Is the team better now compared to last year?

[lone bengal]

Better, offensive line has cost us the last two years outside of the Buffalo game we haven't been able to score enough in the playoffs. Brown big upgrade at LT plus you make the Chiefs weaker. I view Cappa as an addition because he missed that playoff game and would have made a huge difference. The 0-2 start was due in part to 4 new lineman trying to gel. I think the line will have more continuity inside and Volson will improve in year 2. Better start to the year the Bengals might have had the 1 seed and you don't have to play in KC. Pass rush upgrade and better rotation. CB1 back from injury and Cam Britt-Taylor should be better in year 2. TE similar to last year , Sample and a high pick TE on a one year prove it deal. Downgrade at safety but that's the cost of doing business.

[BleedNOrange]

An important part of this question is better than what team from last. The team that went on an 8 game win streak to close the season or the team in the AFC Championship game?

Those were 2 different teams. We were down 3 starting OL, CB1, and even Boyd (left in Q2) in the AFC Championship game. This team should be better than that team. We are probably not better than, but close to, the team that won 8 straight. That team in AFC Championship was still tied with the ball in our hands under 2 minutes from beating the eventual Super Bowl champs (yes, I know Chiefs were down players too).

Feels like we gained more depth but no difference makers. Hopefully that is enough.

[WeezyBengal]

(05-03-2023, 10:57 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Bates was a top 10-15 safety and Bell was really good. Dax has potential, sure, but he's not proven to be as good as either one of them and Scott is supposedly around Bell's level. So, objectively, you really can't say that our current safeties are better or equal to what we had last year. They may end up being that way, but CURRENTLY, you can NOT say they're equal or better.

Yeah...that's my point...  

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(05-03-2023, 10:46 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: With what we know - I think the team is overall better.

The biggest question mark is at safety - its impossible to tell if its going to be better or worse because we literally don't know what we have.

Dax Hill could be this monster play maker and could actually be an upgrade over Bates or Bell.

This is where I stand: outside of S (which is an unknown at this point), I too think the team is better on the whole. Plus the young guys have 1 more year under their belts of experience.

[WeezyBengal]

(05-03-2023, 11:39 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think this is a fair take.

I do think Scott is a worse safety than Bell.

And, INJURIES are always the wildcard. Some player(s) will unfortunately get injured.

On paper, it's close to a push though I'd say overall.

Nick Scott could be worse but Jordan Battle could come in and be a good day 1 starter (wouldnt shock me, started and captained the Bama team for 4 years). 

Just don't know. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-03-2023, 10:53 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Having a punter that can you net 10 - 20 more yards on each kick is absolutely huge. It literally cost us the AFCC game. 

We should be better in the return game as well.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-03-2023, 11:39 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think this is a fair take.

I do think Scott is a worse safety than Bell.

And, INJURIES are always the wildcard. Some player(s) will unfortunately get injured.

On paper, it's close to a push though I'd say overall.

The injury wildcard isn't as scary as it once was. That's where I think this team is better than last year's team. Depth. This is as deep of a team as I recall in quite some time.

[leonardfan40]

Fairly even id say. I’d lean towards maybe a slight improvement, with the potential to be substantially better. It’ll really depend on how our 1st and 2nd year players perform. If Murphy adds legit pass rush rotation in year one that is a huge improvement. If Dax lives up to the hype and keeps safety from being much of a drop off, if Brown can bring some spark into the RB room, if CTB/Volson/etc continue to improve, we will end up being much better. Development is where the improvement will (or will not) show.

[Nepa]

i agree with the OP. Good analysis.

On paper, safety was unquestionably downgraded. Bates and Bell were excellent safeties, as seen by the contracts they got elsewhere. They are gone only because the Bengals could not possibly afford them. Our current safeties have a total of one year of starting experience at the position (Nick Scott). But they could turn out excellent. Dax Hill, Nick Scott, Tycen Anderson, and Jordan Battle certainly have a lot of speed and athleticism. We won't know if they fill in adequately or well for Bates and Bell until the season is underway.

