Comp Picks

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-15-2023, 12:28 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: So the moral of the story is dont be surprised if the Bengals dont go after a free agent safety because they want to keep a potential 3rd round draft pick they get for losing Bates.

If they are going to spend FA dollars and get a starter, I sure as hell hope it is Germaine Eluemunor, the RT from the Raiders.  I could roll with Hill and Anderson at safety, but I am sure they will also sign a mid-to-lower tier veteran for depth.  

That would likely negate the Bell compensatory pick, as Eluemunor is projected to get around $10 million per year.  Hopefully, they could get him closer to 8, but he will likely want more guarantees.  Watching Collins underperform shows you a part of the reason why the Bengals try to avoid guaranteeing a lot of money upfront.  

[SunsetBengal]

(03-15-2023, 01:29 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I was listening to Malik Wright today. He said the person he talks to within the team said that the comp pick strategy has changed in the FO. Apparently sitting back and trying to compile comp picks is no longer the strategy. The team is willing to sign players and not be dependent on comp picks.

At least that is somewhat reassuring that the team must have recognized that playing the comp pick strategy was not a successful one to continue.  What is rather disturbing is that with the trend of new contracts including higher and higher percentages of guaranteed money and the Bengals unwillingness to offer those deals.  I'm pretty sure that I read last year that the reason they never came to terms with Jesse Bates, prior to using the franchise tag on him, was because they were unable to agree upon the guaranteed money aspect.  For a fan such as myself, this causes me to wonder if on the Bengals part if it is simply an unwillingness, or an inability to put the cash aside for these guaranteed contracts?

With 3 major contracts coming up in Burrow, Higgins and Chase, even if the Bengals do come up with the cash to support the guaranteed aspect that the agents will be sure to require, then what?  Will the team be so insolvent due to having all of their cash resources tied up in a few players that they won't be able to sign quality players to second and third contracts?

[BenZoo2]

(03-15-2023, 09:00 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: At least that is somewhat reassuring that the team must have recognized that playing the comp pick strategy was not a successful one to continue.  What is rather disturbing is that with the trend of new contracts including higher and higher percentages of guaranteed money and the Bengals unwillingness to offer those deals.  I'm pretty sure that I read last year that the reason they never came to terms with Jesse Bates, prior to using the franchise tag on him, was because they were unable to agree upon the guaranteed money aspect.  For a fan such as myself, this causes me to wonder if on the Bengals part if it is simply an unwillingness, or an inability to put the cash aside for these guaranteed contracts?

With 3 major contracts coming up in Burrow, Higgins and Chase, even if the Bengals do come up with the cash to support the guaranteed aspect that the agents will be sure to require, then what?  Will the team be so insolvent due to having all of their cash resources tied up in a few players that they won't be able to sign quality players to second and third contracts?

I’ve wondered the same thing. I think the owners will band together to come up with something to offset the escrow requirement or some type of limit to guaranteed money (how I don’t know).

I hope we don’t revert back to the comp pick game. They may be forced to to trade players for draft picks before they hit free agency, such as the reds and other small teams in baseball do. I hope it never gets to that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[*Nately120*]

(03-15-2023, 10:00 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I’ve wondered the same thing.  I think the owners will band together to come up with something to offset the escrow requirement or some type of limit to guaranteed money (how I don’t know).

I hope we don’t revert back to the comp pick game.  They may be forced to to trade players for draft picks before they hit free agency, such as the reds and other small teams in baseball do.  I hope it never gets to that.

Even though the NFL has a cap, it's entirely possible the next phase of NFL ownership winds up being the "haves vs the have nots" comparing teams recently purchased by ultra billionaires versus run of the mill owners who inherited the team from family who bought the team back in the old days.

If Mike Brown or other "football royal families" have to get into a spending war with the Wal Mart family or David Tepper or someone like Jeff Bezos, the tide may be turning. If the goal is to build brand equity by winning the SB and I'm a gazillionaire why would I want to strike a deal with some regular ol' football inheritance guy like Mike Brown or Al Davis' kid in order to level the playing field?

[THE PISTONS]

(03-15-2023, 10:13 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Even though the NFL has a cap, it's entirely possible the next phase of NFL ownership winds up being the "haves vs the have nots" comparing teams recently purchased by ultra billionaires versus run of the mill owners who inherited the team from family who bought the team back in the old days.

