Andy Dalton, assuming the position..

[OSUfan]

(05-29-2015, 01:04 AM)Steeler Eater Wrote: A lot of those wins are thanks to his supporting cast. If you put an Elite QB on this team with the D we have had in the past, you could be talking about 16-0.

If you put an elite QB on most teams you are going to see a major difference as there are only 3-4 elite QBs in the entire league. Not sure why you even get these supporting cast comments as the idea of a good NFL franchise is to build the best one you can. However, when it comes to Andy it is a knock on him by some that the Bengals are trying to do that.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-28-2015, 04:34 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: How many times has dalton "improved his leadership" or is "tryin to".

Leadership, you either have it or you don't.

So, do you think Tom Brady had it when he was drafted in the 6th round and was asked to back up Drew Bledsoe?    I'm just saying that I think it can be developed. 

[BonnieBengal]

(05-29-2015, 07:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: So, do you think Tom Brady had it when he was drafted in the 6th round and was asked to back up Drew Bledsoe?    I'm just saying that I think it can be developed. 

It can certainly be developed. Leadership is something you learn. I think Andy is working on every aspect of his game, including leadership.

[Harmening]

(05-29-2015, 08:13 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: It can certainly be developed.  Leadership is something you learn.  I think Andy is working on every aspect of his game, including leadership.

It's also somewhat of an "IT" factor, if that makes any sense.
The people who have "IT", just have it.  When it comes time to use it, they excel.
Schools, parents, coaches can 'try' all they want to develop it, but I think it is something you are just born with.

[Harmening]

(05-29-2015, 07:55 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: So, do you think Tom Brady had it when he was drafted in the 6th round and was asked to back up Drew Bledsoe?    I'm just saying that I think it can be developed. 

He already had it, and used it when it was his time.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-29-2015, 08:38 AM)Harmening Wrote: It's also somewhat of an "IT" factor, if that makes any sense.
The people who have "IT", just have it.  When it comes time to use it, they excel.
Schools, parents, coaches can 'try' all they want to develop it, but I think it is something you are just born with.

Basically agree,

But I do believe nearly nothing is 100% across the board always. In other words for the most part people are either born leaders - or they're not, and it comes out right when needed. A few, a very few, can slowly grow into the role and didn't realize they had "it".

For the most part Andy hasn't been "the" leader. But I wouldn't say he can't ever be ! But in the same breath I have big doubts about him in many areas, leadership among them.

[WhoDeyWho]

(05-28-2015, 08:30 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: To me the number one thing Dalton has to fix is his confidence ! You could see it eroding away last season. Perhaps he's regained it and is ready to step up and be the leader. But I'll believe it when I see it. I've seen him hanging his head one to many times to believe he's just suddenly all better.

That's funny.  One complaint I hear is that he is always on the sideline with a big smile on his face.  

[djs7685]

(05-29-2015, 09:59 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: That's funny.  One complaint I hear is that he is always on the sideline with a big smile on his face.  

You sure you aren't thinking of somebody else?

[*Nately120*]

(05-29-2015, 01:06 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: No denying you have a point.  There are not a lot of elite QBs though.  I would have like to have seen how Carson would have done throwing to Green if he hadn't pitched a hissy fit and left.  I'll always wonder about that

Hard to say because Carson sticking around probably would have required Marvin Lewis getting the boot.

Dalton and Marvin vs. Carson and ???

[Junglejuice]

(05-29-2015, 01:04 AM)Steeler Eater Wrote: A lot of those wins are thanks to his supporting cast. If you put an Elite QB on this team with the D we have had in the past, you could be talking about 16-0.

I personally think the what-if posts are kinda weak.

There is just as good of a chance as the elite QB not winning.
Too many variables.
It's not just the QB
Look at the Patriots.... If Gronk does not return to form last year the Patriots could have nosedived. Elite QB or not.

Also ditch the win in spite of Dalton argument.
His worst year as a starter was also our worst year on D and even in our best year on D in his tenure he set the Franchise records in 2013 so its not like they carried him in a year of 14-10  or 10-7 victories ala the Baltimore D in 2000.

2012 and 2013 were both great years for Dalton.
More of the case of things firing until the playoff debacles which all 3 phases had a hand in losing for us.

[djs7685]

(05-29-2015, 01:15 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: 1. There is just as good of a chance as the elite QB not winning.


2. 2012 and 2013 were both great years for Dalton.

1. That's a bit ridiculous to say. Assuming everything else is identical, surely the QB matters more than "just as good of a chance" whether it was Andy Dalton or Aaron Rodgers at the helm. It makes zero sense to say there's no difference in our chances with a top tier QB, that would certainly make a difference for just about any team in the league, not just us. It's not bashing Andy, that's just being realistic. Any team without one of the 4 or 5 top guys would benefit greatly to have one of them.

