Hypothetical Cap if we cut or trade players

[CincyWestside]

I saw this tweet by Jake Liscow.

So in a hypothetical where we trade Jonah and cut Mixon there would still be the possibility of close to $30M still in the cap. I am not sure if he is figuring LC in that or not.

The big wave of FA is pretty much over. So I don't see that money going toward any impactful FA for this season. Plus I think the Bengals are coveting the comp picks they could still receive from our FAs lost.

In my limited understanding of how the salary cap works, I thought we could carry some of it over to next year, correct? I would think that would be the most ideal in this scenario to help offset any big cap hits in the Higgins and Burrow extensions.

Otherwise, could you just rework some contracts like Hendrickson or Brown Jr. to further front load their cap hits to this season and reduce them in the future when we have to pay Burrow, Higgins, Chase, and Wilson?

It seems like the Bengals could go either way. Old-school Mike Brown would stick with both Jonah and Mixon. Even if overpriced, it seemed like the selling point of the past Bengals' culture was that players got their contracts paid regardless of performance and team makeup. Plus there was the Carson Palmer situation similar to Jonah's now in which MB stuck to his guns until an impossible offer came up. However, I feel like new school Bengals with Katie and Duke would work with Jonah to either get a decent trade or convince him to play RT as well as keeping Mixon but at a reduced rate.

All in all, it seems like with or without them, there is still some decent cap to play with it. What can/will they do with it whether it be $9M or $30M?

[BengalBob]

The way they handle the Mixon situation will be telling.

IMO, the front office has made unbelievable strides in the management of this football team.

If they don't restructure his deal, it will be major alarm bells for me.

[THE PISTONS]

IF they cut Mixon, who would be the RB?

Free agency is kind of picked over. Drafting a RB in the 1st Round is kind of a waste and likely the top guy is gone by our pick.

[Luvnit2]

Bengals have around 18 million left in 2023 cap space.
Williams trade would net 12.6 million, so 30.6 million if just trade Jonah.
Mixon 2023 Cap:
Joe Mixon RB $9,400,000 $2,000,000 $411,754 - $200,000 $750,000 - ($5,500,000) $12,761,754 5.63

If cut or traded, 5.5 million dead cap, but net of 7.2 million in 2023, so now 37.8 million.
Mixon also under contract in 2024:Joe Mixon RB $9,683,205 $2,000,000 $500,000 - $200,000 $750,000 - ($2,750,000) $13,133,205
Cap Hit / Club
4.64

So since dead money was taken in my scenario in 2023, entire 13.1 million would cap savings in 2024.

Mixon makes a ton of money, I see us trying to restructure his deal or ask him to take a pay cut. If not, I don't see him being a Bengal in 2024, but I do see him staying for 2024.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-21-2023, 12:25 PM)BengalBob Wrote: The way they handle the Mixon situation will be telling.

IMO, the front office has made unbelievable strides in the management of this football team.

If they don't restructure his deal, it will be major alarm bells for me.

Restructuring isn't the same thing as a pay cut. Restructuring pushes cap hits into later years, which means you're either committing to Mixon for more years, or you're getting ready for some dead cap space from him later. Neither is a good plan for an overpaid RB that is underperforming.

[Nepa]

(03-21-2023, 12:31 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bengals have around 18 million left in 2023 cap space.
Williams trade would net 12.6 million, so 30.6 million if just trade Jonah.

***

It does seem like quite a bit of cap space left.

I was reading an article about the Buffalo Bills and thought it was quite insightful on the cap situation. I just don't know how much cap needs to be reserved for (1) practice squad players; (2) 2023 draft picks, and (3) costs for potential injuries.

From the article: 

"Beane said the Bills will have about $9 million in cap space once everything is processed with some of that needing to be reserved for things like the practice squad (about $3.5 million last year), the team’s 2023 draft picks, and costs for potential injuries.

In other words, the Bills don't have much to work with unless they restructure more contracts . . . It's something Beane said he’s not against doing “but the more you do, then the bigger that avalanche gets years down the line.” 


Coming off the cap going down with COVID, we're trying to work our way out so that we don't have just a teardown, . . .," Beane said. "Just like, 'Man, we can't do anymore. We gotta get rid of some of these huge salaries,' and the only way to do it is either try to kick it further down the road, making it harder, or start trading, releasing, and taking those hits. So, we're trying not to do that."



https://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/37925/where-the-bills-stand-ahead-of-free-agencys-second-wave-and-what-could-be-next

[Graphicguy]

One way or the other, if Mixon doesn’t restructure, we’re drafting a RB…maybe sooner than later.

[*ochocincos*]

There are still some FAs out there that would be worth adding.
They might have to be willing to be a backup/rotational player though, as the starters other than TE and (short-term) RT seem to be rather set.
RB and RT become more open depending on what they do with Mixon and Jonah.
I'd like to see a TE added, if anything to be a stopgap starter while an early draft pick acclimates.
I don't know if they'd do it, but one additional rotational pass rusher would help. That might be something worth just drafting though.

