Bates Overrated?

[*Nately120*]

(03-03-2023, 11:44 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I don't know that Tee sees himself as second banana to Chase. I tend to think Tee thinks him competing with Chase makes them both better. And with Chase getting the constant double team, Tee is free to rack up the yardage. They have different skill sets anyway.

If Chase is getting the constant double team Tee is the second banana.  It might not matter to him, but he's going to be the #2 here by default. 

If we aren't trying to trade him we can just assume and hope Tee has told the FO that he won't be seeking that #1 spot and a desperately big contract elsewhere.  

[*Go Cards*]

Just don't like tagging players like Bates or Higgins. Imo it's a d*** move to a player that has proven their worth in a game where careers are very short and you've got to strike gold while the irons hot. I believe tagging Bates cost him slightly already, he would have raked in FA last year and he deserved it as well.

Either you can afford to pay them or not. If you know it's not, then trade them the year before a get some return and spend their contract money in FA to compensate the loss. It's actually a win/win for both team and player and much more honorable imo.

If you can pay him ? Then do it and let's move forward.

Bringing back someone you will have to tag to just keep is only beneficial to the team and usually does not sit well with player. The player may decide to play to not get hurt or they could even feign an injury if they're really upset. It's almost like a hostage situation albeit with much more monetary compensation involved.

Love Bates, Higgins, and Mixon, yet think Burrow, Chase, Hubbard, Reader, Logan, Awuzie and shoring up the O-line are much harder to replace. All 3 would be amongst this list if not for high contracts and playing positions more easily replaced in draft imo.

Hell I wish they could just wrap this team up in plastic and roll with same players for years to come but the cap will not allow this unfortunately

[Sled21]

(03-03-2023, 12:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If Chase is getting the constant double team Tee is the second banana.  It might not matter to him, but he's going to be the #2 here by default. 

If we aren't trying to trade him we can just assume and hope Tee has told the FO that he won't be seeking that #1 spot and a desperately big contract elsewhere.  

So, if Chase is getting double teamed and racks up 1200 yards, and Tee racks up 1500 yards on the other side because of it, is that really second banana? I guess it all depends on how you see bananas.... Playing together enhances both of their careers.

[*Nately120*]

(03-03-2023, 05:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: So, if Chase is getting double teamed and racks up 1200 yards, and Tee racks up 1500 yards on the other side because of it, is that really second banana? I guess it all depends on how you see bananas.... Playing together enhances both of their careers.

Well, having more than one #1 caliber WR sounds great from a fan perspective, but if we are going to treat them like #1 WRs we have to be open to the reality that they both might want to be paid like #1 WRs and keeping two #1 WRs on the same team could be a pricey feat.

It could happen, I hope it happens, I'm just open to the reality that it might not all work out where we have two #1 WRs and an elite QB at the same time.  It wasn't all that long ago when we as fans understood that this team couldn't keep Dalton, AJ Green, and Marvin Jones at the same time.

[Tlawsonmariat82]

(03-02-2023, 09:48 PM)TheFan Wrote: How is he underrated? He's been an average grading safety the last 2 years and is living off of 2020. I think most people see him as a 10-15 range safety and I dont think there's much evidence to support he's a top 3 safety like he wants to be paid like. 

Look at the playoff teams and a top paid safety is pretty much no where on the list of successful teams. He's not even in the realm of a Polamalu, Reed, Thomas etc who are complete game changers. No successful team will pay him what he wants. If a crap team overpays him and then becomes good, he'll likely be one of the first cap casualties unless that give him the fully guaranteed contract. 

Completely false!you do realize Baltimore gave Marcus Williams 5 years 70m??you do understand that around the league bates is recognized as a far better safety than Williams??just because you ignorant fans don't think the bengals should pay him doesn't mean he shouldn't get paid..

[TheFan]

(03-04-2023, 08:56 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: Completely false!you do realize Baltimore gave Marcus Williams 5 years 70m??you do understand that around the league bates is recognized as a far better safety than Williams??just because you ignorant fans don't think the bengals should pay him doesn't mean he shouldn't get paid..

I never said he shouldn't get paid. Bates has been average to slightly above average the last 2 years and if someone gives him top 3 money they won't be getting that type of player. 

Bates is good but the amount of money he wants is not something the Bengals should give him. I don't think the Williams deal is probably that much different than what the Bengals offered Bates, but he wants more and more guaranteed.

Williams is making 14mil per vs say 17-19mil like Jamal Adams, Derwin James, and Minkah Fitzpatrick. All who are far more significant game changers compared to Bates.

[*bfine32*]

Very surprised there was not a thread started today about JB not getting the tag. We took Dax last year, but we didn't see a whole lot.

[George Cantstandya]

(03-07-2023, 09:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Very surprised there was not a thread started today about JB not getting the tag. We took Dax last year, but we didn't see a whole lot.

I don't think many expected him to get tagged again this year at the 120% from last year.  

[casear2727]

(03-04-2023, 08:56 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: Completely false!you do realize Baltimore gave Marcus Williams 5 years 70m??you do understand that around the league bates is recognized as a far better safety than Williams??just because you ignorant fans don't think the bengals should pay him doesn't mean he shouldn't get paid..

I think this is a terribly misinformed comment.

Marcus Williams is WIDELY considered to be a much more consistent player than Bates, he is more of a ball hawk, and a better tackler.

Maybe chill on the insults, especially if you are going to be so wrong...?

[THE PISTONS]

(03-08-2023, 01:32 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I think this is a terribly misinformed comment.

Marcus Williams is WIDELY considered to be a much more consistent player than Bates, he is more of a ball hawk, and a better tackler.

Maybe chill on the insults, especially if you are going to be so wrong...?

Bingo.

At his best, Bates can be great. But, you don't get that every game. You get long stretches of an average to above average safety.

Now, maybe teams don't throw his way sometimes and that hurts his grades. Hard to factor that in.

With a salary cap, and a QB that will be making ~$50 million, you just can't pay everyone. When they drafted Hill, it was them saying that Bates was a guy they chose not to pay.

I like having Bates on the roster, but I get it. Can't keep everyone.

[*Synric*]

Main concern right now is they are 5 days from the beginning of legal tampering and they still have a gaping hole after Dax Hill at Safety. I would really like to see Vonn Bell resigned before the weekend.

[Bengal Dude]

(03-08-2023, 02:00 PM)Synric Wrote: Main concern right now is they are 5 days from the beginning of legal tampering and they still have a gaping hole after Dax Hill at Safety. I would really like to see Vonn Bell resigned before the weekend.

There's a possibility that the team has presented deals to multiple players, but they want to test the market. If they don't find what they want then they'll probably wind up back here.

[Sled21]

(03-07-2023, 09:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Very surprised there was not a thread started today about JB not getting the tag. We took Dax last year, but we didn't see a whole lot.

Because Bates was on the field. If Bates is gone this year, which he probably will be because someone will overpay him (probably Cleveland ) then Hill is next man up.