Tight end is also a drop-off. Not only has Irv Smith been injured more games than he has played, he is tied for the second shortest tight end in the league (the average height is 6'4"; he is tied with a few others at 6'2").

The OL has improved and the pass rushing has improved, which are big helps. The Bengals ranked near the bottom in QB pressures and sacks, and the OL lacked the depth last year to surmount the injuries.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-03-2023, 10:27 AM)ochocincos Wrote: This question was posed on the Locked On Bengals podcast. Jake Liscow and Joe Goodberry were talking about it.

Now that the bulk of FA and the draft have completed, the roster is pretty much set.
The only things that might happen are some Summer trades/pickups, but those are usually very few and far between, most often involving backups.

Based on who's on the roster today, is this a better team than last year's squad?

My take:
LT is an upgrade
RT is up in the air, but it could possibly be an upgrade once we get to see Williams, Carman, and Ford out there.
CB I feel is an upgrade overall.
DL should be upgraded some, although mainly from a rotational standpoint.
Same with WR. Depth was improved.
Safety is up in the air with Bates and Bell gone, but I think it will be worse at least for the first 1-2 months. I like the potential of the safeties though.
TE is arguably a downgrade. Irv Smith is no more productive than Hurst and is less durable, and the depth didn't improve.
RB I think has more juice, but pass protection might be worse from that position.
Backup QB is maybe a push, although I've never been a Brandon Allen fan. Maybe it's a downgrade.

Since I cannot confidently say better or worse, I'll vote "not sure yet"

Yes, we are better. The only place on the roster I am not sure is Safety and Dax Hill could be great and Lou liked Nick Scott for a 
reason and we drafted a dude who could be a future stud in Battle. We will probably add a TE after cuts in case Irv Smith gets hit
with injuries again as that is the other place on the roster I am not sure. Maybe before we drafted Chase Brown RB was worse but
I really like Brown and he is a good pass protector and WAY more explosive than Perine.

Our OL should be much better early this season especially our interior as they now have chemistry. As you say, LT is upgraded with
Orlando Brown. I think between Carman and Jonah RT could be good. Burrow will be better because he won't be coming off an 
appendectomy. The pass rush should be better with Myles Murphy, corner depth should be better with DJ Turner and I still think 
Apple is back soon enough unless he has been signed somewhere else which I have not heard. WR depth is better and so is the 
Returner situation with Charlie Jones and the ST's is better with this Draft and Robbins at Punter etc.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-03-2023, 12:13 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yeah...that's my point...  

Oh. Misread it. My bad.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-03-2023, 12:19 PM)Wyche Wrote: The injury wildcard isn't as scary as it once was. That's where I think this team is better than last year's team. Depth. This is as deep of a team as I recall in quite some time.

Yep. It's really Burrow, Chase, and Tee. Those guys are unreplaceable.

Everywhere else, there is depth.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Improved:
1) OT. A lot  
2) Punter. A lot.
3) DE. Significantlty.
4) WR. Significantly.
5) QB. Measurably.  QB2 a lot, Joe with a full camp. 
5) CB. Slightly.  
6) PR. Slightly.

Same.
1) DT/NT. Same 5 guys.
2) LB. Same top 5.
3) IOL. Same top 5.
4) PK  Same.
5) LS. Same.
6) KR. Same.

Wash.
1) TE. Smith for Hurst is a wash, maybe a slight downgrade due to durability. But getting Sample back healthy is a slight upgrade to last year's #2 (Wilcox). Asiasi is the same #3. Wilcox could still return.


Uncertain.
1) RB. Depends on how Brown does. Pass pro likely got worse, but if the OL is better, it may matter less. But got more juice, for sure.

