Jonah settling in at RT

[*ochocincos*]

Hearing from multiple people Jonah is doing really well at RT so far in TC.
Liscow and Rapien talked about it yesterday in LOB podcast. Charlie Goldsmith tweeted about it as well, saying he's "getting ready to call the right tackle battle because of how good Jonah Williams has looked."
Frank Pollack was quoted saying, "It looks like he (Williams) has been there (RT) for years."

If this plays out, the biggest question on the OL might finally be answered, and it now becomes how far along has Volson come with a full offseason?
It would be unfortunate for Jackson Carman not grabbing a starting gig in his 3rd season, but he's competing with D'Ante Smith as the swing tackle.

[SunsetBengal]

That is really encouraging that Williams is looking so good at RT. As good as he's looking, and likely will play just as well this season, it still may not be the end for Jackson Carman's chances of ever cracking the starting lineup at a Tackle position. We should also keep in mind that Williams is playing on that 5th year option, and will definitely be looking to secure a wealthy second contract as a LT, his preferred position.

As for what his natural adaptation to RT means for the Bengals THIS season? To me it means the OL should be able to open up running lanes and protect Joe equally well on either side of the line.

[*Go Cards*]

This is fantastic news, was worried about how Jonah would adjust to the position switch.

Carman and Collins backing up is a luxury as well imo.

O-line may finally be fixed

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-08-2023, 12:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is really encouraging that Williams is looking so good at RT.  As good as he's looking, and likely will play just as well this season, it still may not be the end for Jackson Carman's chances of ever cracking the starting lineup at a Tackle position.  We should also keep in mind that Williams is playing on that 5th year option, and will definitely be looking to secure a wealthy second contract as a LT, his preferred position.

As for what his natural adaptation to RT means for the Bengals THIS season?  To me it means the OL should be able to open up running lanes and protect Joe equally well on either side of the line.

Agreed.  

I think the biggest questions on the OL are: 

1) What happens with Collins? Keep or cut or PUP?   
2) Do we keep 9 or 10? 
3) What is the pecking order behind the starters? 

Brown, Volson, Karras, Cappa, & Williams will start. 

Carman is a roster lock, IMHO, but not necessarily the #3 OT (a healthy Collins couod be ahead of him at RT). His showing in the POs last year buys him another year, min. And with Jonah likely gone, him taking over at RT next year is best case scenario for us. 

But if Ford, Adeniji, or Smith really shine at tackle in camp, things get interesting quickly. There is no earhly way we start with only 3 OTs on the roster. If Collins isn't ready to play yet & someone beats out Carman for swing tackle, a cut of Collins or Carman could happen to save $$. But I doubt it. 

I think Collins on PUP + 9 is the most likely scenario. The starters + Carman (#3 OT) + Scharping (#3 G) are virtual locks. We need a backup C. We value versatility in the backups. We have seen Hill at G, Ben Brown at G, and Scharping at C. But I still think Hill has the edge for #8 over Brown.  

The next spot has to be the #4 OT. If Collins is healthy, you have to assume it is his. Unless Ford, Adeniji, or Smith really wow at camp & make him expendable. If not, the best of them take the #4 OT tackle spot with La'el on PUP. Probably Ford. 

That will leave a decision on if we carry 10 OL or not (I could see a 7th WR or CB ir a 5th S instead). If we do keep 10, Adeniji, Smith, Brown, & Kirkland are your choices. 

I mean, I think one mediocre OL guy is as good as another. If one gets nabbed off our PS is that really gonna hurt if retain another instead? At least guys oike Morgan (special teams, blocking), Ivey, M. Thomas, and Anderson have demonstrated they can help or have upside. Not sure the OL guys have. 

[SunsetBengal]

(08-08-2023, 01:29 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Agreed.  

I think the biggest questions on the OL are: 

1) What happens with Collins? Keep or cut or PUP?   
2) Do we keep 9 or 10? 
3) What is the pecking order behind the starters? 

Brown, Volson, Karras, Cappa, & Williams will start. 

Carman is a roster lock, IMHO, but not necessarily the #3 OT (a healthy Collins couod be ahead of him at RT). His showing in the POs last year buys him another year, min. And with Jonah likely gone, him taking over at RT next year is best case scenario for us. 

But if Ford, Adeniji, or Smith really shine at tackle in camp, things get interesting quickly. There is no earhly way we start with only 3 OTs on the roster. If Collins isn't ready to play yet & someone beats out Carman for swing tackle, a cut of Collins or Carman could happen to save $$. But I doubt it. 