If Mike Brown or other "football royal families" have to get into a spending war with the Wal Mart family or David Tepper or someone like Jeff Bezos, the tide may be turning. If the goal is to build brand equity by winning the SB and I'm a gazillionaire why would I want to strike a deal with some regular ol' football inheritance guy like Mike Brown or Al Davis' kid in order to level the playing field?

College football has turned into that with the NIL deals.

[*Nately120*]

(03-15-2023, 10:18 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: College football has turned into that with the NIL deals.

When Cyndi Lauper said that money changes everything she wasn't just whistling dixie, girlfriend. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-15-2023, 08:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I did and that is insane.  I had no idea a team could get that many.  Who was their big loss?  I thought they got trade compensation for their DT that went to the Colts?  Side note, boy, do I bet he regrets that.  

If you have a minority coach or front office person who gets hired to be a Head Coach or GM, you get a 3rd round comp pick for two straight years. If you get a HC AND GM hired in the same year it's 3 straight years of 3rd round comp picks.

The last 4 years they've produced 3 minority HCs and 2 minority GMs. The GMs each in the same year as a HC. So that's like 14 3rd round comp picks. Now that's an interesting method to get comp picks. They can't be removed by signing people in FA, and they aren't part of the normal 4 comp pick per year limit. So you can still improve your team in FA and still get the comp picks.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-15-2023, 03:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you have a minority coach or front office person who gets hired to be a Head Coach or GM, you get a 3rd round comp pick for two straight years. If you get a HC AND GM hired in the same year it's 3 straight years of 3rd round comp picks.

The last 4 years they've produced 3 minority HCs and 2 minority GMs. The GMs each in the same year as a HC. So that's like 14 3rd round comp picks. Now that's an interesting method to get comp picks. They can't be removed by signing people in FA, and they aren't part of the normal 4 comp pick per year limit. So you can still improve your team in FA and still get the comp picks.

Wow.  Insane.  Thanks for the info

[phil413]

(03-15-2023, 03:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If you have a minority coach or front office person who gets hired to be a Head Coach or GM, you get a 3rd round comp pick for two straight years. If you get a HC AND GM hired in the same year it's 3 straight years of 3rd round comp picks.

The last 4 years they've produced 3 minority HCs and 2 minority GMs. The GMs each in the same year as a HC. So that's like 14 3rd round comp picks. Now that's an interesting method to get comp picks. They can't be removed by signing people in FA, and they aren't part of the normal 4 comp pick per year limit. So you can still improve your team in FA and still get the comp picks.

I didn't realize the system rewarded that high of compensation, multiple years.  14 3rds have a trade value chart of about 1400 (100 each) which equals the 8th overall pick in the draft....for free.  Thanks for the info.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-16-2023, 08:09 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wow.  Insane.  Thanks for the info

(03-16-2023, 08:23 AM)phil413 Wrote: I didn't realize the system rewarded that high of compensation, multiple years.  14 3rds have a trade value chart of about 1400 (100 each) which equals the 8th overall pick in the draft....for free.  Thanks for the info.  

Yeah, I guess the incentive is working, but it also has some unintended downside. Doubt it's a coincidence that 3/3 of the 49ers guys who got HC jobs are all in the AFC, and 1/2 of the GMs are in the AFC (with the one in the NFC going to the Commanders, who don't view the 49ers as a rival/threat because they stink). Not too many NFC teams lining up to give the 49ers free 3rd round picks.

I know if I were the GM of the Bengals, unless the guy is the second coming of Bill Belichick I would refuse to hire any minority candidates from the Browns, Steelers, Ravens, Chiefs, or Bills because of this system of rewards. Giving your division rivals, or your biggest threats in the AFC multiple free 3rd round picks? Hard pass.

[*pally*]

With the Orlando Brown signing, the Bengals have lost the 3rd round Bates comp pick

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(03-16-2023, 02:34 PM)pally Wrote: With the Orlando Brown signing, the Bengals have lost the 3rd round Bates comp pick

I am OK with that. 

[Bengal Dude]

(03-16-2023, 02:34 PM)pally Wrote: With the Orlando Brown signing, the Bengals have lost the 3rd round Bates comp pick

Definitely a new day. Marvin and Co. preferred every comp pick they could get.

[TecmoBengals]

(03-16-2023, 02:47 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I am OK with that. 

Right on. Brown is significantly better than a meaningless third round comp pick.

[EatonFan]

I don't get the incentive thing. You hire the best coaches. Period. It's a bonus if they're a minority, but that shouldn't be there. In sports you prove your worth regardless of your eye color.

