 3-down player, his Ossai comments (which were true, but not loyal), and the depth we seem to have at the position, I can't get excited about him getting paid.
Other: It's not that I wouldn't get excited about the prospect of a better line, but every single starter had his worst pff grade over the last 3 seasons (I didn't count Volson). I don't know who the weak link(s) are, but I am at least entertaining the idea that it's Pollack. We need this position group to be at least average. I just don't know that pursuing a FA is the solution. If anything, sign a competent veteran backup and let one of the young guys who have proved that they are not competent walk.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-02-2023, 06:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2023-free-agent-rankings-free-agency

Some notable OTs I've seen some project for Bengals along with current Bengals players:
4) Jessie Bates, FS CIN - $15 mill APY
8) Orlando Brown, LT KC - $21 mill APY
10) Mike McGlinchey, RT SF - $15.5 mill APY
15) Jawaan Taylor, OT JAX - $14.25 mill APY
37) Kaleb McGary, RT ATL - $13 mill APY
45) Vonn Bell, SS CIN - $7.33 mill APY
51) Germaine Pratt, LB CIN - $8.25 mill APY
56) Isaiah Wynn, OT NE - $10.5 mill APY
72) Kelvin Beachum, OT ARZ - $1.5 mill APY (not a typo)
74) Hayden Hurst, TE CIN - $9.5 mill APY
76) Jermaine Eluemunor, OT LV - $3.75 mill APY
97) George Fant, OT NYJ - $5.5 mill APY

That's all the OTs and all the Bengals players to make their list.
I listed the OTs because that seems to be where most want an addition via outside FA.

My opinion? Bengals won't put themselves in the OT market for guys $10+ mill APY.
They'll roll with Williams, Carman, and Collins this year and maybe add someone like Beachum, Eluemunor, or Fant to upgrade their depth or have a spot starter if (when) Collins isn't back from injury.

I don't see Hurst being that expensive or Pratt that affordable. Hurst is older, 30 coming off of injuries and hasn't had a career 
that at all matches his first round pick status. Pratt can be an every down LB even if we don't use him like that. Bell for that 
amount would be great. Of the OT's mentioned, I think Beachum, Eluemunor and Fant are most likely and would welcome either
one to RT. Then draft a RT like Darnell Wright for the future.

Collins won't be playing early in the season if at all, RT HAS to be addressed in FA with a proven veteran.

[Nepa]

(02-27-2023, 09:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: ****
I do not love Harrison. 
*****

I was doing the PFF draft simulator and their description of Harrison turned me off him: " Harrison’s ability to hold up to power rushes is borderline unplayable by NFL standards based on his 2022 tape. He’ll be in a quarterback’s lap every play

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-04-2023, 10:12 PM)Nepa Wrote: I was doing the PFF draft simulator and their description of Harrison turned me off him: " Harrison’s ability to hold up to power rushes is borderline unplayable by NFL standards based on his 2022 tape. He’ll be in a quarterback’s lap every play

Yeah, no to that guy. Looks like the next Ogbuehi or something...

[*ochocincos*]

(03-05-2023, 12:50 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, no to that guy. Looks like the next Ogbuehi or something...

From PFF's own analysis back in late December:
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-draft-top-10-offensive-tackle-rankings

Quote:3. ANTON HARRISON, OKLAHOMA (JUNIOR | 6-5, 315)

• 2022 Grade: 72.6
• Play Style: Light-Footed Pass Protector
• Initial Round Projection: 1st
  

Harrison has the uncoachable smoothness that you can’t help but admire from a 300-plus-pounder. He moves like an NBA power forward with feet, body and hands perfectly in sync. That helped him surrender only nine pressures on 447 pass-blocking snaps this season, and he had been seeing time at left tackle ever since his true freshman year in 2020.


Harrison is never going to be an explosive people mover in the run game. While he’s made strides in that regard, that’s just not the kind of player he is. Harrison is much more of a finesse player who wins with some of the best hand usage in the class.