I think they'll get another couple more guys and see where they are with the cap.
Having the extra cap will help for extensions, but they shouldn't cut Mixon and trade Jonah just for more cap for extensions.
They should have an eye on winning it all this year, and moving on from Jonah and/or Mixon means yet another hole to replace.
Jonah will be off the books after this year and Mixon for sure after 2024 if not after this season, so not a huge deal if their cap is freed up this season based how much they still have to work with.

[BengalBob]

(03-21-2023, 12:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Restructuring isn't the same thing as a pay cut. Restructuring pushes cap hits into later years, which means you're either committing to Mixon for more years, or you're getting ready for some dead cap space from him later. Neither is a good plan for an overpaid RB that is underperforming.

You're right.

I meant to say pay cut.

[Weazzel80]

I expect us to use a lot of that money after the draft. Signing free agents will no longer count for comp picks starting on May 2. We are currently projected to get a 5th and a 6th and it's been a long time since we've had any so I expect the front office to hold onto them.

Any released players should be on our radar too, And don't rule out the Bengals making a player for player trade with Jonah Williams.

[Luvnit2]

(03-21-2023, 12:58 PM)Nepa Wrote: It does seem like quite a bit of cap space left.

I was reading an article about the Buffalo Bills and thought it was quite insightful on the cap situation. I just don't know how much cap needs to be reserved for (1) practice squad players; (2) 2023 draft picks, and (3) costs for potential injuries.

From the article: 

"Beane said the Bills will have about $9 million in cap space once everything is processed with some of that needing to be reserved for things like the practice squad (about $3.5 million last year), the team’s 2023 draft picks, and costs for potential injuries.

In other words, the Bills don't have much to work with unless they restructure more contracts . . . It's something Beane said he’s not against doing “but the more you do, then the bigger that avalanche gets years down the line.” 


Coming off the cap going down with COVID, we're trying to work our way out so that we don't have just a teardown, . . .," Beane said. "Just like, 'Man, we can't do anymore. We gotta get rid of some of these huge salaries,' and the only way to do it is either try to kick it further down the road, making it harder, or start trading, releasing, and taking those hits. So, we're trying not to do that."



https://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/37925/where-the-bills-stand-ahead-of-free-agencys-second-wave-and-what-could-be-next

Only top 51 players count towards cap. So practice players have zero impact on cap dollars. Draft picks for 2023 are already counted based on us having 7 picks, so the cap numbers I presented are calculating our signed players plus all of our draft picks.

CINCINNATI BENGALS CAP TOTALS

• Adjusted Salary Cap
  $226,608,736
• Active Contracts:
  $216,175,787Dead Cap:
• $619,060
  
  2022 Rollover:
• $2,498,443
  
  Total (All):
• $216,794,847
  
  Total (Top 51):
• $208,304,847
  
  Est. Cap Space (All):
• $9,813,889
  
  Est. Cap Space (Top 51):
• $18,303,889
  
  

[THE PISTONS]

(03-21-2023, 12:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Restructuring isn't the same thing as a pay cut. Restructuring pushes cap hits into later years, which means you're either committing to Mixon for more years, or you're getting ready for some dead cap space from him later. Neither is a good plan for an overpaid RB that is underperforming.

The thing the OP was saying restructure to push more of the cap hit of those players salaries to THIS season...where we have the cap space.

I think it's an interesting idea. One con is that maybe players have more of an incentive to hold out in coming years.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-21-2023, 01:22 PM)Weazzel80 Wrote: I expect us to use a lot of that money after the draft. Signing free agents will no longer count for comp picks starting on May 2. We are currently projected to get a 5th and a 6th and it's been a long time since we've had any so I expect the front office to hold onto them.

Any released players should be on our radar too, And don't rule out the Bengals making a player for player trade with Jonah Williams.

Well there will be post June cuts too.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

We have around $20 mil in cap space ATM, assuming Brandin Wilson is gone. With 50 guys signed who were on our 53/figure to be this year. If we sign Apple (vet CB), a vet DE, Allen, and a cheap TE we are probably talking $12 mil vs the cap. Adding Burrow's extension signing bonus back in, it takes ys close to the cap

If we cut Mixon (post June 1) and release Jonah, that would be another $22 mil. Collins, pist June 1, would free up $7 mil.

The issue is, what do we do with that cash? Does that make our team better this year? And does it preserve the ability for us to extend our other core guys (Higgins,,L. Wilson, etc.). I do not see any big money FAs worth spending all that cap space on. That could change, of course, if the Titans cut Byard.

I do not see us cutting Collins with Jonah's future iffy. Nor do I see us trading Jonah while Collins' return is questionable. We cannot risk losing BOTH guys. Neither do I see us cutting Mixon with Perine gone. A Godfather offer for Jonah would change my thinking, but I think it extremely unlikely we get one.

I think we look at re-signing Apple & Allen. A cheap TE/vet DE. Maybe Flowers and Wilcox/Sample. And we are done heading into the draft.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-21-2023, 12:16 PM)CincyWestside Wrote: I saw this tweet by Jake Liscow.