I think Collins on PUP + 9 is the most likely scenario. The starters + Carman (#3 OT) + Scharping (#3 G) are virtual locks. We need a backup C. We value versatility in the backups. We have seen Hill at G, Ben Brown at G, and Scharping at C. But I still think Hill has the edge for #8 over Brown.  

The next spot has to be the #4 OT. If Collins is healthy, you have to assume it is his. Unless Ford, Adeniji, or Smith really wow at camp & make him expendable. If not, the best of them take the #4 OT tackle spot with La'el on PUP. Probably Ford. 

That will leave a decision on if we carry 10 OL or not (I could see a 7th WR or CB ir a 5th S instead). If we do keep 10, Adeniji, Smith, Brown, & Kirkland are your choices. 

I mean, I think one mediocre OL guy is as good as another. If one gets nabbed off our PS is that really gonna hurt if retain another instead? At least guys oike Morgan (special teams, blocking), Ivey, M. Thomas, and Anderson have demonstrated they can help or have upside. Not sure the OL guys have. 

To the bolded parts:

I think that everyone has seen what Hakeem Adeniji has to offer, while he's smart and can play 4 spots, he didn't take that physical jump in his second year like the coaches were probably hoping. I have to think that unless someone else doesn't impress or gets injured, he's on the outside looking in.  D'ante Smith is definitely last on my list of options at making the 53, other than KOR blocker, I really can't see much else in his future.  With Ford, they're looking at someone who at least has extended playing time. Who Know's, maybe a change in scenery will re-ignite his passion for the game?  He also has the ability to play 3 positions going for him.

To second bolded, I'll continue where I left off on Ford, I honestly think that the coaches had in mind for him to be the 4th tackle, at least until La'el Collins' future is ultimately determined.

As far as your pool of options for keeping 10?  I think that they would want to develop the rookie in this situation.  He's got tremendous length along with fair athleticism.  Perhaps he's the new long term development project?

[*ochocincos*]

(08-08-2023, 01:29 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Agreed.  

I think the biggest questions on the OL are: 

1) What happens with Collins? Keep or cut or PUP?   
2) Do we keep 9 or 10? 
3) What is the pecking order behind the starters? 

Brown, Volson, Karras, Cappa, & Williams will start. 

Carman is a roster lock, IMHO, but not necessarily the #3 OT (a healthy Collins couod be ahead of him at RT). His showing in the POs last year buys him another year, min. And with Jonah likely gone, him taking over at RT next year is best case scenario for us. 

But if Ford, Adeniji, or Smith really shine at tackle in camp, things get interesting quickly. There is no earhly way we start with only 3 OTs on the roster. If Collins isn't ready to play yet & someone beats out Carman for swing tackle, a cut of Collins or Carman could happen to save $$. But I doubt it. 

I think Collins on PUP + 9 is the most likely scenario. The starters + Carman (#3 OT) + Scharping (#3 G) are virtual locks. We need a backup C. We value versatility in the backups. We have seen Hill at G, Ben Brown at G, and Scharping at C. But I still think Hill has the edge for #8 over Brown.  

The next spot has to be the #4 OT. If Collins is healthy, you have to assume it is his. Unless Ford, Adeniji, or Smith really wow at camp & make him expendable. If not, the best of them take the #4 OT tackle spot with La'el on PUP. Probably Ford. 

That will leave a decision on if we carry 10 OL or not (I could see a 7th WR or CB ir a 5th S instead). If we do keep 10, Adeniji, Smith, Brown, & Kirkland are your choices. 

I mean, I think one mediocre OL guy is as good as another. If one gets nabbed off our PS is that really gonna hurt if retain another instead? At least guys oike Morgan (special teams, blocking), Ivey, M. Thomas, and Anderson have demonstrated they can help or have upside. Not sure the OL guys have. 

I think right now it's Carman vs Smith for swing tackle because Ford, Collins, and Adeniji aren't really in consideration anymore for backing up LT.
All 3 of those guys could back up OG though.
Scharping can back up both OG spots, but if he can also be a depth center, that's even more valuable.

Right now, I see it as this:
OT - Brown, Williams, Carman or Smith, Ford or Adeniji (Collins)
OG - Cappa, Volson, Scharping
C - Karras, Hill or Brown

I don't think they'd go 10 to start the season, but they might once Collins comes back.