[Ell Prez]

(03-16-2023, 08:47 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah, I guess the incentive is working, but it also has some unintended downside. Doubt it's a coincidence that 3/3 of the 49ers guys who got HC jobs are all in the AFC, and 1/2 of the GMs are in the AFC (with the one in the NFC going to the Commanders, who don't view the 49ers as a rival/threat because they stink). Not too many NFC teams lining up to give the 49ers free 3rd round picks.

I know if I were the GM of the Bengals, unless the guy is the second coming of Bill Belichick I would refuse to hire any minority candidates from the Browns, Steelers, Ravens, Chiefs, or Bills because of this system of rewards. Giving your division rivals, or your biggest threats in the AFC multiple free 3rd round picks? Hard pass.

If you think a coach will be a great coach for your franchise, he will far out produce what a 3rd round comp will for a rival.

Who has been more valuable, Zac Taylor to the Bengals, or DeMarvin Leal for the Steelers (a 3rd round pick, but not comp.)?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-19-2023, 11:23 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: If you think a coach will be a great coach for your franchise, he will far out produce what a 3rd round comp will for a rival.

That's why I said unless he's the second coming of Bill Belichick. If it's a matter of hiring Mike McDaniel from a division rival or Brian Daboll and both are solid choices with no significant gap between the two, I am going to choose the one that doesn't help a rival.

It's not just a 3rd round comp pick. It's a minimum of 2, potentially 3. The coach or GM better be a whole level above the other candidates for me to help out my rivals like that.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-16-2023, 08:47 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah, I guess the incentive is working, but it also has some unintended downside. Doubt it's a coincidence that 3/3 of the 49ers guys who got HC jobs are all in the AFC, and 1/2 of the GMs are in the AFC (with the one in the NFC going to the Commanders, who don't view the 49ers as a rival/threat because they stink). Not too many NFC teams lining up to give the 49ers free 3rd round picks.

I know if I were the GM of the Bengals, unless the guy is the second coming of Bill Belichick I would refuse to hire any minority candidates from the Browns, Steelers, Ravens, Chiefs, or Bills because of this system of rewards. Giving your division rivals, or your biggest threats in the AFC multiple free 3rd round picks? Hard pass.

Agreed.   Classic example of right intent, wrong outcome.  

[Speedy Thomas]

(03-15-2023, 12:07 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Can't agree more, Ocho.


All Bengals Comp Picks since 1994 when it became a thing...

'94: 3rd- Steve Shine
'98: 7th- Damian Vaughn
'99: 7th- Scott Covington, Donald Broomfield
'03: 7th- Elton Patterson
'04: 3rd- Landon Johnson
'07: 7th- Chinedum Ndukwe
'08: 3rd- Andre Caldwell / 6th- Matt Sherry / 7th- Angelo Craig, Mario Urrutia
'09: 3rd- Chase Coffman / 6th- Bernard Scott / 7th- Clinton McDonald, Freddie Brown
'10: 3rd- Brandon Ghee / 4th- Rodderick Muckleroy
'11: 7th- Jay Finley
'13: 7th- Reid Fragel, TJ Johnson
'14: 6th- Marquis Flowers / 7th- Lavelle Westbrooks
'15: 3rd- Paul Dawson / 4th- Marcus Hardison
'17: 4th- Ryan Glasgow / 5th- JJ Dielman / 7th- Mason Schreck
'18: 5th- Darius Phillips / 7th- Rod Taylor, Auden Tate
'19: 4th- Michael Jordan / 6th- Deshaun Davis, Rodney Anderson
'22: 4th- D'Ante Smith

Chase, get a base!


- - - - - - - -

Yeah, I will take participating in FA every single time over comp picks. When Landon Johnson almost 20 years ago is your best result, just sign actual NFL caliber players now. Not to mention you're making your team worse this year in order to potentially get picks next year, and it's certainly not time to be dicking around with that now. Win now.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-17-2023, 01:21 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Definitely a new day. Marvin and Co. preferred every comp pick they could get.

In fairness to Marvin he was never allowed to greatly participate in FA, let alone sign an Orlando Brown. So he had to rely on drafting players with a 4 person scouting "department". A lot easier when you operate like an actual NFL franchise and can just go out and sign an Orlando Brown, Ted Karras, Alex Cappa, DJ Reader, Trey Hendrickson, Chidobe Awuzie, etc.