Why didn't the Bengals add a proven RB in the offseason

[TheFan]

(08-27-2023, 06:25 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Got a source for this?  I did a Google search for anything Mixon and contract related from January, 1,  2023  to July 13h of this year, the day before he took a pay cut,  and can't find a single quote where Mixon stated early, that being before he took the pay cut,  that he was willing to rework his contract.  

I would have bet all my dollars that either (or both) Locked on Bengals or Hear That Podcast Growling talked about it a couple times around free agency period. I also wasn't able to find anything via Google though and I'm not going to go back to listen to all of their podcasts so I could certainly be wrong. I have a distinct memory of this being discussed but understand memories aren't always reliable. 

[TheFan]

(08-27-2023, 06:31 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I would like to see your evidence to support this claim.

When Mixon signed his deal in 2020 the franchise tag for RBs was 10.28 million. In 2023, despite the salary cap going up and every other position having their franchise tag increase, the RB one has decreased to 10.09 million.

[George Cantstandya]

(08-27-2023, 07:09 PM)TheFan Wrote: I would have bet all my dollars that either (or both) Locked on Bengals or Hear That Podcast Growling talked about it a couple times around free agency period. I also wasn't able to find anything via Google though and I'm not going to go back to listen to all of their podcasts so I could certainly be wrong. I have a distinct memory of this being discussed but understand memories aren't always reliable. 

Well people on a podcast and Mixon actually saying it are two very different things.  I'd think if he said it even on podcast it would have been quoted in other forms of media. I think it would probably be kind of a big story during the slow off season news , "Mixon says he is willing to rework his contract."   But what do i know?  :)

[TheFan]

(08-27-2023, 07:15 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Well people on a podcast and Mixon actually saying it are two very different things.  I'd think if he said it even on podcast it would have been quoted in other forms of media. I think it would probably be kind of a big story during the slow off season news , "Mixon says he is willing to rework his contract."   But what do i know?  :)

I found it! Well, what they were referencing in the podcasts and what it actually meant aren't totally in line. But at least I'm not totally crazy.

It was from the Cincinnati Enquirer in late January of this year. He was quoted saying “I want to be here for the rest of my career,” Mixon said. “They drafted me. I will do whatever I can to stay here as long as possible. For my whole career, to be honest.”


So I think it's definitely debatable if he's saying he's willing to restructure his contract with that quote but that's what they discussed in the podcasts, in addition to everything that happened with the RB market in early free agency,  

[George Cantstandya]

(08-27-2023, 07:26 PM)TheFan Wrote: I found it! Well, what they were referencing in the podcasts and what it actually meant aren't totally in line. But at least I'm not totally crazy.

It was from the Cincinnati Enquirer in late January of this year. He was quoted saying “I want to be here for the rest of my career,” Mixon said. “They drafted me. I will do whatever I can to stay here as long as possible. For my whole career, to be honest.”

So I think it's definitely debatable if he's saying he's willing to restructure his contract with that quote but that's what they discussed in the podcasts, in addition to everything that happened with the RB market in early free agency,

Yeah that's a bit of a stretch from, "I will do whatever I can to stay here as long as possible. For my whole career, to be honest." to early on in free agency saying "I'm willing to rework my contract," which he never said.  Many  players say they want to be with a team as long as possible and will do whatever it takes.  Heck I seem to recall Hayden Hurst saying he found a home here.  Where is he now?  :)

Edit:  And for the record I have nothing against Mixon.  I'd be thrilled if he comes close this year to his 2021 stats.  I just don't think he took such a huge pay cut because he just wanted to stay with the team.  I think given the RB market and given his production last year he knew he didn't have any better options.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 07:11 PM)TheFan Wrote: When Mixon signed his deal in 2020 the franchise tag for RBs was 10.28 million. In 2023, despite the salary cap going up and every other position having their franchise tag increase, the RB one has decreased to 10.09 million.

A reduction of less than 2%. Asking Mixon to take a 40% pay cut is significantly different than a 2% pay cut to reflect the current RB market according to your figures.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 02:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True and breaking tackles is what the best RB's do well.


Who is this Jones at RB?

You mean Chase Brown?

The most important thing we need in our pass first Offense is a RB that can pass protect as well as catch passes.

Mixon has had a problem in pass protection and also as noted doesn't break tackles well. Hope he improves in these aspects this year.

We will see.


Exactly, also if he didn't take the pay cut he would of been cut. Happy he took the pay cut and is still around and hope he plays well.

Zac says the right things about all his players. The praise Pollack has put on Mixon raised my eyebrows more than what Zac said.

Pollack said Mixon has worked harder this season in all aspects to improve his game, Mixon knows he didn't have the best year last 
year besides the Panthers game. Hope we see a lot more consistency this season from him in running the ball and trying to pass 
protect. If so and the OL is much better he could have a great year and shut people like me up, that would be awesome.

So some might say he was “coasting” to collect a paycheck.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 07:26 PM)TheFan Wrote: I found it! Well, what they were referencing in the podcasts and what it actually meant aren't totally in line. But at least I'm not totally crazy.

