Outcoached?

[XenoMorph]

(09-11-2023, 05:14 PM)Housh Wrote: Everyone in the game thread was talking about playcalling

The line wasn’t bad.

I think the Bengals line has been so ass that not it’s cool and fun to crap on the o line. I saw a line that played well yesterday Burrow was just ass. When you go on Facebook and X and ppl are shitting on Orlando and the line i think that’s just Chiefs and Browns fans. Brown gave up a sack to Myles Garrett. If your scale of what a good game is “give up 1 sack to Garrett and it’s a bad game automatically” then you are just trolling.




Something was up with Joe today. It may have been mental but to me it looked as if his grip had no power and that’s not just rain. I heard someone float around the idea that he had a thumb injury too. The route designs were vanilla and we didn’t even try and vary up the run game. That run game debacle is on Zac for calling the same run every 1st down. If you run on 1st every time you’ve got to be ready to run on second down a lot too and it appeared as if we went pass on nearly every 2nd down too. Then factor in you basically gotta pass on 3rd down, and you basically realize the Browns probably knew when we were running and passing. Then we subbed in Williams and Evans and those weee usually all passes. Think those 2 had 4 rushes total. With Mixon in we were a bit less predictable but it was still Uber predictable because we ran on every 1st down and passed on every 3rd down except 1 or 2. Then almost every pass was a sideline pass so we were cooked

For as much as that OL is getting Paid they looked BAD  and Joe even Worse for the return on investment.

Cant start the season flat every damn year.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

I don't think the playcalling was THAT bad: look at all of the sideline throws to our guys, how many bounced off of hands or where the balls weren't placed well: if half of those are caught, we have a minimum of 14 more points than we did.

The issues were a bit of everything, but execution was the main thing: Joe was off, WRs were off and the weather f'd things up as well (as they did for the Browns).

[impactplaya]

(09-12-2023, 10:24 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I don't think the playcalling was THAT bad: look at all of the sideline throws to our guys, how many bounced off of hands or where the balls weren't placed well: if half of those are caught, we have a minimum of 14 more points than we did.

The issues were a bit of everything, but execution was the main thing: Joe was off, WRs were off and the weather f'd things up as well (as they did for the Browns).

The playcalling was atrocious 
The Bengals didn't fool Jim Schwartz one bit

[RegularGuy22]

If the weather was an issue then why did they kick azz in Buffalo in a snowstorm?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-12-2023, 10:38 AM)impactplaya Wrote: The playcalling was atrocious 
The Bengals didn't fool Jim Schwartz one bit

Sure, Mr. all-knowing Guru

[THE PISTONS]

(09-11-2023, 11:24 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The reality is Burrow was just horrible yesterday.  Whatever the reason, be it injury, lack of practice, etc... if he cant play better due to whatever reason it was, he is not helping the team being out there.  Put someone else in there until Burrow is ready.

He was terrible, but the chart in the opening thread shows a massive lack of open receivers and bad coverage on defense.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-12-2023, 10:24 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I don't think the playcalling was THAT bad: look at all of the sideline throws to our guys, how many bounced off of hands or where the balls weren't placed well: if half of those are caught, we have a minimum of 14 more points than we did.

The issues were a bit of everything, but execution was the main thing: Joe was off, WRs were off and the weather f'd things up as well (as they did for the Browns).

The WR's clearly didn't get open too...for whatever reason. Odd because they went single-coverage man a lot.

[Soonerpeace]

(09-12-2023, 10:39 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: If the weather was an issue then why did they kick azz in Buffalo in a snowstorm?

Well rain and snow completely different

[RegularGuy22]

(09-12-2023, 11:18 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well rain and snow completely different

I figured someone would say that. BS, snow is basically rain isn't it with a bit colder upper atmosphere before it hits the ground? How are they different? Ball and field are still wet. If JB can't play in the rain then they have a major problem. Can't tell me these guys have never played in wet conditions although Chase and Higgens both said before Buffalo game it was their first snow game. They played pretty well as I remember.

Browns had no trouble putting up 24 on the same field in the same conditions.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-12-2023, 10:24 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I don't think the playcalling was THAT bad: look at all of the sideline throws to our guys, how many bounced off of hands or where the balls weren't placed well: if half of those are caught, we have a minimum of 14 more points than we did.

The issues were a bit of everything, but execution was the main thing: Joe was off, WRs were off and the weather f'd things up as well (as they did for the Browns).

That, and totally guessing what Cleveland would do on defense due to no film on them under Schwartz. They guessed wrong and weren't able to adjust, imo.

[Sled21]

(09-12-2023, 11:27 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: I figured someone would say that. BS, snow is basically rain isn't it with a bit colder upper atmosphere before it hits the ground? How are they different? Ball and field are still wet. If JB can't play in the rain then they have a major problem. Can't tell me these guys have never played in wet conditions although Chase and Higgens both said before Buffalo game it was their first snow game. They played pretty well as I remember.

Browns had no trouble putting up 24 on the same field in the same conditions.

The ball doesn't get soaking wet when frozen snow hits it. The snow falls off instead of saturating it like rain does. Did you never play football in the rain and snow? And obviously you did not watch the game, the Browns had as much problem throwing it as we did.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-11-2023, 11:33 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Miami's OL isn't great, or even particularly good, I don't believe...