If I was more of a betting man, I'd have Carman, Ford, and Hill making it. Adeniji and Smith cut and to the PS (if eligible), Brown to the PS.
Once Collins is ready to return, evaluate the health of the OL (and rest of offense) to see if it's better have Collins just as 10th OL, or have Collins take the spot of Ford if sticking with 9.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-08-2023, 02:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: To the bolded parts:

I think that everyone has seen what Hakeem Adeniji has to offer, while he's smart and can play 4 spots, he didn't take that physical jump in his second year like the coaches were probably hoping. I have to think that unless someone else doesn't impress or gets injured, he's on the outside looking in.  D'ante Smith is definitely last on my list of options at making the 53, other than KOR blocker, I really can't see much else in his future.  With Ford, they're looking at someone who at least has extended playing time. Who Know's, maybe a change in scenery will re-ignite his passion for the game?  He also has the ability to play 3 positions going for him.

To second bolded, I'll continue where I left off on Ford, I honestly think that the coaches had in mind for him to be the 4th tackle, at least until La'el Collins' future is ultimately determined.

As far as your pool of options for keeping 10?  I think that they would want to develop the rookie in this situation.  He's got tremendous length along with fair athleticism.  Perhaps he's the new long term development project?

This is about to be Adeniji's 4th year, not 3rd. He's turning 26 in early December. He's about what he is at this point.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-08-2023, 02:09 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This is about to be Adeniji's 4th year, not 3rd. He's turning 26 in early December. He's about what he is at this point.

Ok, I couldn't remember for sure, and didn't want to look it up in the middle of a response.  However, with that being the case, I actually see him and Smith even further on the outside looking in.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Good comments. Just to add my $0.02 on how it will shake out:

QB (2): Burrow: Siemian
RB (4): Mixon; T. Williams, C. Brown, Evans (KR)
WR (6): Chase, Higgins, Boyd; Irwin,,Iosivas, C. Jones (slot #2/PR/KR#2)
TE (3): I Smith; D. Sample, Wilcox
OT (4): O. Brown, J. Williams; Carman, Ford (G)
OG (3): Cappa, Volson; Scharping ©
C (2): Karras; T. Hill (G)
----------------------
DE (5): Hendrickson, Hubbard; Ossai, Murphy, C. Sample
NT/DT (5): Reader, BJ Hill; Tupou, Carter, Tufele
LB (5): Wilson,,Pratt; ADG, Bailey, Bachie
CB (7): Awuzie, CTB, Hilton; Turner, S. Jones, J. Davis (slot #2), Ivey
S (4): Scott, D. Hill; Battle, Anderson
------------
PK: McPherson
P/H: Robbins
LS: Adomitis
---------------------
PUP: Collins (OT)

Practice Squad (Obviously, some will get claimed): In order of closest to making the team. With # of accued seasons. I believe you can have 10 with 2+ (6 of those with unlimited).
1. M. Thomas, S, 9, Vet #1
2. S. Morgan, WR, 4, Vet #2
3. T. Basham, DE/OLB, 6, Vet #3
4. T. Taylor, WR/PR, 5, Vet #4
5. J. Gunter, DE, 1
6. T. Hudson, TE, 3, Vet #5
7. H. Adeniji, OT/G, 3, Vet #6
8. B. Brown, C/G, 1
9. J. Kirkland, G/T, R
10. A. George, CB, 0
11. J. Browning, QB, 0
12. D. Davis, DT, 0
----------I am totally guessing below here---------
13. S. Jackson, WR, 0
14. K Jones, LB, 0
15. D. Chrisman, P/H, 1
16. Leave open for Collins return?

Competing for PS spot, moving up if someone ekse claimed:
1. Asiasi, TE, 3 (needs one if the 6 vets to be off, or Wilcox PUP)
2. R. Johnson, DE, 1
3. Salyers, RB, R
4. Everyone else

With Maxwell out, I think a DT pickup is possible.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

My fringiest guys to make the team?

1. Evans, RB
2. Wilcox, TE (on PUP)
3. Anderson, S
4. T. Hill, C/G
5. Ford,, OT/G.

[*Synric*]

(08-08-2023, 12:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is really encouraging that Williams is looking so good at RT.  As good as he's looking, and likely will play just as well this season, it still may not be the end for Jackson Carman's chances of ever cracking the starting lineup at a Tackle position.  We should also keep in mind that Williams is playing on that 5th year option, and will definitely be looking to secure a wealthy second contract as a LT, his preferred position.

As for what his natural adaptation to RT means for the Bengals THIS season?  To me it means the OL should be able to open up running lanes and protect Joe equally well on either side of the line.

We also need to remember that even if Jackson Carman isn't a starter the likelihood of him getting 350 to 550 snaps this season is good because of injury. The 6th Offensive Lineman is usually an important position.

[basballguy]

My hot take....cut LC. I said this last year when we signed him...it's quite possible he was just a bad OL nestled between an All Pro guard and an All Pro TE. Then he had one year with Dalton Schultz who is also no slouch...

