Update On Burrow's Extension

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

Am I the only one that gets annoyed to see this thread jump back up only for it to be defensive back discussion? Lol

[*bfine32*]

Total speculation, but at least it's about the Burrow extension:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076797-pft-joe-burrow-most-likely-to-be-1st-nfl-qb-get-contract-protection-based-on-cap?src=rss

Quote:Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow could be the next player to establish a new standard in NFL contracts and seek a percentage of his team's salary cap rather than a fixed monetary figure

Pat Kirwan has always asked when this will happen and why it hasn't yet. 

[XenoMorph]

(05-21-2023, 10:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Total speculation, but at least it's about the Burrow extension:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076797-pft-joe-burrow-most-likely-to-be-1st-nfl-qb-get-contract-protection-based-on-cap?src=rss
Pat Kirwan has always asked when this will happen and why it hasn't yet. 

Makes a lot of sense....  That way the team will always know what % of cap is available for everyone else. 

Especially if they want a contract longer than 5 years.

[KillerGoose]

(05-21-2023, 10:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Total speculation, but at least it's about the Burrow extension:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076797-pft-joe-burrow-most-likely-to-be-1st-nfl-qb-get-contract-protection-based-on-cap?src=rss
Pat Kirwan has always asked when this will happen and why it hasn't yet. 

This would be a fantastic deal for Burrow. I wonder if the reason it hasn't happened yet is because it isn't as advantageous for franchises? For instance, looking at Mahomes' contract, he will have a $44MM cap hit in 2026. If the Chiefs keep his contract as is, that is likely to be a massive bargain at that point. Hell, it already is, really. 

It would allow Burrow to do something like 22%-23% of cap, which would seem very fair initially from an AAV standpoint but he would probably pretty consistently be one of the highest paid QB's in the league, if not the highest paid. For example, 23% of cap this year would $51MM. Next year, with a projected cap of $256MM, his value would go up to $59MM. In reality, his extension would kick in during the 2025 season, where his value would be $62MM AAV with a projected cap of $272MM. 

It all just depends on what percentage Burrow would ask for. He could go lower and it would feel like a bargain initially but then he would pretty quickly rise to being one of the highest paid. 

[ElkValleyBengal]

I wouldn't be a big fan of that approach. Great for the player, but a perpetual set of handcuffs for the team. Unless Burrow takes under current market value, as KillerGoose alluded to.

[007BengalsFan]

(05-22-2023, 10:51 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: It would allow Burrow to do something like 22%-23% of cap, which would seem very fair initially from an AAV standpoint but he would probably pretty consistently be one of the highest paid QB's in the league, if not the highest paid. For example, 23% of cap this year would $51MM. Next year, with a projected cap of $256MM, his value would go up to $59MM. In reality, his extension would kick in during the 2025 season, where his value would be $62MM AAV with a projected cap of $272MM. 

22%-23% would be an absolute horrible deal for the Bengals and football in general.  It would be as bad as the Cleveland Watson deal.  The reason these big QB contracts work for teams is because they start out high and gradually take up less space as the contract moves further out and the cap goes up.  22%-23% would be starting out high at 51 -52 million per year then staying high and going higher.  You wouldnt ever get relief and more cap room from the QB contract as years went on.   The Bengals would be in much better shape making Burrow the highest paid QB in the NFL at 53 million a year on a regular contract.  Its like front loading a contract knowing in the coming years you would have a larger percentage of the cap for other players.  Sticking the contract at a 22% - 23% is just a horrible idea.  You are guaranteeing the QB will take up a huge percentage on the salary cap every single year instead of getting relief in later years.

[*bfine32*]

(05-22-2023, 01:44 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: 22%-23% would be an absolute horrible deal for the Bengals and football in general.  It would be as bad as the Cleveland Watson deal.  The reason these big QB contracts work for teams is because they start out high and gradually take up less space as the contract moves further out and the cap goes up.  22%-23% would be starting out high at 51 -52 million per year then staying high and going higher.  You wouldnt ever get relief and more cap room from the QB contract as years went on.   The Bengals would be in much better shape making Burrow the highest paid QB in the NFL at 53 million a year on a regular contract.  Its like front loading a contract knowing in the coming years you would have a larger percentage of the cap for other players.  Sticking the contract at a 22% - 23% is just a horrible idea.  You are guaranteeing the QB will take up a huge percentage on the salary cap every single year instead of getting relief in later years.

That's not necessarily (or even generally) true.

For instance, Hurts just signed a 5-year extension. The first year of the extension costs $13.5 Mil against the Cap, the last year of the contract costs $54.1 Mil against it. 

