Reds August 2023 thread

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-15-2023, 11:05 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: This is a side note, but I looked up every right handed hitter on our team when writing this up and I think I've identified what is so frustrating about Johnathan India.

Despite being a right handed hitter, he is only batting .216/.306/.361/.667 against left handed pitchers. His line against right handers is actually much better, .263/.345/.424/.769. 

It's a small sample size, with only 97 ABs against lefties this season, and in previous seasons his splits are more reflective of what a right handed hitter should be, but that may be what feels off about India this season.

Right handed hitters kind of rely on those left handed match ups to bolster their Batting Avg because they are so favored in the match up but, for whatever reason, India has not been able to capitalize on those ABs. So he's struggling against righties, which nearly every right handed hitter does to some degree, but then he's also struggling against lefties. That is a combination that results in a struggling season all around.

Yep India's struggles vs. lefties this season is kinda weird? I can't help but wonder if he faced more lefties if it would even out some ? But I believe one of the things India needs to understand is he's not a slugger. I feel part of his decline this season is he's trying to hard to be the hero instead of just hitting.

I could be wrong, lol

[The D.O.Z.]

(08-15-2023, 12:14 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep India's struggles vs. lefties this season is kinda weird? I can't help but wonder if he faced more lefties if it would even out some ? But I believe one of the things India needs to understand is he's not a slugger. I feel part of his decline this season is he's trying to hard to be the hero instead of just hitting.

I could be wrong, lol

Bell moving him around the lineup did him no favors. India is not a power bat, he belongs either at 1-2 or 7 in the order in my opinion. He’s more of a spark starter than an RBI guy. Moving him into spots where HR and multibase hits are expected probably changed his approach some, and not for the better.
His paltry numbers against lefties this year is baffling for sure. Are his outs more by contact or strikeout?

[cinci4life]

Geez Steer can't let that happen.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Really dumb by Elly right there.

[Nicomo Cosca]

2 men on with no outs and they get nothing. Terrible.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Man Cleveland has their # just as bad as the Brewers do.

[cinci4life]

Know i'm going to sound like captain obvious but this offense hasn't been the same since Fraley got hurt.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-15-2023, 09:17 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Really dumb by Elly right there.

I'm assuming you're talking about him trying to advance from 1st to 2nd on a lazy fly ball to right field right in front of him. Yes it was!!

Not sure what the hell he was thinking there? 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-15-2023, 10:41 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm assuming you're talking about him trying to advance from 1st to 2nd on a lazy fly ball to right field right in front of him. Yes it was!!

Not sure what the hell he was thinking there? 

I think it was probably just a case of him trying to do too much with the offense struggling. Still, there was no need to try it. Just wait and steal 2nd.

[guyofthetiger]

Sticking to my .500 club prediction. Seems the Reds are no good hitting with good pitching. Going to the game on Wednesday and hope the Reds win. The rookies are looking like rookies.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-15-2023, 11:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I think it was probably just a case of him trying to do too much with the offense struggling. Still, there was no need to try it. Just wait and steal 2nd.

For sure on both points. If the ball was caught one step from the wall, maybe? If the right fielder was in a full sprint towards deep right center, perhaps? 

But no way he makes it 90% of the time on the fly he tried it on. Only very bad throw saves him. He'll learn

[*ochocincos*]

(08-15-2023, 11:55 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Sticking to my .500 club prediction. Seems the Reds are no good hitting with good pitching. Going to the game on Wednesday and hope the Reds win. The rookies are looking like rookies.

Ashcraft and Williamson have really started hitting their stride, which is a positive.
As you said though, the bats aren't anywhere close to where they were in June.

The last 30 days, here are the averages and OPS:
EDLC - .219 BA, .719 OPS
Votto - .193 BA, .729 OPS
McLain - .281 BA, .839 OPS
Friedl - .229 BA, .702 OPS
Steer - .271 BA, .796 OPS
Benson - .286 BA, .987 OPS
CES - .250 BA, .680 OPS
Fraley - .231 BA, .721 OPS
Maile - .364 BA, 1.068 OPS (he needs more opportunities!)
Stephenson - .204 BA, .561 OPS
Newman - .200 BA, .530 OPS

McLain, Steer, Benson, and Maile are about the only ones doing ok from a hitting perspective the past month.
Need to have a few more getting their bats going again.

I'm really hoping the September call-ups and Greene and Lodolo help alleviate some of the pitching fatigue, but I'm honestly worried the Reds may be further and further out of the race by the time September hits.

[The D.O.Z.]

It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see us finish below .500. I mean, this IS a David Bell managed ballclub. All too familiar with late season swoons and bedshittings. Instead of using the TDL to add to the club (bullpen and a bat) they resigned a bum manager (who I would be willing to bet money no other club was looking to sign) to a three year extension. Just more Phil thumbing his nose at the fanbase.

