The Burrow Deal?

[casear2727]

(02-27-2023, 03:33 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Others pointed out the benefits of getting guaranteed money as early as possible.  Pat Kirwan is a fan of writing the contracts based on percentage of the Cap so both ownership and player are rewarded/protected depending on cao flux. 

How does a percentage of the cap help the team in any way? 

Florio keeps preaching this and it makes zero sense to me. 

Today's world; as the cap rises the QB deal becomes a lesser percentage of the cap, that is good for signing other players.

A percentage of the cap would most likely be considered guaranteed, how would that be calculated for future years as to being in compliance with the escrow requirement?   

I do not see any benefit for this idea other than the QB is getting a raise every year, it most likely negates the opportunity to be creative with rolling guarantees, etc., and would defitniely prevent the signing of some new free agents every year.

I wish Pat or Mike or anyone, would explain to me how this is beneficial to the team moving forward.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-27-2023, 05:18 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: The way I look at it is we got to the Super Bowl in year two and the AFCC in year three.

The safe move would be to sign this offseason and he'll get a huge contract, but with our team drastically improved this offseason (assuming that we do improve it) and we don't have as bad luck with injuries, we could win the Super Bowl this year and then Burrow would be looking at a much bigger contract. He'd probably be in a position to demand a record contract after bringing us our first Super Bowl in history.

He won't be hurting either way but it's just a matter of if he wants the sure thing or potential for the monster deal.

You just had to stack up 3 hypothetical qualifiers to even try to begin to make not taking huge guaranteed money right now make sense. On the flip side of those 3 hypothetical qualifiers is the 1 threat of an injury that either makes his career never the same, or ends it, or nothing tears or breaks but concussions start stacking up ala Tua.

[*bfine32*]

(02-27-2023, 05:27 PM)casear2727 Wrote: How does a percentage of the cap help the team in any way? 

Florio keeps preaching this and it makes zero sense to me. 

Today's world; as the cap rises the QB deal becomes a lesser percentage of the cap, that is good for signing other players.

A percentage of the cap would most likely be considered guaranteed, how would that be calculated for future years as to being in compliance with the escrow requirement?   

I do not see any benefit for this idea other than the QB is getting a raise every year, it most likely negates the opportunity to be creative with rolling guarantees, etc., and would defitniely prevent the signing of some new free agents every year.

I wish Pat or Mike or anyone, would explain to me how this is beneficial to the team moving forward.

Because a player will never take a larger percentage of the cap than they did when they signed. There's no guarantee that the cap is going to rise each year. We're just 2 years removed from the cap decreasing. 

[casear2727]

(02-27-2023, 06:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Because a player will never take a larger percentage of the cap than they did when they signed. There's no guarantee that the cap is going to rise each year. We're just 2 years removed from the cap decreasing. 

The cap decreased one time due to a worldwide pandemic.  The new TV deals, along with Youtube pretty much guarantees the cap will continue to rise, and not just rise but most likely rise by greater amounts than ever before.

I do not not see any way a percentage based contract benefits the team?

[BRM13]

(02-27-2023, 05:27 PM)casear2727 Wrote: How does a percentage of the cap help the team in any way? 

Florio keeps preaching this and it makes zero sense to me. 

Today's world; as the cap rises the QB deal becomes a lesser percentage of the cap, that is good for signing other players.

A percentage of the cap would most likely be considered guaranteed, how would that be calculated for future years as to being in compliance with the escrow requirement?   

I do not see any benefit for this idea other than the QB is getting a raise every year, it most likely negates the opportunity to be creative with rolling guarantees, etc., and would defitniely prevent the signing of some new free agents every year.

I wish Pat or Mike or anyone, would explain to me how this is beneficial to the team moving forward.

I think the explanation is that the player gets guaranteed raises later when the cap is able to absorb them more easily.  Therefore, the player will accept less up front.  Gives the team more flexibility in early years and cost certainty later (eliminates risk to team that 'normal' raises eat up too much cap later on).  Player gets 'fair' raises, in line with rise in cap (i.e., league revenue).  You are right, though; if the player won't take less in early years for this feature, there isn't much reason for team to want to do it.

[casear2727]

(02-28-2023, 02:02 AM)BRM13 Wrote: I think the explanation is that the player gets guaranteed raises later when the cap is able to absorb them more easily.  Therefore, the player will accept less up front.  Gives the team more flexibility in early years and cost certainty later (eliminates risk to team that 'normal' raises eat up too much cap later on).  Player gets 'fair' raises, in line with rise in cap (i.e., league revenue).  You are right, though; if the player won't take less in early years for this feature, there isn't much reason for team to want to do it.

Let me know when a majority of NFL players are cool with taking less...

[Ell Prez]

To the question of why should Burrow sign this year versus next year-

When you’re given the chance to get a massive lump sum of cash year 1, $60-$80M) to now sit in your bank account and diversify and invest and turn that in to more money- it’s hard to say no to. I think almost all of us would take the chance to sign up for life changing money as opposed to wait an extra year, for maybe a little more per year in the deal.

[*Nately120*]

(02-28-2023, 11:34 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: To the question of why should Burrow sign this year versus next year-

When you’re given the chance to get a massive lump sum of cash year 1, $60-$80M) to now sit in your bank account and diversify and invest and turn that in to more money- it’s hard to say no to. I think almost all of us would take the chance to sign up for life changing money as opposed to wait an extra year, for maybe a little more per year in the deal.