What would be interesting is if we could see all of the routes ran and not just what was targeted. Lance McCallister noted that Burrow rarely, if ever, targeted anything over the middle. With the way he was throwing the ball, maybe he was concerned about sailing one right into a defender's hands in the traffic. If that were the case, that's kind of smart. As Dirty Harry said, "a man's got to know his limitations". Also, on that chart posted earlier, it doesn't show where the target started the route from, like it does with Tyreek Hill. 

[Soonerpeace]

(09-12-2023, 11:27 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: I figured someone would say that. BS, snow is basically rain isn't it with a bit colder upper atmosphere before it hits the ground? How are they different? Ball and field are still wet. If JB can't play in the rain then they have a major problem. Can't tell me these guys have never played in wet conditions although Chase and Higgens both said before Buffalo game it was their first snow game. They played pretty well as I remember.

Browns had no trouble putting up 24 on the same field in the same conditions.

Listen to yesterday’s press conferences. Get back to me.

[Sled21]

(09-12-2023, 12:01 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Listen to yesterday’s press conferences. Get back to me.

Better yet, go stand outside for 10 minutes when it's snowing, and then go outside for 10 minutes when it's raining. Get back to us on how wet you are.

[Soonerpeace]

(09-12-2023, 12:05 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Better yet, go stand outside for 10 minutes when it's snowing, and then go outside for 10 minutes when it's raining. Get back to us on how wet you are.

No kidding. But Joe seemed to struggle slightly more than Watson. I’m a ZT worshipper but you can’t dismiss our slow starts. 3 points is 3 points. Losing is one thing and KC & the Bills lost too but they didn’t look inept. The OL had some continuity as did the whole offense and staff. Should expect more. The defense looked ready.

[Sled21]

(09-12-2023, 12:23 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: No kidding. But Joe seemed to struggle slightly more than Watson. I’m a ZT worshipper but you can’t dismiss our slow starts. 3 points is 3 points. Losing is one thing and KC & the Bills lost too but they didn’t look inept. The OL had some continuity as did the whole offense and staff. Should expect more.  The defense looked ready.

Yes, that's why I'm not concerned. Burrow, Chase and Higgins (and Boyd) will fix whatever was going on (unless it is Burrow's injury) and defense looked good to me before they got worn out.

[Nepa]

(09-12-2023, 11:58 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The ball doesn't get soaking wet when frozen snow hits it. The snow falls off instead of saturating it like rain does. Did you never play football in the rain and snow? And obviously you did not watch the game, the Browns had as much problem throwing it as we did.

Sled, I think you were the one who raised the issue of the indoor practice facility, basically implying that it didn't prepare players for the conditions they encountered on Sunday. I could be wrong, and it could have been someone else. But that is an interesting point, regardless of who brought it up.

What Zac said after the game seemed to echo that the team was not well prepared to play in those conditions, noting they didn't handle the weather conditions well and that it was a "real challenge" with the passing game "with those conditions."

It makes me feel that they should practice outdoors some days when conditions (heavy rain or snow) are difficult.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-12-2023, 10:06 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Can't see that happening but the weather may have dictated an inability for JB to grip the ball very well due to his hand size.  I know I have smaller hands and can throw the ball fine as long as the conditions are good but once the ball is wet I have no control over it.  Just a guess, it sure didn't bother him against Buffalo in the playoffs last year.

I'm just baffled they continued to throw in those conditions when the run game was doing well.  That's on ZT.

But was the run game doing well?  We had one series where we ran well in 1st half, but most of the runs outside of 1 series, went for less than 4 yards... early into 2nd half we were so behind we had to pass the ball or try to

1st possession: 2 carries 6 yards
2nd possession 1 carry 3 yards
3rd possession 1 carry 3 yards
4th possession 1 carry 7 yards ( 3 and 22)
5th possession 4 carries 51 yards... we had 44 of that 2 carries in a row, then we got 7 on 2 carries and passed on 3rd down
6th possession 2 carries 2 yards

So outside of two runs long runs and a 7 yard carry on a 3rd and 22 i believe we had 21 yards on 7 carries.. 3 yard avg.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-12-2023, 12:05 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Better yet, go stand outside for 10 minutes when it's snowing, and then go outside for 10 minutes when it's raining. Get back to us on how wet you are.

I will say this.  My son is a TE/WR on JV.  I have more than once thrown passes to him for practice in the pouring rain and I have never had an issue gripping or throwing the football.  35-40 yards is all my old arm has left in it, but I could hit him on go routes at those distances with no issues.  Again, in the pouring rain.  Yes, that is completely anecdotal, but something was up with Burrow imo and not just a wet football.

[reuben.ahmed]

(09-12-2023, 12:23 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: No kidding. But Joe seemed to struggle slightly more than Watson. I’m a ZT worshipper but you can’t dismiss our slow starts. 3 points is 3 points. Losing is one thing and KC & the Bills lost too but they didn’t look inept. The OL had some continuity as did the whole offense and staff. Should expect more.  The defense looked ready.

what would ZT's record be without Joe burrow?

If we think JB brings a wins above replacement of 2-3 at least we miss playoffs ever year.