[*bengalfan74*]

And more bad news:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/cincinnati-reds-provide-discouraging-injury-updates-on-key-veterans-as-playoff-push-heightens/ar-AA1flED5?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=374b75598b7c4d018d2ca30a5afdea18&ei=16

Sounds like Fraley isn't coming back anytime soon, and India is questionable as well. Seems India has some issues with the team. I think he's basically been a little ticked since the trade rumors were swirling.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-16-2023, 10:40 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Ashcraft and Williamson have really started hitting their stride, which is a positive.
As you said though, the bats aren't anywhere close to where they were in June.

The last 30 days, here are the averages and OPS:
EDLC - .219 BA, .719 OPS
Votto - .193 BA, .729 OPS
McLain - .281 BA, .839 OPS
Friedl - .229 BA, .702 OPS
Steer - .271 BA, .796 OPS
Benson - .286 BA, .987 OPS
CES - .250 BA, .680 OPS
Fraley - .231 BA, .721 OPS
Maile - .364 BA, 1.068 OPS (he needs more opportunities!)
Stephenson - .204 BA, .561 OPS
Newman - .200 BA, .530 OPS

McLain, Steer, Benson, and Maile are about the only ones doing ok from a hitting perspective the past month.
Need to have a few more getting their bats going again.

I'm really hoping the September call-ups and Greene and Lodolo help alleviate some of the pitching fatigue, but I'm honestly worried the Reds may be further and further out of the race by the time September hits.

I hope we don't face many more left handed pitchers so Bell won't have as much of an opportunity to play the scrubs.

[kevin]

OK, for all you Bad News people. Hunter Greene pitched 5.2 strong innings for Louisville Bats Tuesday night. So he has gone 2 inning, 4 innings and now 5.2 innings, just like Spring Training. Reds have Ashcraft and Abbott slated to pitch Monday and Tuesday, but nobody slated to pitch Sunday. So expect Hunter Greene on the mound Sunday in Cincinnati against Toronto.

I say Hunter Greene back on the mound Sunday is Good News.

As for you people griping about Bell, he had the Reds around 1st place Memorial Day and 4th of July and Reds filled the stands and made much needed money. Reds played a million times better than last year, and better than anybody expected.

Instead of blaming Bell, you people could be blaming The Moose and The Votto Contracts that still killed the Reds on payroll in 2023. But you don't want to do that because you all have a man crush for Votto.

So to your Bad News, I add Good News. Hunter Greene will be back Sunday and Ashcraft is back. They will get Lodolo and India back. Reds will be out from under the huge Moose and Votto contracts in a couple months. Reds will have money from first good attendance since before no fans covid. So Reds ARE getting players healthy and Reds ARE going to be better on money going into off season. And Bell DID do a great job of managing a last place team with money problems into 1st Place during Summer Holidays to fill Great American Ball Park and make Reds some MONEY and give FANS some good times this Summer.

I see more Good News on this team than Bad News. I told you people all along that if you thought the 2023 Reds were going World Series, you were crazy. Not that I didn't want to see it, but Reds are building for The Future. Like the 1980's Reds of Davis and Larkin and Browning who were being molded into the 1990 Championship, these young players like De La Cruz are being groomed for Championships like the 1980's Reds for 1990.

Anyway, Hunter Greene will be back, probably will pitch Sunday and Ashcraft Monday or Tuesday, so those 2 star pitchers back. GOOD NEWS.

I wasn't sure about Bell, but he should be up for manager of the year turning Reds around. I also said to give Coach Taylor more time when everybody wanted him fired. I said you can't expect miracles in his first 2 seasons, it takes longer to rebuild how awful the Bengals were when Coach Lewis and all the coaches fired. Some on this site came back and said I was right about giving Coach Taylor more than 2 seasons. You can't just look at today, you have to look at the future. You can't change coaches and quarterbacks every year like the Cleveland Browns, because constant change of leadership never puts down the roots to grow and Win. I remember early on Reds Fans saying Sparky Anderson was an idiot and needed fired. Fans are not always the best judges of who needs fired, because Fan is short for Fanatic. So I'll bet my pickle, that Fans sure are fickle, says Popeye The Sailor Man.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-16-2023, 01:18 PM)kevin Wrote: OK, for all you Bad News people.  Hunter Greene pitched 5.2 strong innings for Louisville Bats Tuesday night.  So he has gone 2 inning, 4 innings and now 5.2 innings, just like Spring Training.  Reds have Ashcraft and Abbott slated to pitch Monday and Tuesday, but nobody slated to pitch Sunday.  So expect Hunter Greene on the mound Sunday in Cincinnati against Toronto.

I say Hunter Greene back on the mound Sunday is Good News.  

As for you people griping about Bell, he had the Reds around 1st place Memorial Day and 4th of July and Reds filled the stands and made much needed money.  Reds played a million times better than last year, and better than anybody expected.  

Instead of blaming Bell, you people could be blaming The Moose and The Votto Contracts that still killed the Reds on payroll in 2023.  But you don't want to do that because you all have a man crush for Votto.  

