Zac Taylor play calling is trash!

[*ochocincos*]

(11-16-2023, 01:18 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I hope as well: he came from Princeton, so we know he has the mental capacity to grasp the routes.

Exactly.

Iosivas has the smarts and athleticism to become a good player quickly.
He's just coming from a program that you really didn't need to do a whole lot because the competition on the field wasn't nearly as good as the Power 5 conferences.

My opinion is Iosivas is coming along just fine. He's a 6th rounder. Many 6th rounders don't even make a team, and if they do it's usually just ST. The fact Iosivas is even getting some offensive snaps is a testament to how he's coming along.

[Mike M (the other one)]

Dam, I'd hate to be a Bengals coach.
If we win, it's in spite of the coaching, If we lose it's cause of coaching.
What ever happened to player execution? Notice when the players execute well we win?

[TheFan]

(11-29-2023, 04:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Dam, I'd hate to be a Bengals coach.
If we win, it's in spite of the coaching, If we lose it's cause of coaching.
What ever happened to player execution? Notice when the players execute well we win?

I mean it's not just Bengals fans on this forum. There's been talk since last year from people who study the game, former players, etc who have raised concerns and issues about the play calling. Now on defense I'll give some leeway that it's more of a player issue than just scheme because they don't have a Watt type player which we have multiple of on offense.

But the slowness to adjust, poor play calling, questionable schemes, and awful run game are something that have been talked about for years. Why should the offensive play callers not receive blame for what they aren't able to do without a top 2 QB in the league? If Burrow isn't completely healthy/playing they have no idea how to scheme a competent offense. That has been evident since they took over. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-29-2023, 04:49 PM)TheFan Wrote: I mean it's not just Bengals fans on this forum. There's been talk since last year from people who study the game, former players, etc who have raised concerns and issues about the play calling. Now on defense I'll give some leeway that it's more of a player issue than just scheme because they don't have a Watt type player which we have multiple of on offense.

But the slowness to adjust, poor play calling, questionable schemes, and awful run game are something that have been talked about for years. Why should the offensive play callers not receive blame for what they aren't able to do without a top 2 QB in the league? If Burrow isn't completely healthy/playing they have no idea how to scheme a competent offense. That has been evident since they took over. 

You mean like when Burrow finally figured out the coaches were correct that you can't keep tossing it deep vs cover 2? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-29-2023, 04:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Dam, I'd hate to be a Bengals coach.
If we win, it's in spite of the coaching, If we lose it's cause of coaching.
What ever happened to player execution? Notice when the players execute well we win?

Used to be rough being the QB with those stipulations....

[*ochocincos*]

(11-29-2023, 04:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Dam, I'd hate to be a Bengals coach.
If we win, it's in spite of the coaching, If we lose it's cause of coaching.
What ever happened to player execution? Notice when the players execute well we win?

I think people would be more willing to blame the players instead of the coaching staff if 1) the coaches mostly had success elsewhere, and 2) the offensive players didn't perform better elsewhere before becoming Bengals.

Look at how well the outside veteran OL did in their previous teams before coming to CIN?
Brown, Karras, and Cappa haven't had the success in CIN that they had previously.

[TheFan]

(11-29-2023, 04:55 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You mean like when Burrow finally figured out the coaches were correct that you can't keep tossing it deep vs cover 2? 

Yes, Burrow was the problem and the reason Taylor coached the 30th, 29th, and currently 23rd ranked offenses without him being fully healthy and carrying them. The two years Burrow was healthy we ranked 7th. But sure, it's a Burrow problem. 

[*Go Cards*]

(11-28-2023, 03:13 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Lol what was the % of the time we threw though? You're just looking at the total numbers when we had am inept offense that couldn't stay on the field.

basically 70/30

a little too much for a back up QB making his 1st start imo, especially when you've got a seasoned vet wearing a C on his jersey at RB and Higgins is out. 

Yet believe that will change going forward.

[*Go Cards*]

(11-28-2023, 01:18 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: We won’t know but Joe has neglected the TE’s slightly. He’s probably neglecting Yoshi. And that’s not unusual until you prove yourself. So this isn’t some high criticism. Joey B was like this at LSU. All QB’s have their favorites.