I'm more concerned with finding a guy who can stay between Burrow and the defender than I am finding a dude who is going to out-muscle DL all the time.
If Harrison can be a dude who can allow under 20 total pressures in a year, that'd be a welcome change.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-05-2023, 01:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: From PFF's own analysis back in late December:
https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2023-nfl-draft-top-10-offensive-tackle-rankings


I'm more concerned with finding a guy who can stay between Burrow and the defender than I am finding a dude who is going to out-muscle DL all the time.
If Harrison can be a dude who can allow under 20 total pressures in a year, that'd be a welcome change.

Makes me feel better about him Ocho, thanks. I just don't think finesse OL fit here.

[XenoMorph]

Eric Kendricks now available...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/03/06/vikings-release-eric-kendricks/

[*ochocincos*]

(03-05-2023, 03:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Makes me feel better about him Ocho, thanks. I just don't think finesse OL fit here.

I can understand that sentiment, but I think "finesse" is a bit dramatic.
Ogbuehi was not finesse, he was just bad.
As long as you're not a liability in the run game and you can keep the pass rusher(s) from touching the QB, that's good enough.
That's way better than someone who can get push in the run game but isn't athletic enough to keep the pass rushers off the QB.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-06-2023, 12:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I can understand that sentiment, but I think "finesse" is a bit dramatic.
Ogbuehi was not finesse, he was just bad.
As long as you're not a liability in the run game and you can keep the pass rusher(s) from touching the QB, that's good enough.
That's way better than someone who can get push in the run game but isn't athletic enough to keep the pass rushers off the QB.

Something else to add on Harrison from our very own Mike Sans:

Quote:Harrison allowed just two sacks over three seasons. And he's a dominant run blocker as well.

https://twitter.com/bengals_sans/status/1626945772900974594

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-06-2023, 12:41 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Eric Kendricks now available...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/03/06/vikings-release-eric-kendricks/

Along with Wagner, the ILB market is getting deeper in FA, that helps us with Pratt. 

For me, our needs go: 

A. High priority: 
1. Starting SS (Bell) 
2. Starting level TE (Hurst) 
3. Starting level ILB (Pratt)  

B. Mid priority: 
4. OT solutions (short & long, RT & LT)
5. IOL depth 

C. Sure would be nice
6. Defensive playmaker depth. 1 CB + 1 DL (pass rush)
7. WR depth: someone who can separate.  
8. More TE depth. 
9. RB Mixon replacement 
10. A better punter 

That's 11 guys. Assuming we take care of the top 3 in some fashion in FA prior to the draft, I'd use our top 3 picks on: 

1. OL. 
2. Defensive playmaker (DL, CB).
3. Offensive weapon (TE, WR, RB) 

Wherever the best value lies. If we re-sign Bell, Hurst, & Pratt we do not really have any glaring holes, though Chido & Collins are both coming off serious injuries. We are then talking about depth, future planning, and getting guys who can put us over the top or upgrade an existing guy. Or fix the thing that cost us the last 2 Lombardi's: OL quality & depth. 

[pulses]

(02-02-2023, 06:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2023-free-agent-rankings-free-agency

Some notable OTs I've seen some project for Bengals along with current Bengals players:
4) Jessie Bates, FS CIN - $15 mill APY
8) Orlando Brown, LT KC - $21 mill APY
10) Mike McGlinchey, RT SF - $15.5 mill APY
15) Jawaan Taylor, OT JAX - $14.25 mill APY
37) Kaleb McGary, RT ATL - $13 mill APY
45) Vonn Bell, SS CIN - $7.33 mill APY
51) Germaine Pratt, LB CIN - $8.25 mill APY
56) Isaiah Wynn, OT NE - $10.5 mill APY
72) Kelvin Beachum, OT ARZ - $1.5 mill APY (not a typo)
74) Hayden Hurst, TE CIN - $9.5 mill APY
76) Jermaine Eluemunor, OT LV - $3.75 mill APY
97) George Fant, OT NYJ - $5.5 mill APY

That's all the OTs and all the Bengals players to make their list.
I listed the OTs because that seems to be where most want an addition via outside FA.