[WeezyBengal]

(05-22-2023, 10:51 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: This would be a fantastic deal for Burrow. I wonder if the reason it hasn't happened yet is because it isn't as advantageous for franchises? For instance, looking at Mahomes' contract, he will have a $44MM cap hit in 2026. If the Chiefs keep his contract as is, that is likely to be a massive bargain at that point. Hell, it already is, really. 

It would allow Burrow to do something like 22%-23% of cap, which would seem very fair initially from an AAV standpoint but he would probably pretty consistently be one of the highest paid QB's in the league, if not the highest paid. For example, 23% of cap this year would $51MM. Next year, with a projected cap of $256MM, his value would go up to $59MM. In reality, his extension would kick in during the 2025 season, where his value would be $62MM AAV with a projected cap of $272MM. 

It all just depends on what percentage Burrow would ask for. He could go lower and it would feel like a bargain initially but then he would pretty quickly rise to being one of the highest paid. 

There's a way to set it up where it benefits both team and player. 

[007BengalsFan]

(05-22-2023, 02:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That's not necessarily (or even generally) true.

For instance, Hurts just signed a 5-year extension. The first year of the extension costs $13.5 Mil against the Cap, the last year of the contract costs $54.1 Mil against it. 

of course contracts can go both up and down depending if you front load them or back load them or whatever other different ways teams move around them.  I was speaking about the cost per year average throughout the contract.  If the Bengals sign Burrow at a 53 million per year average his hit to the cap over the lifetime of the contract is going to be less than paying him 22%-23% where it will do nothing but rise unless you think the NFLs salary cap is going to fall below its current level.   You would be paying Burrow at the top level right now at an average of 51-52 million per year and then raising that average every year.  22%-23% is a horrible idea.

[IndyTiger]

(05-22-2023, 02:17 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: of course contracts can go both up and down depending if you front load them or back load them or whatever other different ways teams move around them.  I was speaking about the cost per year average throughout the contract.  If the Bengals sign Burrow at a 53 million per year average his hit to the cap over the lifetime of the contract is going to be less than paying him 22%-23% where it will do nothing but rise unless you think the NFLs salary cap is going to fall below its current level.   You would be paying Burrow at the top level right now at an average of 51-52 million per year and then raising that average every year.  22%-23% is a horrible idea.

What about a lower percentage, but 100% guaranteed?  If you make your quarterback the highest paid player in the game based on this type of contract, then somewhere down the road, you may end up overpaying or hamstringing the team.   

DeSean Watson set the market, and obviously, the Browns went too high with him.   From this point, maybe teams start slowing down the increases to QBs and give more consideration to other players.   Right now, it's a quarterbacks league, but somewhere down the line, someone is going to win the Super Bowl with a game manager like Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer and spend money on the overall roster and not just the QB - the model is going to change.

What could keep the model of having a stud QB going is if Pro Bowlers at non-premium positions take less money to join a roster with a stud QB.  A team with someone like Gino Smith, Jared Goff, or Mac Jones will need to get some superstar talent spread out over the roster to compete for the SB.   If you have Jared Goff, you can upgrade at 4-5 other positions to create an overall roster to compete.  Players may not want to hitch their saddle to a team with Jaret Goff at QB, unless money is their top priority.

[KillerGoose]

(05-22-2023, 01:44 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: 22%-23% would be an absolute horrible deal for the Bengals and football in general.  It would be as bad as the Cleveland Watson deal.  The reason these big QB contracts work for teams is because they start out high and gradually take up less space as the contract moves further out and the cap goes up.  22%-23% would be starting out high at 51 -52 million per year then staying high and going higher.  You wouldnt ever get relief and more cap room from the QB contract as years went on.   The Bengals would be in much better shape making Burrow the highest paid QB in the NFL at 53 million a year on a regular contract.  Its like front loading a contract knowing in the coming years you would have a larger percentage of the cap for other players.  Sticking the contract at a 22% - 23% is just a horrible idea.  You are guaranteeing the QB will take up a huge percentage on the salary cap every single year instead of getting relief in later years.

Sure, I agree. That was essentially what I was alluding to in my post. However, if you drop it to a lower percentage, then it ends up with Burrow making less money. You can drop it to 20% and now Burrow is making $45MM. That's definitely below his market value and would continue to be the case as the cap rises and normal QB contracts rise. Is he fine with that? Maybe so, but I tend to doubt it. Maybe they could make it very highly guaranteed to offset the cash value being below his market value.

The whole point of my post was "maybe the reason that teams haven't done this is because it isn't advantageous for the franchise". Or, at least, as advantageous. 

