Bengals Will Be Just Fine For 2023 Season

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2023, 11:19 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I think Carman put Williams on notice he's coming after the position. Williams better get it together this off season and put on some more weight and strength, or he will be relegated to the swing backup tackle position and Carman will start at LT. That can't help but make them both better, so let's see who puts in the work this off season.

More competition is great, happy Carman finally got a chance and played well. Was taking a ton of flack for backing up the pick 
for years. People finally saw what I was talking about late in the season and in the Playoffs. He doesn't get pushed around like 
Jonah does. He will struggle with speed rushers but so do most big mauling OL.

(03-11-2023, 11:52 AM)samhain Wrote: The Carman situation is frustrating.

He did everything you could ask of him at the most critical time of year.  

This occurred in a season where he was a healthy scratch more than once.  It really calls the OL coach and his ability to evaluate talent into question.  The guy not only held his own, but was extremely physical and a willing mauler in the run game.  Did not fit the narrative of a lazy fat guy that didn't like football that hung around his neck since the minute he got here.  This dude rode the bench behind Adeniji.  I just don't get it.

I get that it's 2 games, but this team is starving for capable young OL.  Failing to find a place for him is discouraging.  What's also discouraging is that he's going into year 3 and will be extension-eligible as Higgins is right now.  How are they supposed to evaluate Carman when he's on the bench?  

How pissed would you be if this guy sits behind Jonah, the anointed starter for another season, due to size of contract only?  How pissed would you be if he walks after his rookie deal only to sign with another team and look like he did in the playoffs while the Bengals continue to toil trying to find homegrown OL talent?

People clamor for McGlinchey as a RT candidate.  MicGlinchey is basically a rich man's Jonah Williams.  Jonah has played the right side.  I feel like the team is missing an opportunity to maximize the in-house talent by leaving Jonah at LT.  That move makes the biggest offseason need a non-need.

Lot of great questions and points in this post Samhain. It has been frustrating on how the coaches have handled Carman and 
the entire situation. One of my few complaints about this coaching staff. If the OL doesn't improve significantly this season I am 
for moving on from Pollack and getting a better OL coach, also Brian Callahan can go somewhere else as well, sometimes you 
can have too many minds like Billy B said back in the day.

To rule out moving Jonah to a position he HAS played before and played well I think is a big mistake and will continue to say 
so until Carman does what they are saying and is the answer at RT. I don't see it, could see it the other way around where 
Jonah is decent at RT and Carman is better at LT than Jonah though.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-11-2023, 01:54 PM)samhain Wrote: Maybe.  I mean, he's better than Turner.

The Bengals, particularly Taylor seem to know what they are doing.  They make some mistakes and learn on the fly.  

One mistake they need to learn from is continuing to hire bad to so-so OL coaches.  

They will undoubtedly invest an insane amount of money in offensive skill players throughout the Burrow era.  There won't be a lot of wiggle room in the cap to patch holes on the OL with established free agents.  They are not stellar at drafting OL.  

I'd find the best OL coach that fits the scheme and pay him whatever he wants within reason.  There's no cap on coaches, and the impact is significant.  We need a guy that can develop players and pick the right guys for the scheme.  Stop moving guys all over the place from natural positions.  It's a shitty practice that puts them upside down in the long run.  I get that there are needs, but it gets silly seeing it all the time.

Pollack is as good as the players he's given.  He was great in Dallas because he had studs all over the line.  He's not likely to get guys like that here.  He's going to have to make them, and idk if he can.

Zac has obviously proven he’s a great judge of coaches. Oh sure he struggled out the shute due to his late getting the job. He whiffed on Jim Turner badly but he had seen his success in person at TAMU and Miami. Turner is related to his FIL. Unfortunately Turner’s marine style relates horribly with todays athlete much less professional. You can know coaching but if players hate you it doesn’t matter a lick. Pollack was Mike Brown’s guy and Taylor had no choice with his precarious position as head coach. They brought in Derek Frazier from I believe Wyoming to help him. I really hope they trade up with Detroit @18 and swap first rounders and give them our second rounder. Get a great tackle or TE. I’d have that trade ready to do if someone they really want is there.

[NUGDUKWE]

(03-11-2023, 11:18 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’d expect GB is preparing for life after Aaron Rodgers. I’m sure they are going to have a huge cap hit when he bolts. Restructuring deals is just kicking the can down the road as another poster so cutely posted.

Yeah I was trying to look it up after I posted. So from my understanding when they restructure to a cash bonus. It just let's teams spread that bonus money out over a max of 5 years? I think they're are definitely ways to put that to use. Like if we had signed Bates 2 years ago then we could be making his cap hit less now when other contracts are coming up. But that's in the past. But we could be making some move this free agency as most likely cap hits from our own guys won't be bad for a couple more years than we could lessen the player or players signed this year's contract when those are about to go up. 

[Soonerpeace]

(03-11-2023, 03:34 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah I was trying to look it up after I posted. So from my understanding when they restructure to a cash bonus. It just let's teams spread that bonus money out over a max of 5 years? I think they're are definitely ways to put that to use. Like if we had signed Bates 2 years ago then we could be making his cap hit less now when other contracts are coming up. But that's in the past. But we could be making some move this free agency as most likely cap hits from our own guys won't be bad for a couple more years than we could lessen the player or players signed this year's contract when those are about to go up. 

