We’re gonna have a top 5 defense if the o line is as good as we think it should be

[Housh]

You say this because the scheme Lou runs is basically don’t let shit behind you and come down to make tackles.

This scheme while not producing a lot of turnovers is just a smart D to run against these modern offenses. Our offense wasnt trash last year but it also wasn’t balanced which makes it a step under elite. If we can somehow balance the offense and add point to our per game average that same exact defensive scheme becomes godly when you are protecting leads instead of coming from behind or trying to keep pace.

I expect the defense to do way better because i expect the offense to be better. I think Iv officially settled around 14 wins and i don’t see why that’s unrealistic if our offense takes a step. No team really has the personnel to stop us AND light us up. The Chiefs, Ravens, Eagles, and maybe these new Jets should be the only teams that can match up with us well.

[SunsetBengal]

Maybe, there are a lot of variables in that equation. Variables such as new parts in the OL, with one part changing positions, as well as replacing not one, but two Safeties who were very good in a Safety dependent secondary scheme. Hopefully the new Safeties acclimate and develop quickly, and the offense can keep the score out of reach.

[Soonerpeace]

(06-02-2023, 07:25 PM)Housh Wrote: You say this because the scheme Lou runs is basically don’t let shit behind you and come down to make tackles.

This scheme while not producing a lot of turnovers is just a smart D to run against these modern offenses. Our offense was trash last year but it also wasn’t balanced which makes it a step under elite. If we can somehow balance the offense and add point to our per game average that same exact defensive scheme becomes godly when you are protecting leads instead of coming from behind or trying to keep pace.

I expect the defense to do way better because i expect the offense to be better. I think Iv officially settled around 14 wins and i don’t see why that’s unrealistic if our offense takes a step. No team really has the personnel to stop us AND light us up. The Chiefs, Ravens, Eagles, and maybe these new Jets should be the only teams that can match up with us well.

They lost 2 longtime veteran starters and established playmakers. Don’t think that’s easily overcome initially. But I have faith by the end of the year we will be solid. The key is Myles Murphy and Ossai. If our pass rush can be a force then I can see it. But top 5 with an inexperienced secondary? I’m not a buyer. I’m more optimistic that the offense really takes a big leap. A big leap. I know for a fact the offensive scheme has been neutered. Gentlemen if they can protect Joe then Tee & Chase will have the most yards by a duo all time. Bye bye Moss and Chris Carter

[TKUHL]

(06-02-2023, 07:25 PM)Housh Wrote: You say this because the scheme Lou runs is basically don’t let shit behind you and come down to make tackles.

This scheme while not producing a lot of turnovers is just a smart D to run against these modern offenses. Our offense wasnt trash last year but it also wasn’t balanced which makes it a step under elite. If we can somehow balance the offense and add point to our per game average that same exact defensive scheme becomes godly when you are protecting leads instead of coming from behind or trying to keep pace.

I expect the defense to do way better because i expect the offense to be better. I think Iv officially settled around 14 wins and i don’t see why that’s unrealistic if our offense takes a step. No team really has the personnel to stop us AND light us up. The Chiefs, Ravens, Eagles, and maybe these new Jets should be the only teams that can match up with us well.

Or maybe the Browns. We do struggle against M. Garrett & Co. and if the get Hopkins too. Gonna be a tougher division this year. Maybe the toughest since we got Joe.

[NUGDUKWE]

(06-02-2023, 11:11 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Or maybe the Browns. We do struggle against M. Garrett & Co. and if the get Hopkins too. Gonna be a tougher division this year. Maybe the toughest since we got Joe.

I agree. I think week 1 is gonna be tough. I really want a week 1 where we don't let Burrow get pummeled and the Browns are gonna be a very tough test to make this happen. I also think both Baltimore and Pittsburgh are gonna be solid this year. Probably the gonna be the toughest division in football again.

[samhain]

As others have said, there's a lot on the plates of the young safeties.

We had one of if not the best safety tandem in the league for a couple of years. It's hard for me to imagine the defense getting better while losing both of those guys.