If Burrow wins MVP and/or the SB this year he would be able to get a deal that would make Deshaun Watson blush.  I can't see any scenario where Burrow does anything in 2023 that doesn't greatly add to his value and leverage, and that is why we are sitting here hoping that the guy is more interested in making his fortune doing commercials than playing football.

If we expect Burrow to have a great shot at winning the SB/MVP ect we have to expect that he might want to have those on his resume before he makes the deal he's been working his entire life to make.

[Clark W Griswold]

The Giants probably just cost the Bengals millions of dollars.

They should try to sign him ASAP before another team drastically over pays for a mediocre QB.

[Nepa]

(03-08-2023, 01:38 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: The Giants probably just cost the Bengals millions of dollars.

They should try to sign him ASAP before another team drastically over pays for a mediocre QB.

KC Chiefs are now thanking their lucky stars that they locked-in Mahomes for 10 years back in 2020, before things went totally out of whack.

[Bengalion]

We live in a world where Mahomes is just 5 millions ahead of Daniel Jones. The Giants will never win a SB with Jones at the helm, that has to be one of dumbest moves of the off-season so far.

[*Nately120*]

(03-08-2023, 01:38 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: The Giants probably just cost the Bengals millions of dollars.

They should try to sign him ASAP before another team drastically over pays for a mediocre QB.

I think the Watson contract is still the one that will cost teams dearly for QBs of Burrow s caliber for years to come. That was an NFL breaking contract, but the Browns didn't want to lock down Mayfield like the Giants locked down Jones, either.  

[casear2727]

(02-27-2023, 03:29 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Unfortunately, these post-rookie contract extension deals for QBs typically occur in the summer. I don't know why. Maybe it has to do with the GM, coaches, owners etc finally having time for in depth discussion doesn't occur until after the draft and free agency and I imagine OTAs being around that time has something to do with it to, just to get everyone in the same room in a convenient manner.

Kyler Murray signed his in July 2022.
Josh Allen signed his in August 2021
Patrick Mahomes signed his in July 2020
Deshaun Watson's original extension with the Texans was signed September 2020.
Carson Wentz signed his extension in June 2019.
Jared Goff signed his extension in September 2019

Even Russel Wilson, who wasn't even due for a contract extension, signed in September 2022. The only extension I can think of that was signed pre-free agency was Aaron Rodgers last year, and that's because he had to make a decision on where he would play (if at all), so that was pertinent information prior to free agency.

I imagine the Bengals have a general idea of what cap hits they can expect in the next few seasons with Joe Burrow and roughly the amount of cash he wants up front. I bet it's just the fine details, the last 5%, that typically holds up the final signing. So I am hopeful that this should not affect the team too much in regards to free agency.

(02-27-2023, 03:41 PM)GodFather Wrote: Sooner than later, they need to get it done to see what they will have for the rest of the season signings, Burrow is first and foremost, lock him up for the next 10 years!

We shouldn't expect Burrow to even be offered anything to sign until April.  March 31st is the deadline for escrow cash.

[CKwi88]

I think it gets done in July or August of this year. I think both sides want to get it done, and the Bengals have traditionally taken care of their homegrown talent, especially at QB.

[jj22]

Danny Dollars just got 48 million a year (8m of which are incentive based). Burrow about to break the bank.

Mahomes deal looks great. He will make 31m this year. Danny Dimes at minimum 40m....

[*Nately120*]

(03-08-2023, 05:45 PM)jj22 Wrote: Danny Dollars just got 48 million a year (8m of which are incentive based). Burrow about to break the bank.

Mahomes deal looks great. He will make 31m this year. Danny Dimes at minimum 40m....

Another interesting aspect of the Burrow deal is that IF he goes full Watson and demands a huge fully-guaranteed contract he could still win the SB and be the MVP and all that jazz and it would "justify" the insane prices QBs now demand.

I know we have it good, but I'm not sure we know how good we have it.  Burrow is a slam-dunk franchise savior and we lucked into getting him for a single draft pick.  Other teams are picking busts at #1, trading a buttload of picks to trade up to get busts and/or get veteran QBs that may not work out, and are giving middling QBs team-killing deals because they can't just grab the next Trent Dilfer off the scrap heap and build a perfect 52 man roster around him.

We can safely say  the Giants will never vie for a SB with Daniel Jones on that contract, that's fair.  But as a fan with a limited time on this earth I can admit that I watched 9 years of Andy "never going to win it all" Dalton, and if you think Palmer didn't have what it takes to win it all either, that makes 27 years of "Well, the Bengals will never win with THAT QB" football that we watched.

We managed to go 0-7 in one-score games in 2019.  We came amazingly close to missing out on Burrow and what should be an ability to avoid this QB insanity for a long-ass time.

There but for the grace of the football gods, go us.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-27-2023, 12:24 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: What do you guys think the timing of this deal looks like?

IMO it needs to be done sooner rather than later and preferably before free agency begins (March 7th). It's much to the Bengals benefit to go into this years free agency knowing how the largest contract in your franchises history is structured.

I'm confident the Bengals get it done soon. I'll add a poll just because im curious what you all think.

I think it will be before the season (Training Camp). We will see, I would love it if we got the Burrow deal done next week though.

He should be the highest paid QB after no question, but like he says, our SB window is open his entire career here, he is worth it.

Wouldn't take any QB over Burrow, not even Mahomes.