My opinion? Bengals won't put themselves in the OT market for guys $10+ mill APY.
They'll roll with Williams, Carman, and Collins this year and maybe add someone like Beachum, Eluemunor, or Fant to upgrade their depth or have a spot starter if (when) Collins isn't back from injury.

I'd be happy with Wynn for around that amount and cut Collins.

[pulses]

(02-02-2023, 10:24 PM)ElkValleyBengal Wrote: If those are indeed the contracts they end up signing, I think Bell and Pratt both need retained.  I'd be somewhat surprised if they aren't looking for more than that though.

If Bell gets away they need to go after Thornhill. KC isn't going to be able to keep him from what I was reading.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-06-2023, 12:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I can understand that sentiment, but I think "finesse" is a bit dramatic.
Ogbuehi was not finesse, he was just bad.
As long as you're not a liability in the run game and you can keep the pass rusher(s) from touching the QB, that's good enough.
That's way better than someone who can get push in the run game but isn't athletic enough to keep the pass rushers off the QB.

That is true, Ogbuehi just sucked.

(03-06-2023, 02:05 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Something else to add on Harrison from our very own Mike Sans:
https://twitter.com/bengals_sans/status/1626945772900974594

Synric was saying how Harrison's blocking in that system kind of skew things. Lots of RPO that might of made him look better than 
he really was, but I don't hate the guy like initially. I still want Darnell Wright who is anything but finesse.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-07-2023, 03:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is true, Ogbuehi just sucked.


Synric was saying how Harrison's blocking in that system kind of skew things. Lots of RPO that might of made him look better than 
he really was, but I don't hate the guy like initially. I still want Darnell Wright who is anything but finesse.

Remember though that Harrison has been there for 3 seasons and the gameplan changed with the change in QBs and HCs.
2020 - 173 pass block snaps for 74.1 pass block grade, 1 sack allowed (7 total pressures)
2021 - 382 pass block snaps for 85.6 pass block grade, 2 sacks allowed (17 total pressures)
2022 - 447 pass block snaps for 83.3 pass block grade, 1 sack allowed (9 total pressures)

They went from Spencer Rattler in 2020 to a mix of Rattler and Caleb Williams in 2021, then to Dillon Gabriel this past season.
HC changed from Lincoln Riley to Brent Venables last year.

Regardless of whether it's being heavy RPO or not, that's still 1002 pass block snaps with just 4 sacks allowed and 35 total pressures allowed in that span.

I'm willing to roll the dice on that over quite a lot of these other guys who will probably be available.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-07-2023, 03:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Remember though that Harrison has been there for 3 seasons and the gameplan changed with the change in QBs and HCs.
2020 - 173 pass block snaps for 74.1 pass block grade, 1 sack allowed (7 total pressures)
2021 - 382 pass block snaps for 85.6 pass block grade, 2 sacks allowed (17 total pressures)
2022 - 447 pass block snaps for 83.3 pass block grade, 1 sack allowed (9 total pressures)

They went from Spencer Rattler in 2020 to a mix of Rattler and Caleb Williams in 2021, then to Dillon Gabriel this past season.
HC changed from Lincoln Riley to Brent Venables last year.

Regardless of whether it's being heavy RPO or not, that's still 1002 pass block snaps with just 4 sacks allowed and 35 total pressures allowed in that span.

I'm willing to roll the dice on that over quite a lot of these other guys who will probably be available.

Nice Ocho. Definitely warming up to him.

[007BengalsFan]

(03-07-2023, 03:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: 2021 - 382 pass block snaps for 85.6 pass block grade, 2 sacks allowed (17 total pressures)
2022 - 447 pass block snaps for 83.3 pass block grade, 1 sack allowed (9 total pressures)

How do you have more pass block snaps, allow less sacks and less pressurue but end up with a lower pass block grade?

[*ochocincos*]

(03-08-2023, 05:27 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: How do you have more pass block snaps, allow less sacks and less pressurue but end up with a lower pass block grade?

Because it's about what you do on all the snaps. You can still do something poorly but not have it result in a pressure/hit/sack.