So in a hypothetical where we trade Jonah and cut Mixon there would still be the possibility of close to $30M still in the cap. I am not sure if he is figuring LC in that or not.

The big wave of FA is pretty much over. So I don't see that money going toward any impactful FA for this season. Plus I think the Bengals are coveting the comp picks they could still receive from our FAs lost.

In my limited understanding of how the salary cap works, I thought we could carry some of it over to next year, correct? I would think that would be the most ideal in this scenario to help offset any big cap hits in the Higgins and Burrow extensions.

Otherwise, could you just rework some contracts like Hendrickson or Brown Jr. to further front load their cap hits to this season and reduce them in the future when we have to pay Burrow, Higgins, Chase, and Wilson?

It seems like the Bengals could go either way. Old-school Mike Brown would stick with both Jonah and Mixon. Even if overpriced, it seemed like the selling point of the past Bengals' culture was that players got their contracts paid regardless of performance and team makeup. Plus there was the Carson Palmer situation similar to Jonah's now in which MB stuck to his guns until an impossible offer came up. However, I feel like new school Bengals with Katie and Duke would work with Jonah to either get a decent trade or convince him to play RT as well as keeping Mixon but at a reduced rate.

All in all, it seems like with or without them, there is still some decent cap to play with it. What can/will they do with it whether it be $9M or $30M?

(03-21-2023, 12:31 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Bengals have around 18 million left in 2023 cap space.
Williams trade would net 12.6 million, so 30.6 million if just trade Jonah.
Mixon 2023 Cap:
Joe Mixon RB $9,400,000 $2,000,000 $411,754 - $200,000 $750,000 - ($5,500,000) $12,761,754 5.63

If cut or traded, 5.5 million dead cap, but net of 7.2 million in 2023, so now 37.8 million.
Mixon also under contract in 2024:Joe Mixon RB $9,683,205 $2,000,000 $500,000 - $200,000 $750,000 - ($2,750,000) $13,133,205
Cap Hit / Club
4.64

So since dead money was taken in my scenario in 2023, entire 13.1 million would cap savings in 2024.

Mixon makes a ton of money, I see us trying to restructure his deal or ask him to take a pay cut. If not, I don't see him being a Bengal in 2024, but I do see him staying for 2024.

They aren’t cutting Mixon this year. If Samaje had any inkling he’d stayed. Mixon next year much smaller cap hit. I think it’s possible Mixon is restructured but not for sure.

[*Go Cards*]

There will still be June cuts and more cuts when teams have to get down to the 53 man roster as well.

There will still be a good players available to those that have cap space that are not available now.

just like if Bengals release Mixon in June when the cap hit drops, some team will pounce.

[casear2727]

I think all of you guys are way too high...

Of course Hobson has us having no money but still, it is much closer to 10M...

Just want to correct this picture of the Bengals cap.

The $9.8M below includes -all- contracts. Top 53 cap space is ~$15M.

The $7.6M rookie pool is offset by contracts pushed off the top 53. They need $5.6M for rookies AND practice squad.

Can do another $10M cap spend on vets. https://t.co/5RElBmG4ib pic.twitter.com/yhKMg7m8r1

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) March 21, 2023

[Luvnit2]

(03-22-2023, 02:53 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I think all of you guys are way too high...

Of course Hobson has us having no money but still, it is much closer to 10M...

Just want to correct this picture of the Bengals cap.

The $9.8M below includes -all- contracts. Top 53 cap space is ~$15M.

The $7.6M rookie pool is offset by contracts pushed off the top 53. They need $5.6M for rookies AND practice squad.

Can do another $10M cap spend on vets. https://t.co/5RElBmG4ib pic.twitter.com/yhKMg7m8r1

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) March 21, 2023

Jake had me reading until he started discussing practice players. Only the Top 51 salaries count against the cap. The 18 million is accurate or a lot closer than 10 million left. He also top 53, again it is Top 51. It appears he is not caught up on how the cap is calculated. Over the cap figures account for us getting 7 draft picks (included already in Top 51) also.

[Nepa]

(03-22-2023, 10:37 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Jake had me reading until he started discussing practice players. Only the Top 51 salaries count against the cap. The 18 million is accurate or a lot closer than 10 million left. He also top 53, again it is Top 51. It appears he is not caught up on how the cap is calculated. Over the cap figures account for us getting 7 draft picks (included already in Top 51) also.

The Buffalo Bills Brandon Beane is referenced by an ESPN author as saying cap space needs to be reserved for practice squad players. I'm not sure why the author states this. Perhaps the author just threw in his own interpretation?

"Beane said the Bills will have about $9 million in cap space once everything is processed with some of that needing to be reserved for things like the practice squad (about $3.5 million last year), the team’s 2023 draft picks, and costs for potential injuries.


https://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/37925/where-the-bills-stand-ahead-of-free-agencys-second-wave-and-what-could-be-next

[IronTiger]

So I'm not sure I understand all that's involved but is there any way Mixon and Williams could be traded for Austin Eckeler of the Chargers? Sorry if this is posted in the wrong spot.