Yes, they had countermeasures in place to address this, and yes, I think the young safeties could be terrific. The key word is young, as in really young and inexperienced. Scott has put in some time, and he could potentially get better, but he's still new to the defense.

Hill is an unknown. I think people were very confident in him as a value draft pick. Unfortunately (or fortunately, since it meant Bell and Bates were healthy) he didn't get much on-field action in 2022. When he did he made some real bonehead mistakes, ie the Wild Card game. Even so, the potential is high. He has versatility, which is normally a positive, but I think we need him to be one thing, and that thing is a Bates replacement. It doesn't matter if he can play everywhere in the secondary if he can't man single high like Jesse did. That's what he's probably going to be asked to do. No Bates heir means a huge downgrade in containing the deep ball, which is crucial in this conference with these qbs.

Battle is very interesting. Camp will tell a lot about him. If he manages to secure a starting spot against Scott or Hill, then we might have a steal on our hands. Smarts go a long way, and if coaches are to be believed, he has all a DC can ask for. In some ways, his draft position and profile remind me of Bell when he came into the league. He wasn't a first day pick and he came from an always-loaded college secondary. Teams viewed him as a limited player vs the pass. He did not get a big contract after his rookie deal. He did, however, prove to be an instinctive safety that had a knack for big plays. Super smart and reliable. Against the early odds, he got a nice second contract. We'll see....

I like the youth in the secondary as a long term asset, but you just never know how long it's going to take them to adjust to the league and the defensive scheme. CTB was relatively quick with it despite missing time due to injury early on. Another advantage is a staff that's been entrenched for a long time despite a lot of recent success. Somehow, Lou is still here, and he's a DB wizard. This isn't a bad thing.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-02-2023, 07:48 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Gentlemen if they can protect Joe then Tee & Chase will have the most yards by a duo all time. Bye bye Moss and Chris Carter

Don't think they're even close to the record holders. I believe 2000 was the most they combined for, at 2,711 yards.

In 2018 AB and Juju combined for 2,723 yards.

Just last year alone Tyreek Hill and Jalen Waddle combined for 3,066. Even if you subtract one game's worth of average from that total to account for 16 games vs 17, that's still 2,885 (which is actually more of a penalty than reality, as they combined for just 67 yards in Week 18 last year, meaning 2,999 yards in their first 16 games).

Might be more, but those were just the two off the top of my head.

EDIT: Immediately was like "wait a second, who was Cooper Kupp's #2?"... sure enough, Cooper Kupp and Van Jefferson combined for 2,749 yards, but that's actually a 17 game total that wouldn't hold up even if you removed the 17th game.

[Soonerpeace]

(06-03-2023, 01:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Don't think they're even close to the record holders. I believe 2000 was the most they combined for, at 2,711 yards.

In 2018 AB and Juju combined for 2,723 yards.

Just last year alone Tyreek Hill and Jalen Waddle combined for 3,066. Even if you subtract one game's worth of average from that total to account for 16 games vs 17, that's still 2,885 (which is actually more of a penalty than reality, as they combined for just 67 yards in Week 18 last year, meaning 2,999 yards in their first 16 games).

Might be more, but those were just the two off the top of my head.

EDIT: Immediately was like "wait a second, who was Cooper Kupp's #2?"... sure enough, Cooper Kupp and Van Jefferson combined for 2,749 yards, but that's actually a 17 game total that wouldn't hold up even if you removed the 17th game.

That’s correct although they don’t hold the record many consider Moss and Carter the greatest receiving duo of all time. Certainly Rice/Taylor Rice/Owens Duper/Clayton are in the conversation. But you are on track for sure.



https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/top-5-nfl-receiving-duos-all-time

https://gridironheroics.com/top-five-receiver-duos-in-nfl-history/

[Frank Booth]

Only if everyone stays healthy(especially Reader and Hendrickson), and Murphy outperforms year 1 expectations.

