What are we doing with our remaining cap space?

[Luvnit2]

(04-14-2023, 02:16 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The Bengals currently have about 17 million in cap space. Thats 10th in the league. They've done this without really restructing many, if at any, contracts or by really cutting any salary.

That's a decent amount of cap space but many speculate we can open up around an aditional 10 million by cutting Joe Mixon, putting the Bengals at around 27 million in cap space. This would put us in the top 3-5 in the league.

We need about 8 million in cap for the rookie class, so that would put us at about 9 million without cutting Mixon or 19 million if we were to cut Mixon.

The options that I can come up with on how to use the remaining cap are these:

1. Roll the remaining cap over for future years.
2. Use the cap as a signing bonus for a players contract extension (Tee)?
3. Sign an aditional FA to help this year.

So, what do you all think is the plan for the remaining cap space?

The cap space of around 16.5 million has projected rookie contracts already.

My mistake, the Spotrac numbers do not include rookie contract projections.

[Ell Prez]

(04-14-2023, 03:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Maybe, but the Bengals aren't one of the teams that give high guaranteed money.
I could only see him choosing to stay with the Bengals over a better offer elsewhere if he's really doing it to get a ring.

We really need to stop with the narrative that player X is going to sign for less because he wants to play with the Bengals to chase a ring. It doesn’t happen. Players 9/10 go for the money. It’s business.

[007BengalsFan]

(04-14-2023, 02:44 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: ...I still want us to extend the Gravedigger too man. This guy single handedly 
shut down the run game of opposing Offenses last year in huge games. I don't know if we make it to the Super Bowl or the AFCC without
him in all those close games.

We dont make it to the Super Bowl or AFCC without Reader.  In the playoff game against Baltimore when we stuffed them at the goal line forcing Huntley to try and reach over top who do the fans think was in the middle of the D line preventing a big shove from Baltimore from pushing it in? Without Reader this team doesnt make it past Baltimore.   You cant say we will just pickup someone else to take over that spot.  Who are you going to get? There is nobody in the NFL that is as good as Reader stuffing the run game. 

Do we also not remember the one big butt whooping we got this year?  When Reader was injured and we had to face a good running team like Cleveland without Reader, they ran the ball for 172 yards and just destroyed the Bengals defense.  That didnt happen the second game against Cleveland when Reader was back.  Reader is a huge reason teams cant run the ball down our throat like Cleveland did the first game.  Without Reader its much easier to do and the Bengals defense isnt as effective.  We have to extend Reader.  A 3 year extension shouldnt be too bad.

[George Cantstandya]

(04-14-2023, 07:07 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The cap space of around 16.5 million has projected rookie contracts already.

From Spotrac

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

Quote:2023 Projected Draft Pool Cap


Estimated cap dollars necessary to sign upcoming draft picks (not included in the cap figure yet)

[PDub80]

(04-14-2023, 08:02 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: We really need to stop with the narrative that player X is going to sign for less because he wants to play with the Bengals to chase a ring. It doesn’t happen. Players 9/10 go for the money. It’s business.

Germaine Pratt has entered the chat....

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-14-2023, 08:55 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: From Spotrac

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

In fairness it also says there that the Bengals don't need almost $8m for rookies, with a Top-51 cap hit of $4.8m.

Bengals already have 68 guys under contract. For every one they add in the draft, another guy gets kicked out of the top-51.

[George Cantstandya]

(04-14-2023, 09:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: In fairness it also says there that the Bengals don't need almost $8m for rookies, with a Top-51 cap hit of $4.8m.

Bengals already have 68 guys under contract. For every one they add in the draft, another guy gets kicked out of the top-51.

But I'm just saying it doesn't include that in the current projection at this point.  Right now the projection includes current contracts and dead money.  Showing cap space for all current contacts and dead money at 3.7 million and cap space for top 51 contacts and dead money at 16.5 million.  Those numbers do not include the projected rookie contacts.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-14-2023, 09:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Germaine Pratt has entered the chat....

?

The Bengals made Germaine Pratt the highest paid 2-down non-pass-rushing LB in the league.

[PDub80]

(04-14-2023, 09:16 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: ?

The Bengals made Germaine Pratt the highest paid 2-down non-pass-rushing LB in the league.

Only, he isn't a 2 down LB.

He took less money to stay w the Bengals than he would have received elswhere.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-14-2023, 03:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It could also be his last contract though.

If it's your last potential multi-million dollar contract, wouldn't you try to take the highest offer possible if you weren't willing to sacrifice too much cheaper just to get a ring?