So to your Bad News, I add Good News.  Hunter Greene will be back Sunday and Ashcraft is back.  They will get Lodolo and India back.  Reds will be out from under the huge Moose and Votto contracts in a couple months.  Reds will have money from first good attendance since before no fans covid.  So Reds ARE getting players healthy and Reds ARE going to be better on money going into off season.  And Bell DID do a great job of managing a last place team with money problems into 1st Place during Summer Holidays to fill Great American Ball Park and make Reds some MONEY and give FANS some good times this Summer.  

I see more Good News on this team than Bad News.  I told you people all along that if you thought the 2023 Reds were going World Series, you were crazy.  Not that I didn't want to see it, but Reds are building for The Future.  Like the 1980's Reds of Davis and Larkin and Browning who were being molded into the 1990 Championship,  these young players like De La Cruz are being groomed for Championships like the 1980's Reds for 1990.  

Anyway, Hunter Greene will be back, probably will pitch Sunday and Ashcraft Monday or Tuesday, so those 2 star pitchers back. GOOD NEWS.

I wasn't sure about Bell, but he should be up for manager of the year turning Reds around.   I also said to give Coach Taylor more time when everybody wanted him fired.  I said you can't  expect miracles in his first 2 seasons, it takes longer to rebuild how awful the Bengals were when Coach Lewis and all the coaches fired.  Some on this site came back and said I was right about giving Coach Taylor more than 2 seasons.  You can't just look at today, you have to look at the future. You can't change coaches and quarterbacks every year like the Cleveland Browns, because constant change of leadership never puts down the roots to grow and Win. I remember early on Reds Fans saying Sparky Anderson was an idiot and needed fired.  Fans are not always the best judges of who needs fired, because Fan is short for Fanatic.  So I'll bet my pickle, that Fans sure are fickle, says Popeye The Sailor Man.

I don't think anyone is saying Greene doesn't improve the rotation.
I think those not being optimistic are thinking with the way the bats and bullpen have been the past month, better starting pitching may not get the Reds back where they need to be with just 41 games left in the season.
Lodolo doesn't come back for at least another week, if not more, and he might not pitch well out of the gate.
And even if/when Greene and Lodolo come back and pitch well, that doesn't necessarily mean the bullpen will be good again.

I wouldn't say the fans are fickle, as that means characterized by erratic changeableness or instability. Fans are merely reacting to the trend the team is exhibiting in recent weeks. If the team is doing well, the fans will be optimistic. If the team is struggling, fans will be worried. That's the nature of sports fandom. It's not fickleness.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-16-2023, 12:26 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: And more bad news:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/cincinnati-reds-provide-discouraging-injury-updates-on-key-veterans-as-playoff-push-heightens/ar-AA1flED5?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=374b75598b7c4d018d2ca30a5afdea18&ei=16

Sounds like Fraley isn't coming back anytime soon, and India is questionable as well. Seems India has some issues with the team. I think he's basically been a little ticked since the trade rumors were swirling.

Hope that's not true, but if it is, what does he expect?
He's batting .251 with a .745 OPS on the season.
He's declined in his hitting since his rookie year.
With Votto back and CES called up to go along with Steer, McLain, and EDLC, they kind of have their infield covered.
They got some real good youth coming up soon in Marte and eventually Arroyo too.

India might have to accept that he's on his way out and just plan to ball out the rest of this season to build interest for a trade.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-16-2023, 01:18 PM)kevin Wrote: Anyway, Hunter Greene will be back, probably will pitch Sunday and Ashcraft Monday or Tuesday, so those 2 star pitchers back. GOOD NEWS.

I sure hope Greene comes back and kicks ass! I want this team to be in playoffs/good again, as much as anybody. Probably more than most.

But I'm also realistic. This is a very young team pretty much across the board. They still make too many young/inexperienced/rookie mistakes. Like DLC tagging up on first base on fly ball to medium deep right field with the outfielder facing right at him. Even with his speed he was out by two and 1/2 steps.

Their inconsistent at the plate, swinging at balls that bounce a foot in front of home plate. And even with a healthy Greene I'm still not convinced the starters can hang for 40+ games.

Abbott is very questionable moving forward. LL or Crazydawg was saying a week or so ago that this is the most innings he's ever pitched....already

I believe at the very best their chances of making playoffs are 50-50, however. I'm super excited about this team!! I believe this is the most talent they've assembled since the Big Red Machine days. I really do.

If they can avoid major injuries, keep it together and get enough pitching I feel this team could be a player in the post season for several years ahead.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-16-2023, 02:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hope that's not true, but if it is, what does he expect?
He's batting .251 with a .745 OPS on the season.
He's declined in his hitting since his rookie year.
With Votto back and CES called up to go along with Steer, McLain, and EDLC, they kind of have their infield covered.
They got some real good youth coming up soon in Marte and eventually Arroyo too.

India might have to accept that he's on his way out and just plan to ball out the rest of this season to build interest for a trade.

Exactly

And we still have Marte and others in minors. I'd guess India is on his way out. It's just a question of when. Unless he has a fairly massive turnaround in hitting. Defense isn't his strong suit so if he's not a bit above average hitting he doesn't move the needle much for most teams.

edit: Sorry my old eyes skipped over where you added Marte.