Worse  
1) S. More speed. Less experience. I think Hill will be fine for Bates, eventually. More upside. More speed. More worried about Scott/Battle for Bell  Like RB, more juice with Hill, Scott, Anderson, & Battle. We'll see how they do.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-03-2023, 03:47 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Wash.
1) TE. Smith for Hurst is a wash, maybe a slight downgrade due to durability. But getting Sample back healthy is a slight upgrade to last year's #2 (Wilcox). Asiasi is the same #3. Wilcox could still return.

Not so sure about that.

It's kinda hard to gauge run blocking without going back to look for specifically the YPC behind Sample vs Wilcox (I wasn't able to find), but from a PFF grading perspective, here was Wilcox's 2022 compared to Sample's 2021 (was healthy all year).

Wilcox 2022:
Receiving - 55.7, (8.2 YPC)
Pass Block - 72.1 (0 pressures allowed, 37 pb snaps)
Run Block - 60.1

Sample 2021:
Receiving - 56.1 (7.4 YPC)
Pass Block - 73.4 (3 pressures allowed inc. 1 sack, 65 pb snaps)
Run Block - 61.5

Wilcox was just about on par with Sample.
Wilcox might be a bit better in the receiving game too.

[higgy100]

(05-03-2023, 01:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, we are better. The only place on the roster I am not sure is Safety and Dax Hill could be great and Lou liked Nick Scott for a 
reason and we drafted a dude who could be a future stud in Battle. We will probably add a TE after cuts in case Irv Smith gets hit
with injuries again as that is the other place on the roster I am not sure. Maybe before we drafted Chase Brown RB was worse but
I really like Brown and he is a good pass protector and WAY more explosive than Perine.

Our OL should be much better early this season especially our interior as they now have chemistry. As you say, LT is upgraded with
Orlandon Brown. I think between Carman and Jonah RT could be good. Burrow will be better because he won't be coming off an 
appendectomy. The pass rush should be better with Myles Murphy, corner depth should be better with DJ Turner and I still think 
Apple is back soon enough unless he has been signed somewhere else which I have not heard. WR depth is better and so is the 
Returner situation with Charlie Jones and the ST's is better with this Draft and Robbins at Punter etc.

We're a better team. Certainly much better on the OL and the DL and you won't win consistently if you can't be good at least on one side. People forget Hendrickson was hurt for over a dozen games which nullified the pass rush. 

[tms]

My only thought about this is that the environment is slightly more conducive to success. Last year they were defending AFC Champs. Skeptics wondered if they were a one-hit wonder, etc. That's pressure you have to learn to deal with and it isn't always welcome. This year, it's understood that they're a contender. They don't have to measure up to last year so much as reach a new level. They're looking forward instead of being anchored to questions about the past. I don't know if it was ever a problem but they're less distracted now. That's invigorating. I'm excited to see where it leads.

[depthchart]

.


There is also the Coaching Staff itself which has been gaining Big Game experience Coaching against the Rams, Chiefs, Bills etc in Playoff situations these past few years.

I have heard many players and Coaches say that Playoff Games, Conference Championship games and Super Bowls are another level of pressure coupled with going up against the very best players & Coaches in Win or go home situations.  

It wasn't long ago that Zac Taylor was an inexperienced Head Coach but as each year has passed recently he and his Staff have gained Playoff level knowledge. Beating the Bills in the Playoffs on the road last year plus another AFC Championship game in Arrowhead against Andy Reid has to have this Coaching Staff more knowledgeable & better equipped for 2023 than they were for 2022.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-03-2023, 04:13 PM)higgy100 Wrote: We're a better team. Certainly much better on the OL and the DL and you won't win consistently if you can't be good at least on one side. People forget Hendrickson was hurt for over a dozen games which nullified the pass rush. 

Yeah, and Trey had a broken wrist throughout the Playoffs and he still got some pressure, but that cannot be fun when you are a pass 
rusher. Carman coming around in the Playoffs also brings hope that he might not be a bust, we will see if it was only playing Guard that
messed with him if he plays well at RT.