[CincyKid]

(06-03-2023, 02:08 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Only if everyone stays healthy(especially Reader and Hendrickson), and Murphy outperforms year 1 expectations.

Your health is your wealth and it holds true in all sports and life.

Trey and Reader will start the year at 100% then add in our 1st Rd steal...........we are loaded.

Dr Lou will have the new safeties ready to go and its gonna be fun to watch the battle for starters.

just got a feelin the Rookie Safety from 'Bama is gonna scrap and claw to find his way onto the field.

[phil413]

If we are talking about the OL play leading to the defense playing better, the running game is critical. We know Brown Jr. = better pass blocking on the left side, but the OL's continuity may lead to run lanes being open more often. Specifically on the right side with Cappa, but it really comes down to what they get out of RT.

We hope for the best with the young RB, for more efficiency out of Mixon and blocking (though still threaten dowfield) from the rag tag TE crew. That's where the bigger questions may be.

Being able to run block out of 4 wide sets will be the biggest test. I know we didn't use those sets much last year, but if Jones is who we think he is we may justify using 4 wide more. Especially if/when Smith Jr. missed time.

[casear2727]

There is the possibility that if we are that good, that teams will be playing catch up and obtaining a ton of garbage stats. See Deshaun Watson's incredible stats the year he led the Texans to 4-12 record.....

[Soonerpeace]

(06-03-2023, 04:43 PM)phil413 Wrote: If we are talking about the OL play leading to the defense playing better, the running game is critical. We know Brown Jr. = better pass blocking on the left side, but the OL's continuity may lead to run lanes being open more often. Specifically on the right side with Cappa, but it really comes down to what they get out of RT.

We hope for the best with the young RB, for more efficiency out of Mixon and blocking (though still threaten dowfield) from the rag tag TE crew. That's where the bigger questions may be.

Being able to run block out of 4 wide sets will be the biggest test. I know we didn't use those sets much last year, but if Jones is who we think he is we may justify using 4 wide more. Especially if/when Smith Jr. missed time.

I hope that this happens.

[phil413]

(06-03-2023, 11:25 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I hope that this happens.

I think the concept would be the same as the improved OL play helping the defense by keeping off the field more.  

The best improvement from last year to hope for is Burrow getting a second longer to throw the ball.  He's surgical back there, and we may be in a unique situation that the big play potential opens up a steady  short game...which opens up the running lanes.  Which opens up longer drives ending in scores.  We love the defense bailing us out the last 2 postseasons, but this offense has to much talent to not be elite at efficiency.

That not only give the defense a rest but helps us rotate the Ossai, Murphy and Carter types more often.  They have to have a better rush with the lesser safety play that others have called out.  I'm happy with how we rebounded at safety and spent the offseason money but we did take a step back there in talent and chemistry.  

[bengals1969]

(06-02-2023, 07:25 PM)Housh Wrote: You say this because the scheme Lou runs is basically don’t let shit behind you and come down to make tackles.

This scheme while not producing a lot of turnovers is just a smart D to run against these modern offenses. Our offense wasnt trash last year but it also wasn’t balanced which makes it a step under elite. If we can somehow balance the offense and add point to our per game average that same exact defensive scheme becomes godly when you are protecting leads instead of coming from behind or trying to keep pace.

I expect the defense to do way better because i expect the offense to be better. I think Iv officially settled around 14 wins and i don’t see why that’s unrealistic if our offense takes a step. No team really has the personnel to stop us AND light us up. The Chiefs, Ravens, Eagles, and maybe these new Jets should be the only teams that can match up with us well.

If the Oline can give Burrow an extra second to make his reads, yeah it’s a new offense. Play action and the deep ball become more deadly than last year and maybe the running game is too. Both Mixon and Brown can catch so with that extra time they can open up the short field more than last year. The defense is depending upon the second year guys to improve the pass rush.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-02-2023, 07:25 PM)Housh Wrote: You say this because the scheme Lou runs is basically don’t let shit behind you and come down to make tackles.