[007BengalsFan]

(05-22-2023, 03:15 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Sure, I agree. That was essentially what I was alluding to in my post. However, if you drop it to a lower percentage, then it ends up with Burrow making less money. You can drop it to 20% and now Burrow is making $45MM. That's definitely below his market value and would continue to be the case as the cap rises and normal QB contracts rise. Is he fine with that? Maybe so, but I tend to doubt it. Maybe they could make it very highly guaranteed to offset the cash value being below his market value.

The whole point of my post was "maybe the reason that teams haven't done this is because it isn't advantageous for the franchise". Or, at least, as advantageous. 

Obviously its not advantageous to the franchise.   When your 2 choices are to pay a QB an average of 53 million a year over the lifetime of the contract or start off his salary at 51 million and keep raising that amount every year by millions of dollars, the second option isnt really an option.

[KillerGoose]

(05-22-2023, 03:43 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Obviously its not advantageous to the franchise.   When your 2 choices are to pay a QB an average of 53 million a year over the lifetime of the contract or start off his salary at 51 million and keep raising that amount every year by millions of dollars, the second option isnt really an option.

Yes. That is what I was ultimately getting at. 

[BFritz21]

(05-22-2023, 01:44 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: 22%-23% would be an absolute horrible deal for the Bengals and football in general.  It would be as bad as the Cleveland Watson deal.  The reason these big QB contracts work for teams is because they start out high and gradually take up less space as the contract moves further out and the cap goes up.  22%-23% would be starting out high at 51 -52 million per year then staying high and going higher.  You wouldnt ever get relief and more cap room from the QB contract as years went on.   The Bengals would be in much better shape making Burrow the highest paid QB in the NFL at 53 million a year on a regular contract.  Its like front loading a contract knowing in the coming years you would have a larger percentage of the cap for other players.  Sticking the contract at a 22% - 23% is just a horrible idea.  You are guaranteeing the QB will take up a huge percentage on the salary cap every single year instead of getting relief in later years.

I'm seeing giving him a percentage of the salary cap as a new talking point in Burrow's negotiations. 

You have a point about taking up a bigger chunk of the cap every year but it might be our best bet to keep Burrow happy and keep him from handcuffing the team.

I think that's our best bet and a way to keep him happy and keep our organization functioning because, if you think about it, he's the secret to our success and having him take a portion of our overall spending helps us pay him what he's worth. 

He's actually smart if he does that because his salary keeps going up and we're able keep surrounding him with talent to let him succeed and also stay healthy.

[gman657]

(05-21-2023, 10:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Total speculation, but at least it's about the Burrow extension:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076797-pft-joe-burrow-most-likely-to-be-1st-nfl-qb-get-contract-protection-based-on-cap?src=rss
Pat Kirwan has always asked when this will happen and why it hasn't yet. 

mike Florio has been banging the drum for this type of contract for long time. He has some weird obsession with it. Reading that article all it says is Joe burrow is type.of player who might ask for that. No indication he has askwd.for this. Just florio being florio. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-22-2023, 09:04 PM)gman657 Wrote: mike Florio has been banging the drum for this type of contract for long time. He has some weird obsession with it. Reading that article all it says is Joe burrow is type.of player who might ask for that. No indication he has askwd.for this. Just florio being florio. 

It's why I said "total speculation". 

[007BengalsFan]

(05-22-2023, 05:40 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm seeing giving him a percentage of the salary cap as a new talking point in Burrow's negotiations. 

You have a point about taking up a bigger chunk of the cap every year but it might be our best bet to keep Burrow happy and keep him from handcuffing the team.

I think that's our best bet and a way to keep him happy and keep our organization functioning because, if you think about it, he's the secret to our success and having him take a portion of our overall spending helps us pay him what he's worth. 

He's actually smart if he does that because his salary keeps going up and we're able keep surrounding him with talent to let him succeed and also stay healthy.

Giving him a large salary then giving him an even larger salary the next year then even more the next year doesnt help the team.  If you want to talk about handcuffing the team a percentage contract would do just that.  Instead of just signing Burrow as the highest paid QB getting 53 million for each of the next six years, he would be getting paid something like 51 million, 53 million, 56 million, 60 million, 65 million, 65million instead of the 53 million every year.  How does that help the team and not handcuff them when thats millions that could be spent on other players?   I cant believe anyone would think this is a good idea other than Burrow's agent.

[Joelist]

I still like what I suggested upthread. Burrow signs for 7 years at vet minimum guaranteed. He is at the same time hired as GM on a 7 year no cut contract at a salary of 55 million a year. Just seeing the reactions from the league and the sports media would be worth it.