The problem with Bates is the figure as a whole. And the figure as a whole on the OL. The team is really like a business. How much are you going to allocate to salaries? To rent? To advertising? Inventory? Every category has a dollar amount. If they plan to allocate money to Tee and Chase there’s not going to be much for the third guy. The only way to keep a team Uber competitive is have a great QB, a great Edge, a great WR., a great corner, a great LT and really hit in the draft. But all these posters wanting us to go out and spend a lot of money on a tackle …. it’s just not there for what they want to do.

[BengalsBong]

(03-11-2023, 11:52 AM)samhain Wrote: The Carman situation is frustrating.

He did everything you could ask of him at the most critical time of year.  

This occurred in a season where he was a healthy scratch more than once.  It really calls the OL coach and his ability to evaluate talent into question.  The guy not only held his own, but was extremely physical and a willing mauler in the run game.  Did not fit the narrative of a lazy fat guy that didn't like football that hung around his neck since the minute he got here.  This dude rode the bench behind Adeniji.  I just don't get it.

I get that it's 2 games, but this team is starving for capable young OL.  Failing to find a place for him is discouraging.  What's also discouraging is that he's going into year 3 and will be extension-eligible as Higgins is right now.  How are they supposed to evaluate Carman when he's on the bench?  

How pissed would you be if this guy sits behind Jonah, the anointed starter for another season, due to size of contract only?  How pissed would you be if he walks after his rookie deal only to sign with another team and look like he did in the playoffs while the Bengals continue to toil trying to find homegrown OL talent?

People clamor for McGlinchey as a RT candidate.  MicGlinchey is basically a rich man's Jonah Williams.  Jonah has played the right side.  I feel like the team is missing an opportunity to maximize the in-house talent by leaving Jonah at LT.  That move makes the biggest offseason need a non-need.

It seems to me like the O-line coach has a personal issue with Carman and would rather see him fail then succeed. I do not think Pollack liked the Carman pick and was upset that the owner took piano mans advice and picked Carman. 

Pollack need to worry about keeping his own job and develop every O-lineman to the best of his ability or he might find himself looking for a new job. 
  

[Soonerpeace]

(03-11-2023, 05:05 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: It seems to me like the O-line coach has a personal issue with Carman and would rather see him fail then succeed. I do not think Pollack liked the Carman pick and was upset that the owner took piano mans advice and picked Carman. 

Pollack need to worry about keeping his own job and develop every O-lineman to the best of his ability or he might find himself looking for a new job. 
  

I don’t know about Pollack or for sure the circumstances behind the pick. I do know they felt they were misled by someone about him either by someone at Clemson or someone else about his work ethic. I understand he came into camp in poor shape his rookie year and in fairness related to injury. He looks much better and maybe the light came on. You know it’s time to fix the OL. I don’t care how you do it but don’t leave a single stone unturned. If the light has come on for Carman great. Does he realize he has to get with it for a second contract with the Bengals or anyone? Don’t give two craps. Fixing the OL is past time. Yes they were playing much better before the injuries and we won 10 straight.

[Graphicguy]

You just don’t know how some players will transition from college to the pros. Plus, I think the Bengals tend to stick with their draft mistakes longer than other teams. But, all teams whiff on draft picks.

Did the light go on for Carman? I dunno. Need to see him play an entire season as a starter.

As far as Polllack, he has had little in the way of success with this OL..even when the Bengals dropped barrels of cash on FAs. It’s getting hard to support him given what we’ve seen so far.

As good a job as Zac has done with the rest of his coaches, OL seems to be his one bugaboo. Or, maybe Mike Brown really likes Pollack and that’s why he stays.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-12-2023, 11:25 AM)Graphicguy Wrote: You just don’t know how some players will transition from college to the pros.  Plus, I think the Bengals tend to stick with their draft mistakes longer than other teams.  But, all teams whiff on draft picks.

Did the light go on for Carman?  I dunno.  Need to see him play an entire season as a starter.

As far as Polllack, he has had little in the way of success with this OL..even when the Bengals dropped barrels of cash on FAs.  It’s getting hard to support him given what we’ve seen so far.

As good a job as Zac has done with the rest of his coaches, OL seems to be his one bugaboo.  Or, maybe Mike Brown really likes Pollack and that’s why he stays.

Sure hope we add a good RT and a few depth pieces so we can truly see if Pollack is the answer at OL coach. When the OL was 
healthy mid season it was really coming on in both pass protection and in the run game. I wouldn't say Pollack is most definitely 
the problem, at least not quite yet. If the OL is the problem once again this season I will say it.

We need to see the biggest improvement on the OL this year even more than last year. We saw the RZ Offense improve last year
the most which was one of the biggest needs. We will see if the other biggest weakness improves under Pollack this year.

[QueenCity]

I don't like Pollack for the fact that he continues to try out his Wide Zone Scheme. He's trying to fit players that are square into a round hole.

Bengals had to change scheme the last two years into a power scheme correct? It's time for a change in my opinion bring in a coach who's had success and fix it before our window is up.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-12-2023, 04:23 PM)QueenCity Wrote: I don't like Pollack for the fact that he continues to try out his Wide Zone Scheme.  He's trying to fit players that are square into a round hole.

Bengals had to change scheme the last two years into a power scheme correct? It's time for a change in my opinion bring in a coach who's had success and fix it before our window is up.

Yeah, my biggest complaint as well with Pollack. Stick to the Gap scheme, yah know? The scheme that fits our OL...