Well, I don't actually know if that's a hot take....and I also wouldn't say Adjeni is better than LC either...but we at least drafted him so I'd be partial to keeping him.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-08-2023, 03:56 PM)basballguy Wrote: My hot take....cut LC.  I said this last year when we signed him...it's quite possible he was just a bad OL nestled between an All Pro guard and an All Pro TE.  Then he had one year with Dalton Schultz who is also no slouch...

Well, I don't actually know if that's a hot take....and I also wouldn't say Adjeni is better than LC either...but we at least drafted him so I'd be partial to keeping him.

Hells to the no. Adeniji is badbad. LC is a servicable RT. Keep him and Carman for backup roles. The RT has been injured at the end of the season in the last 2 years. I want as many decent guys as i can have and Adeniji isn't one of those guys.

[jj22]

Great news for 2023 as the biggest question of the oline is answered. Sucks it couldn't be answered with a draft pick so we'll be asking this question again next offseason.

And maybe a couple more offseasons as we start all over at the spot.

[*Synric*]

(08-08-2023, 04:49 PM)jj22 Wrote: Great news for 2023 as the biggest question of the oline is answered. Sucks it couldn't be answered with a draft pick so we'll be asking this question again next offseason.

And maybe a couple more offseasons as we start all over at the spot.

The Offensive Tackle class for 2024 is deep. There's 3 getting top 15 pre-season talk. Joe Alt, JC Latham, and the kid from Penn State who's name you have to google every time lol. 

I think I said this somewhere else but the 2024 draft looks like its gonna be the best entire draft class since 2021. 

[*ochocincos*]

(08-08-2023, 03:56 PM)basballguy Wrote: My hot take....cut LC.  I said this last year when we signed him...it's quite possible he was just a bad OL nestled between an All Pro guard and an All Pro TE.  Then he had one year with Dalton Schultz who is also no slouch...

Well, I don't actually know if that's a hot take....and I also wouldn't say Adjeni is better than LC either...but we at least drafted him so I'd be partial to keeping him.

You can't (or shouldn't) cut Collins until he's back from PUP anyway, so may as well keep him around for the time being.
Personally, I say keep Collins, at least over the likes of Adeniji and Smith. 
Maybe over Ford too, as he was really not good in BUF/ARI. His best season as a pass blocker was as a rookie when he was playing RT though, so maybe he just needs to be outside.
Comparing Ford's 2019 to Collins' 2022:
Ford 2019 (423 pass block snaps, mostly RT) -  7 sacks, 31 total pressures
Collins 2022 (618 pass block snaps) - 5 sacks, 34 total pressures

How likely is it all the tackles and guards are healthy by the time Collins is activated off PUP anyway?

[*ochocincos*]

(08-08-2023, 05:07 PM)Synric Wrote: The Offensive Tackle class for 2024 is deep. There's 3 getting like top 15 pre-season talk. Joe Alt, JC Latham, and the kid from Penn State who's name you have to google every time lol. 

I think I said this somewhere else but the 2024 draft looks like its gonna be the best entire draft class since 2021. 

Yep but you still gotta worry about who may fall to when the Bengals pick, and if that player will be good enough to start as a rookie.
If not, you gotta have some veteran there to hold down the fort until the draft pick is ready.
Maybe that would be Carman's opportunity if Jonah walks in FA (likely) and Collins is released.

[wanga]

Encouraging but this sounds familiar TC/pre season talk. Everyone’s training the house down.

[*Synric*]

(08-08-2023, 05:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep but you still gotta worry about who may fall to when the Bengals pick, and if that player will be good enough to start as a rookie.
If not, you gotta have some veteran there to hold down the fort until the draft pick is ready.
Maybe that would be Carman's opportunity if Jonah walks in FA (likely) and Collins is released.

I just mentioned it because he was talking about fixing RT with a draft pick in 2023 but outside of the top15ish picks the offensive tackle class was almost non-existent.

Theres gonna be dudes next year later in the first like Cody Barton (more of a LT) or possibly Amarius Mims from Georgia who is intriguing at a tall 6'6 330 pounds and very athletic but like Jones before him raw. 

[kalibengal]

(08-08-2023, 01:24 PM)Go Cards Wrote: This is fantastic news, was worried about how Jonah would adjust to the position switch.

Carman and Collins backing up is a luxury as well imo.

O-line may finally be fixed

a contract yr tends to have that effect 
Remember DE Robert Geathers contract yr? He comes in looking chiseled out of granite and has his best yr ever