It was from the Cincinnati Enquirer in late January of this year. He was quoted saying “I want to be here for the rest of my career,” Mixon said. “They drafted me. I will do whatever I can to stay here as long as possible. For my whole career, to be honest.”


So I think it's definitely debatable if he's saying he's willing to restructure his contract with that quote but that's what they discussed in the podcasts, in addition to everything that happened with the RB market in early free agency,  

I’m not a subscriber and can’t read the original article for context.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bengals/comments/10moj2e/the_enquirer_why_joe_mixon_wants_to_spend_the/

But, according to that link Mixon was referring to a reduced role on offense. Not taking a pay cut.

Hard to judge without reading the article.

[TheFan]

(08-27-2023, 08:13 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: A reduction of less than 2%. Asking Mixon to take a 40% pay cut is significantly different than a 2% pay cut to reflect the current RB market according to your figures.

You're acting ignorant to the fact that the salary cap goes up each year (minus the covid year) and I'm not sure why. I get wanting to prove your point and stick to your opinion but it's okay to admit you could possibly be wrong. Or at least that the correct answer is somewhere in the middle. Even with the covid year where the NFL lost almost 8% the salary cap has increased a significant amount. 

I understand your fascination with constantly trying to prove Sooner wrong but dying on the hill that the Bengals dislike Mixon isn't a good one. He may not be their top priority but he wouldn't be here if they didn't want him. 

[Soonerpeace]

(08-27-2023, 09:01 PM)TheFan Wrote: You're acting ignorant to the fact that the salary cap goes up each year (minus the covid year) and I'm not sure why. I get wanting to prove your point and stick to your opinion but it's okay to admit you could possibly be wrong. Or at least that the correct answer is somewhere in the middle. Even with the covid year where the NFL lost almost 8% the salary cap has increased a significant amount. 

I understand your fascination with constantly trying to prove Sooner wrong but dying on the hill that the Bengals dislike Mixon isn't a good one. He may not be their top priority but he wouldn't be here if they didn't want him. 

Key word trying. Better word “flunking”

[SouthernFan]

(08-27-2023, 09:34 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Key word trying. Better word “flunking”

You enjoy poking the bear? 

[Soonerpeace]

(08-27-2023, 10:03 PM)SouthernFan Wrote: You enjoy poking the bear? 

I’ve haven’t had this much fun in years. Watching his obsession.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 09:01 PM)TheFan Wrote: You're acting ignorant to the fact that the salary cap goes up each year (minus the covid year) and I'm not sure why. I get wanting to prove your point and stick to your opinion but it's okay to admit you could possibly be wrong. Or at least that the correct answer is somewhere in the middle. Even with the covid year where the NFL lost almost 8% the salary cap has increased a significant amount. 

I understand your fascination with constantly trying to prove Sooner wrong but dying on the hill that the Bengals dislike Mixon isn't a good one. He may not be their top priority but he wouldn't be here if they didn't want him. 

The RB franchise tag as a percentage of the total salary cap amount fell from 5.19% in 2020 to 4.49% in 2023. Or a reduction of 0.7%. Not even close to a 40% adjustment. If you have figures that indicate otherwise I’m willing to re-evaluate.

Show me where I wrote the Bengals don’t like Mixon.

[TheFan]

(08-27-2023, 10:17 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The RB franchise tag as a percentage of the total salary cap amount fell from 5.19% in 2020 to 4.49% in 2023. Or a reduction of 0.7%. Not even close to a 40% adjustment. If you have figures that indicate otherwise I’m willing to re-evaluate.

Show me where I wrote the Bengals don’t like Mixon.

"2023 has been a terrible year for veteran running backs. The number of running backs with contracts averaging $12 million per year or more has been cut in half thanks to releases and pay cuts. There were eight at the end of last season. Four remain. 

NFL teams exercised fiscal restraint with running backs in free agency this year. Nobody hit the $7 million per mark, which represents the top of the second salary tier for running back compensation, with a deal like what James Conner and Leonard Fournette did in 2022 free agency."


Numerous contemporaries also either restructured their own deals or were cut. 


You stating "Mixon is like the girlfriend who is way too much drama and high maintenance they gave an ultimatum to get their shit together or pack their shit and get out" Is clearly an indicator you think they don't want Mixon. They obviously do or they would have cut him. Asking him to take a pay cut doesn't mean they don't like him since that's what was happening to the entire RB market. Do your own Google searches to inform your opinion vs just continually saying the same thing over and over and telling people to prove you wrong. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-27-2023, 10:33 PM)TheFan Wrote: "2023 has been a terrible year for veteran running backs. The number of running backs with contracts averaging $12 million per year or more has been cut in half thanks to releases and pay cuts. There were eight at the end of last season. Four remain. 

That affected a total of four of the highest paid RBs. Four. Im not even going to look it up, but I bet there were reasons why.

Quote:NFL teams exercised fiscal restraint with running backs in free agency this year. Nobody hit the $7 million per mark, which represents the top of the second salary tier for running back compensation, with a deal like what James Conner and Leonard Fournette did in 2022 free agency."


Numerous contemporaries also either restructured their own deals or were cut. 