I understand that sentiment.
I think it's more or less up to Reader and what we do this year.

If he gets a ring this year.... no idea if he'd be content with that and say "pay me" or if he might want a legitimate shot at adding another to cement his legacy.
And if we don't get it, he could turn into a Ring chasing vet.. so never know, we just have to figure that out when we are ready to cross that bridge, and i'm pretty sure he loves being there and he knows we love him being here. It's just all up to him and what he wants. Either way, let's make sure he feels the love!

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-15-2023, 01:35 AM)PDub80 Wrote: Only, he isn't a 2 down LB.

He took less money to stay w the Bengals than he would have received elswhere.

Imagine if I played 3rd down all year ?? i would’ve went crazy ?

— Germaine Pratt (@GermainePratt7) February 26, 2023

How is he not a 2 down LB? Even by his own complaints multiple times he doesn't play 3rd downs. Maybe HE thinks he can become an every down LB, but that doesn't mean he is, or that the league views him as such.


Did he turn down more elsewhere? Because I never saw that report. The LB market was oversaturated this off-season and there were tons of 3-down LBs available. He doesn't play all downs, and he doesn't rush the passer. He is the highest paid player of that type. Overestimating your value, testing the market and finding out you aren't getting what you hoped before being brought back to reality is not the same as taking less to play here.

[Luvnit2]

(04-14-2023, 08:55 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: From Spotrac

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

TY for clarifying, so our estimated rookie draft cap costs for top 51 is 4.8 million. So, we only have around 11.5 million left. If we cut Mixon post June 1st, we have additional cap space. Also, Wilson our safety who has can't stay healthy can be cut and we gain 2 million with no dead cap.

Other teams like the Ravens are in negative territory with cap space after the draft.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-14-2023, 08:02 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: We really need to stop with the narrative that player X is going to sign for less because he wants to play with the Bengals to chase a ring. It doesn’t happen. Players 9/10 go for the money. It’s business.

That's basically my point.
Why did Vonn Bell and Hurst go to CAR? CAR is essentially a rebuilding team. There's no way they are legit SB contenders.
They went because the Panthers gave them likely about the best offer in terms of guaranteed/overall money.
I'm sure both would have liked to stay with the Bengals if the (guaranteed) money would have been close.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-15-2023, 12:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That's basically my point.
Why did Vonn Bell and Hurst go to CAR? CAR is essentially a rebuilding team. There's no way they are legit SB contenders.
They went because the Panthers gave them likely about the best offer in terms of guaranteed/overall money.
I'm sure both would have liked to stay with the Bengals if the (guaranteed) money would have been close.

I’d imagine it’s also tied to contract length. The Bengals are trying to be make sure they have no restraints as these forthcoming contracts loom. But you are right top players most often take the money. In case of Hurst he finally wanted a legit deal and Bell was securing his future. The wanting to stay (versus join up with) and play for the Bengals is overrated. Now revamping careers is our sweet spot with free agents.

[bk42]

I'm assuming lots of it will be used in extending Tee, Joe and Logan. But I also wonder if players like Reader or Boyd would be open to extending by a year before starting this season. Big money contracts for Burrow and Chase are still another year or two out so maybe other 1 year extensions to a few who will be free agents next year? Maybe its a way to keep some of these guys together another year while using some of the cap room. And while I'd be excited for that, I'd also love to see an impact player added on a 1 year contract to really go after it this year (not sure such a player is out there at the moment)

[*ochocincos*]

(04-15-2023, 12:47 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’d imagine it’s also tied to contract length. The Bengals are trying to be make sure they have no restraints as these forthcoming contracts loom. But you are right top players most often take the money. In case of Hurst he finally wanted a legit deal and Bell was securing his future. The wanting to stay (versus join up with) and play for the Bengals is overrated. Now revamping careers is our sweet spot with free agents.

While I didn't call that out specifically in my post, I was incorporating that in when I said money.
But yes, also contract length.

[Ell Prez]

(04-14-2023, 09:04 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Germaine Pratt has entered the chat....

You sure an off the ball linebacker who only plays 1 and 2nd down is worth more than $7M? We signed him after FA started and we lost Bell. He was on the market and probably didn’t get much more.

[PDub80]

(04-15-2023, 12:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

Imagine if I played 3rd down all year ?? i would’ve went crazy ?