If a 3-Tech comes out of nowhere on this team that can pressure from the middle who knows how good our D can be with the additions
of Myles Murphy, Brick Scott, Tarrell Basham, DJ Turner and Jordan Battle. I expect major growth from Daxton Hill and CTB too this year.

(05-03-2023, 04:30 PM)tms Wrote: My only thought about this is that the environment is slightly more conducive to success. Last year they were defending AFC Champs. Skeptics wondered if they were a one-hit wonder, etc. That's pressure you have to learn to deal with and it isn't always welcome. This year, it's understood that they're a contender. They don't have to measure up to last year so much as reach a new level. They're looking forward instead of being anchored to questions about the past. I don't know if it was ever a problem but they're less distracted now. That's invigorating. I'm excited to see where it leads.

Nice post TMS. It is exciting, we even started out 0-2 and the question of the year before being a fluke was asked to an even higher 
extent because of it. Last year was about proving we belong and boy did we...

This year it is about proving we are the best team in the NFL and winning it all.

(05-03-2023, 04:56 PM)depthchart Wrote: .


There is also the Coaching Staff itself which has been gaining Big Game experience Coaching against the Rams, Chiefs, Bills etc in Playoff situations these past few years.

I have heard many players and Coaches say that Playoff Games, Conference Championship games and Super Bowls are another level of pressure coupled with going up against the very best players & Coaches in Win or go home situations.  

It wasn't long ago that Zac Taylor was an inexperienced Head Coach but as each year has passed recently he and his Staff have gained Playoff level knowledge. Beating the Bills in the Playoffs on the road last year plus another AFC Championship game in Arrowhead against Andy Reid has to have this Coaching Staff more knowledgeable & better equipped for 2023 than they were for 2022.

Great post Depthchart. So true, the Coaching Staff is still completely intact and not many teams can say this after having the 
last 2 seasons we had. We now have been there before and know how to beat the best. I like our chances if we can stay some
what healthy with this roster and these coaches.

[ezekiel23]

“For what we know now,this team is better.We’ll just have to wait and see how things work out.But,on paper,I think this is a better team than last year.

We also have our original coaching staff still all intact,and I think it’s one of the better ones in the league.

The main thing I’m really focused on going into this new season is the OL.RT is still a question mark.We improved at LT,and Volson is just going to continue to get better.Karras and Cappa are great.If,for instance,Jonah Williams would make up his mind to work his butt off and come in and lock down that RT spot,and have a Pro-Bowl year,,,,,,We win the Super Bowl.

Of course it could be Jackson Carman or Cody Ford for all we know.But I think,if things work out good at RT,then could possibly be the best OL we’ve had in a long time.With a top 5 OL,nobody beats this team.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-03-2023, 06:15 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: “For what we know now,this team is better.We’ll just have to wait and see how things work out.But,on paper,I think this is a better team than last year.

We also have our original coaching staff still all intact,and I think it’s one of the better ones in the league.

The main thing I’m really focused on going into this new season is the OL.RT is still a question mark.We improved at LT,and Volson is just going to continue to get better.Karras and Cappa are great.If,for instance,Jonah Williams would make up his mind to work his butt off and come in and lock down that RT spot,and have a Pro-Bowl year,,,,,,We win the Super Bowl.

Of course it could be Jackson Carman or Cody Ford for all we know.But I think,if things work out good at RT,then could possibly be the best OL we’ve had in a long time.With a top 5 OL,nobody beats this team.

I think had RT and TE been addressed with less uncertainty, I would feel more comfortable saying "yes, better."
I think someone out of the group will emerge from the OTs to get the RT spot decent, but I'm still not confident in saying above average until I see it. You got all guys moving (back) to a position they haven't played (at least in a while).
TE I just flat out don't really care for Irv Smith. I think he's maybe good for half a season but you can't count on him more than that. And he really wasn't that productive even when he was playing. Hard to feel confident he'd even be middle of the pack starter.