The top free agent RBs were franchised tagged. The remaining weren’t worth more than $7M/yr. It was a shit year for veteran RB FAs because there wasn’t elite FA talent available. And they were paid accordingly. Look at the list and tell me who you think should have been paid more.

Despite all of the above, your previous figures indicate the RBs market share only decreased by 0.7% from 2020 to 2023. So if you wanted to adjust Mixon contract based upon the RB market you would ask for a 0.7% pay cut. Not 40%.

Quote:You stating "Mixon is like the girlfriend who is way too much drama and high maintenance they gave an ultimatum to get their shit together or pack their shit and get out" Is clearly an indicator you think they don't want Mixon. They obviously do or they would have cut him. Asking him to take a pay cut doesn't mean they don't like him since that's what was happening to the entire RB market. Do your own Google searches to inform you opinion vs just continually saying the same thing over and over and telling people to prove you wrong. 

To confirm, I never wrote the Bengals don’t like Mixon as you falsely claimed. But, I did suggest they essentially gave him a one year prove it deal. Which they did. Thanks for the confirmation. I’m sure they like every individual who makes the team as a player. Players are paid based upon a mix of value, ability, and production. They are not paid based upon feelings. And they are not asked to take a 40% pay cut based upon management’s level of affection toward them.

As to the bold, you made the claim about the decreased RB market, not me. It’s not up to me to Google your claims. That’s your job. I didn’t ask you to prove me wrong. I simply asked to see your evidence. I asked you to prove you correct. Your evidence doesn’t support your claim. The RB market has decreased 0.7% during the past 4 seasons, 4 RBs making >$12M/yr were released or had their pay cut for various reasons we haven’t discussed, and it was a shitty year for quality FA RBs so they didn’t get paid big bucks. Sorry, but that doesn’t indicate “the RB market has completely changed.” That indicates the RB market has changed 0.7%.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-27-2023, 10:14 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’ve haven’t had this much fun in years. Watching his obsession.

LOL can't set a link *sighs
I'm sure you know this one:

Sittin' in the mornin' sun
I'll be sittin' when the evenin' comes
Watching the ships roll in
Then I watch 'em roll away again, yeah
I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Watchin' the tide roll away, ooh
I'm just sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time

[Soonerpeace]

(08-28-2023, 01:18 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: LOL can't set a link *sighs
I'm sure you know this one:

Sittin' in the mornin' sun
I'll be sittin' when the evenin' comes
Watching the ships roll in
Then I watch 'em roll away again, yeah
I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Watchin' the tide roll away, ooh
I'm just sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time

I’m just flattered that someone was so intrigued to analyze each and every word on each and every post. I put him on ignore several days ago and it still shows he’s quoting me more than ever.

[Soonerpeace]

Looks like Trayveon is Perine’s replacement Sunday

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/one-cincinnati-bengals-biggest-questions-remains-unanswered-nfl-2023/

[*ochocincos*]

(08-27-2023, 08:13 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: A reduction of less than 2%. Asking Mixon to take a 40% pay cut is significantly different than a 2% pay cut to reflect the current RB market according to your figures.

I think the RB market comes down to supply and demand.
Out of the top 30 players in yards from scrimmage, 18 are RBs.
And there's typically just 1 RB on the field at a given time. Compare that to 2-3 WRs on the field.
24 RBs totaled 1000+ yards from scrimmage.

With so many RBs being able to get that much production, why do you need to pay premium money for one when you can just draft a guy and still get ~1000 yards or more?

Yes, there will be those guys that are getting 1500+ yards from scrimmage, and those guys will get the premium money, but why give someone like Mixon so much $$ when you can have Fournette or Sanders at $7 mill or less APY and they are just about as productive?

[depthchart]

(09-07-2023, 12:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think the RB market comes down to supply and demand.
Out of the top 30 players in yards from scrimmage, 18 are RBs.
And there's typically just 1 RB on the field at a given time. Compare that to 2-3 WRs on the field.
24 RBs totaled 1000+ yards from scrimmage.

With so many RBs being able to get that much production, why do you need to pay premium money for one when you can just draft a guy and still get ~1000 yards or more?

Yes, there will be those guys that are getting 1500+ yards from scrimmage, and those guys will get the premium money, but why give someone like Mixon so much $$ when you can have Fournette or Sanders at $7 mill or less APY and they are just about as productive?

What you said plus I believe AGE.

Around the age of 27 and 28 running backs tend to start losing their Burst and may become more likely to start getting nagging injuries.

Ezekiel Elliott (who turned 28 in July) appears to be a good example when it comes to losing some Burst.

Teams can Draft young, fresh rookies that still have that youthful Burst plus have less wear and tear on their bodies.

The same Teams can then still get an older, experienced veteran that may be age 27 or older and may be starting to decline at a reasonable cost to use while they get the younger backs on their Roster some experience.

*There are always outliers (like Barry Sanders that stayed healthy & played very well at age 27, 28, 29 & 30.
  Teams could take advantage of this trend if they could hit on an outlier that gets undervalued by the League but can still be highly productive 
  into his early 30's .