— Germaine Pratt (@GermainePratt7) February 26, 2023

How is he not a 2 down LB? Even by his own complaints multiple times he doesn't play 3rd downs. Maybe HE thinks he can become an every down LB, but that doesn't mean he is, or that the league views him as such.


Did he turn down more elsewhere? Because I never saw that report. The LB market was oversaturated this off-season and there were tons of 3-down LBs available. He doesn't play all downs, and he doesn't rush the passer. He is the highest paid player of that type. Overestimating your value, testing the market and finding out you aren't getting what you hoped before being brought back to reality is not the same as taking less to play here.

He didn't even seek elsewhere. Reports were that he would have gotten more, yes.

I get where he was coming from with the complaint. They started using him much more on 3rd downs after this tweet. I think the Bengals realized he could do more than the 2 downs and started testing those waters and got good results. I think you'll see Pratt in more on 3rd this season for sure.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(04-14-2023, 02:16 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The Bengals currently have about 17 million in cap space. Thats 10th in the league. They've done this without really restructing many, if at any, contracts or by really cutting any salary.

That's a decent amount of cap space but many speculate we can open up around an aditional 10 million by cutting Joe Mixon, putting the Bengals at around 27 million in cap space. This would put us in the top 3-5 in the league.

We need about 8 million in cap for the rookie class, so that would put us at about 9 million without cutting Mixon or 19 million if we were to cut Mixon.

The options that I can come up with on how to use the remaining cap are these:

1. Roll the remaining cap over for future years.
2. Use the cap as a signing bonus for a players contract extension (Tee)?
3. Sign an aditional FA to help this year.

So, what do you all think is the plan for the remaining cap space?

You got 2 of 3. I don't think there will be much rollover. Duke said we are spending to the cap. 

Well, first off, as others have said, your initial calculation is off on the rookie class. It won't use up $8 million, under $2 mil, total, max. Why? You cannot just add up the salaries of the picks (assuming they all make the roster) & subtract out the cap space. We have 67/68 guys currently signed, only a dozen on camp deals. That leaves 55/56, well above the 51 we use for the cap. Any rookie that makes the team is dispacing an already signed guy. So, the way to figure it is: 

Salary of rookie making team minus salary of guy dispaced from roster = amount to subtract from cap. Plus any dead cap of displaced player.

And note, this number could easily be NEGATIVE for everyone except the first rounder (unless they take the spot of Jonah, Colllins, or Mixon). Say we take a TE in Rd 2 (Musgrave, LaPorta) and they take Asiasi's roster spot. Musgrave, Smith, Sample is the TE room. Rd 2 pick makes $1,110,684. Asiasi makes $1,138,00. No dead cap. Our 2nd round pick making the roster just GAINED us cap space ($27,000). It did not cost us $1.1 mil. If a 5th-7th round guy makes the roster, you are almost assuredly gaining space. 2nd-4th is iffy. Depends on the displaced guy & their dead cap. 

I get so tired of having to explain this to people. In all the cap space/draft threads. I don't get why so many don't get it. I will keep chipping away, though.

But with what we have left: 

1) Some for signing bonuses for extensions (Burrow + maybe Wilson & Higgins). This will likely be around $7-$8 mil for Joe and $5 mil for Tee. Less for Wilson. 

2) Whatever we have left over will go to signing FAs to bolster the team with whatever does not get addressed in the draft. Remember displacement applies here too. As do dead cap hits. If the FA signing is a minimal (Sidney Jones, Ford, etc) it likely barely moves the needle on the cap at all. 

3) Depending on how things shake out with the draft, extensions, other FA moves, and Jonah, Mixon, and Collins, we could have enough $$ to make a couple sulignificsnt FA moves, be it soon or during camp cutdowns. 

[XenoMorph]

(04-14-2023, 02:16 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The Bengals currently have about 17 million in cap space. Thats 10th in the league. They've done this without really restructing many, if at any, contracts or by really cutting any salary.

That's a decent amount of cap space but many speculate we can open up around an aditional 10 million by cutting Joe Mixon, putting the Bengals at around 27 million in cap space. This would put us in the top 3-5 in the league.

We need about 8 million in cap for the rookie class, so that would put us at about 9 million without cutting Mixon or 19 million if we were to cut Mixon.

The options that I can come up with on how to use the remaining cap are these:

1. Roll the remaining cap over for future years.
2. Use the cap as a signing bonus for a players contract extension (Tee)?
3. Sign an aditional FA to help this year.

So, what do you all think is the plan for the remaining cap space?

Getting Ready for multiple Titanic sized Extensions