2. It would be nice to see him have a great 2015 compared to his peers and not just a year that's great compared to his other years as a pro. So far, he's thrown a lot of TDs this one time and everyone seems to think that's the greatest accomplishment we could ever ask for. How dare you question a guy that's had a total of 1 great statistic in 4 years as a professional!

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-29-2015, 09:59 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: That's funny.  One complaint I hear is that he is always on the sideline with a big smile on his face.  

A lot of people mistake his grimace as a smile. 

[jj22]

I never thought leadership was Daltons problem. Look at some of the trouble other young qb's get into on twitter and such. You never have to worry about that with Dalton. His work ethic is strong. Or else he wouldn't be able to bounce back from his bad games like he does.

[WhoDeyWho]

(05-29-2015, 01:27 PM)djs7685 Wrote: 1. That's a bit ridiculous to say. Assuming everything else is identical, surely the QB matters more than "just as good of a chance" whether it was Andy Dalton or Aaron Rodgers at the helm. It makes zero sense to say there's no difference in our chances with a top tier QB, that would certainly make a difference for just about any team in the league, not just us. It's not bashing Andy, that's just being realistic. Any team without one of the 4 or 5 top guys would benefit greatly to have one of them.

2. It would be nice to see him have a great 2015 compared to his peers and not just a year that's great compared to his other years as a pro. So far, he's thrown a lot of TDs this one time and everyone seems to think that's the greatest accomplishment we could ever ask for. How dare you question a guy that's had a total of 1 great statistic in 4 years as a professional!

There was only a 1 point difference in rating between his 2012 and 2013 campaigns.  27 TDs isn't really anything to slouch at either.  

[djs7685]

(05-29-2015, 04:07 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: There was only a 1 point difference in rating between his 2012 and 2013 campaigns.  27 TDs isn't really anything to slouch at either.  

For sure, saying that he only had 1 good statistic in his career was a bit tongue-in-cheek. My point is that I don't understand why people flip the second somebody doesn't have confidence in him or has some skepticism when there is a conversation about his ability. He hasn't been so impressive in his career thus far to get the benefit of the doubt that some around the league have gotten.

It's not just Andy though, if a handful of other NFL starters were on this team, I'd act the same way. Unless you have one of the guys that are clearly one of the top 10 of their respective position, there's always going to be valid criticism and a lot to dissect about them. Not every player on the roster can be an All-Pro, you still need your working bees that don't eat up a ton of cap space, but QB is one place where it's nice to have a good one. I think Andy is fine for now, I'm not one of the guys that wants him gone, but that could change after 2015 and 5 years of giving him more chances.

[PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop]

The title of this thread makes me think of Animal House.

"Assume the position."

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-29-2015, 09:59 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: That's funny.  One complaint I hear is that he is always on the sideline with a big smile on his face.  

What does Andy Dalton standing on the sideline smiling have to do with his confidence while playing on the field ?

But I understand some frustration from people about him laughing, joking, on the sideline after his 3rd straight three and out when he can't hit the ocean from the beach and the team looks like the keystone cops !

[Tiger Teeth]

(05-29-2015, 08:04 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: What does Andy Dalton standing on the sideline smiling have to do with his confidence while playing on the field ?

But I understand some frustration from people about him laughing, joking, on the sideline after his 3rd straight three and out when he can't hit the ocean from the beach and the team looks like the keystone cops !

Yeah, I'll be reppin' this!

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-29-2015, 08:39 AM)Harmening Wrote: He already had it, and used it when it was his time.

Yeah, after he evolved from being Captain Checkdown with an amazing supporting cast and he was able to observe many leaders on his team as a young player.  Who did Dalton have?  Whitworth and....well, Whitworth. 

Andy has done everything you could ask of a young QB except win in the playoffs.  Don't get me wrong, that is a big exception.  However, the people that think the defense and much of his supporting cast have also laid the proverbial egg in the playoffs.  Hopefully, Andy becomes even more vocal and with the addition of veterans such as MJ and AJ Hawk, the team will start attacking in the playoffs. 

[Harmening]

(05-29-2015, 10:26 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, after he evolved from being Captain Checkdown with an amazing supporting cast and he was able to observe many leaders on his team as a young player.  Who did Dalton have?  Whitworth and....well, Whitworth. 

Andy has done everything you could ask of a young QB except win in the playoffs.  Don't get me wrong, that is a big exception.  However, the people that think the defense and much of his supporting cast have also laid the proverbial egg in the playoffs.  Hopefully, Andy becomes even more vocal and with the addition of veterans such as MJ and AJ Hawk, the team will start attacking in the playoffs. 

So, do you see similarities?