This scheme while not producing a lot of turnovers is just a smart D to run against these modern offenses. Our offense wasnt trash last year but it also wasn’t balanced which makes it a step under elite. If we can somehow balance the offense and add point to our per game average that same exact defensive scheme becomes godly when you are protecting leads instead of coming from behind or trying to keep pace.

I expect the defense to do way better because i expect the offense to be better. I think Iv officially settled around 14 wins and i don’t see why that’s unrealistic if our offense takes a step. No team really has the personnel to stop us AND light us up. The Chiefs, Ravens, Eagles, and maybe these new Jets should be the only teams that can match up with us well.

A great Offense that can keep the Defense fresh sure can help what you say happen.

The Orlando Brown and Chase Brown additions specifically should help big time. A big LT that doesn't get pushed around and a RB 
with actual vision and the will to pass protect are what this Offense and Burrow needed. Adding Myles Murphy who is maybe the 
strongest End I have seen in awhile sure is a topper for this Defense and should give both Trey and Sam some rest at times and 
give the Secondary less time to have to cover which should help them in turn.

(06-03-2023, 02:41 PM)CincyKid Wrote: Your health is your wealth and it holds true in all sports and life.

Trey and Reader will start the year at 100% then add in our 1st Rd steal...........we are loaded.

Dr Lou will have the new safeties ready to go and its gonna be fun to watch the battle for starters.

just got a feelin the Rookie Safety from 'Bama is gonna scrap and claw to find his way onto the field.

Actually excited for the Safety battle with the additions of Battle and Brick Scott.

Seriously, watch some Jordan Battle film and try and not be excited about this guy. Dude is smart, hits like a tank and is always 
around the ball and trying to take it away with good hands. Talk about a Vonn Bell replacement, dude could be just that. Lou just
gushes about Battle when talking about him and it is understandable.

[Soonerpeace]

(06-04-2023, 02:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: A great Offense that can keep the Defense fresh sure can help what you say happen.

The Orlando Brown and Chase Brown additions specifically should help big time. A big LT that doesn't get pushed around and a RB 
with actual vision and the will to pass protect are what this Offense and Burrow needed. Adding Myles Murphy who is maybe the 
strongest End I have seen in awhile sure is a topper for this Defense and should give both Trey and Sam some rest at times and 
give the Secondary less time to have to cover which should help them in turn.


Actually excited for the Safety battle with the additions of Battle and Brick Scott.

Seriously, watch some Jordan Battle film and try and not be excited about this guy. Dude is smart, hits like a tank and is always 
around the ball and trying to take it away with good hands. Talk about a Vonn Bell replacement, dude could be just that. Lou just
gushes about Battle when talking about him and it is understandable.

I am excited about Battle too. Lou’s son went to high school with Jordan so they knew each other.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-02-2023, 07:25 PM)Housh Wrote: You say this because the scheme Lou runs is basically don’t let shit behind you and come down to make tackles.

This scheme while not producing a lot of turnovers is just a smart D to run against these modern offenses. Our offense wasnt trash last year but it also wasn’t balanced which makes it a step under elite. If we can somehow balance the offense and add point to our per game average that same exact defensive scheme becomes godly when you are protecting leads instead of coming from behind or trying to keep pace.

I expect the defense to do way better because i expect the offense to be better. I think Iv officially settled around 14 wins and i don’t see why that’s unrealistic if our offense takes a step. No team really has the personnel to stop us AND light us up. The Chiefs, Ravens, Eagles, and maybe these new Jets should be the only teams that can match up with us well.

Having the consistency of Lou still as DC is HUGE.  Having Chido come back 100% will also be HUGE.  Adding Orlando Brown as LT was HUGE.  That equals more ball control and longer possessions.  

Here is my only concern:  Bates and Bell were underrated IMHO as to their overall contribution to the defense.  I know neither made the splash plays like a Minkah Fitzpatrick, but they were very solid.  They have some experience with Scott, and lots of potential with Hill, Turner, and Battle, as well as a bit of a wildcard (that I really like) in Tyson Anderson.  What I really love about this unit is the overall speed.  Only battle is over a 4.40, and not by much, in the forty.  What I worry about is the lack of NFL experience.  Wish we could have seen more of Hill last year, as well as Anderson, but overall I am pretty optimistic about this unit.

The rest of the defense will be REALLY tough.  Adding the depth of rotation at DE with Murphy, more development from the likes of Sample and Carter, and they have a damn good linebacker room.  The only real question marks are the safeties and if Chido will be back to 100%.  

[sandwedge]

(06-05-2023, 09:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Having the consistency of Lou still as DC is HUGE.  Having Chido come back 100% will also be HUGE.  Adding Orlando Brown as LT was HUGE.  That equals more ball control and longer possessions.  

Here is my only concern:  Bates and Bell were underrated IMHO as to their overall contribution to the defense.  I know neither made the splash plays like a Minkah Fitzpatrick, but they were very solid.  They have some experience with Scott, and lots of potential with Hill, Turner, and Battle, as well as a bit of a wildcard (that I really like) in Tyson Anderson.  What I really love about this unit is the overall speed.  Only battle is over a 4.40, and not by much, in the forty.  What I worry about is the lack of NFL experience.  Wish we could have seen more of Hill last year, as well as Anderson, but overall I am pretty optimistic about this unit.

The rest of the defense will be REALLY tough.  Adding the depth of rotation at DE with Murphy, more development from the likes of Sample and Carter, and they have a damn good linebacker room.  The only real question marks are the safeties and if Chido will be back to 100%.  

I don't know the reason really, but I think Tysen Anderson is gonna open some eyes. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-04-2023, 03:33 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I am excited about Battle too. Lou’s son went to high school with Jordan so they knew each other.

Didn't know that. That is cool. Battle just made plays at Bama, think he will do the same for us and maybe soon if Nick Scott isn't
the answer. Battle has very good instincts and as we have seen with certain Defensive players this can be the difference more so 
than pure talent and athleticism.

(06-05-2023, 09:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Having the consistency of Lou still as DC is HUGE.  Having Chido come back 100% will also be HUGE.  Adding Orlando Brown as LT was HUGE.  That equals more ball control and longer possessions.  

Here is my only concern:  Bates and Bell were underrated IMHO as to their overall contribution to the defense.  I know neither made the splash plays like a Minkah Fitzpatrick, but they were very solid.  They have some experience with Scott, and lots of potential with Hill, Turner, and Battle, as well as a bit of a wildcard (that I really like) in Tyson Anderson.  What I really love about this unit is the overall speed.  Only battle is over a 4.40, and not by much, in the forty.  What I worry about is the lack of NFL experience.  Wish we could have seen more of Hill last year, as well as Anderson, but overall I am pretty optimistic about this unit.

The rest of the defense will be REALLY tough.  Adding the depth of rotation at DE with Murphy, more development from the likes of Sample and Carter, and they have a damn good linebacker room.  The only real question marks are the safeties and if Chido will be back to 100%.  

We will see on the Safeties, as you say, that is the one big question on Defense besides how well Chido comes back.

Love Dax Hill's upside and Nick Scott's poor pass coverage ratings had a lot to do with Jalen Ramsey's free wheeling on the Rams.

Lou's D's do not have free wheeling Corners that do what they want, Lou's secondary's are disciplined. This should help Scott, and 
if not, we have both Tycen Anderson and Jordan Battle who have great upside.

(06-05-2023, 11:44 AM)sandwedge Wrote: I don't know the reason really, but I think Tysen Anderson is gonna open some eyes. 

He is big and talented, played very well in the Preseason last year and we traded up for Tycen. We might be more than okay at 
Safety, who knows. Definitely like all our players, they are just inexperienced. Brick Scott has some valuable experience but he 
only started playing Safety a few years ago. By far our most experienced Safety is Michael Thomas, but he is a ST's Captain.

The young guys need the most snaps.