Have you ever noticed my Avatar is the only Oklahoma coach you don't know. Oklahoma did that man wrong.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-29-2023, 07:12 PM)TheFan Wrote: Yes, Burrow was the problem and the reason Taylor coached the 30th, 29th, and currently 23rd ranked offenses without him being fully healthy and carrying them. The two years Burrow was healthy we ranked 7th. But sure, it's a Burrow problem. 

You'd be better off arguing it's more of a communication thing. 
Everyone needs to communicate better. I'm not sure if the players know their assignments (which would be a coach communication issue) or if they aren't capable of doing what's needed (which is on the player). 

All i can say is, sometimes they look good and others they look like poo. 

[Soonerpeace]

(11-29-2023, 08:21 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Have you ever noticed my Avatar is the only Oklahoma coach you don't know. Oklahoma did that man wrong.

I agree. I took up for him. I didn’t like how he was treated one bit. And he I never got to know. He wasn’t a fit. He made a lot of mistakes. He brushed off Switzer poorly. He told the President David Boren ( a Rhodes Scholar and head of the US Foreign Relations committee as a Senator) to stay out of his way. A player for lack of water almost died in August practices as he wouldn’t allow water. He also was characterized as a drunk which he wasn’t. He took snorts several times a day but the media people I knew very well and people in Norman were complimentary. None of them ever thought he was drunk or out of control. Extreme gentleman and damn good football coach.

[jj22]

They’ve schemed a perfect offense before. Plenty of them. SF I’d argue. Many good showings (half’s) in 2022. They just can’t maintain one and establish some sort of identity with it and stick with it.

I think changing up an offense scheme each week to outwit an opponent is far more overrated than when defenses do it.

Everyone knows KC will feed TK and they do. Each week. No matter who they play.

If they had or were able to establish that identity then backups would show better given they sat in it for 3 years.

[Bing Ghuls]

(11-29-2023, 04:49 PM)TheFan Wrote:  Why should the offensive play callers not receive blame for what they aren't able to do without a top 2 QB in the league? 

You would have a point if our back up QB was decent, but what coach in this league is going to make the playoffs with Browning or Finley at QB?  It is not like when we lose the #2 QB in the league we replace him with the #15 or #20 QB.

If coaches could just win with "scheme" then then teams would not pay QBs so much money.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-30-2023, 10:35 AM)Bing Ghuls Wrote: You would have a point if our back up QB was decent, but what coach in this league is going to make the playoffs with Browning or Finley at QB?  It is not like when we lose the #2 QB in the league we replace him with the #15 or #20 QB.

If coaches could just win with "scheme" then then teams would not pay QBs so much money.

Ya know, I was thinking last night....when has Reid ever worked with a bad QB? Favre, McNabb, Smith, and Mahommes. I don't see one bum on the list. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/analyzing-cincinnati-bengals-scheme-identity-how-to-improve-it-moving-forward

[Garrus]

(11-30-2023, 10:56 AM)Wyche Wrote: Ya know, I was thinking last night....when has Reid ever worked with a bad QB? Favre, McNabb, Smith, and Mahommes. I don't see one bum on the list. 

Makes you wonder if it is just dumb luck, or maybe he has an eye for QB talent. Guess it depends how involved he was in scouting leading up to the draft. Well except Favre at least.

[KillerGoose]

(11-30-2023, 10:56 AM)Wyche Wrote: Ya know, I was thinking last night....when has Reid ever worked with a bad QB? Favre, McNabb, Smith, and Mahommes. I don't see one bum on the list. 

He's had some bad ones for short stints. Koy Detmer, Vince Young, Mike McMahon, Nick Foles played poorly under him. Chad Henne wasn't that good, either. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-30-2023, 11:39 AM)Garrus Wrote: Makes you wonder if it is just dumb luck, or maybe he has an eye for QB talent. Guess it depends how involved he was in scouting leading up to the draft. Well except Favre at least.

I've read he was involved in getting McNabb in Philly. I think he was also who wanted Alex Smith. Based on that, probably Mahommes too. There's no doubt the man has an eye for QB talent and is a very good coach. It's just that we put him on a pedestal, but he's been the beneficiary of good QB play. We trash other coaches who don't produce with lackluster QB play, including our own. 

(11-30-2023, 11:44 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: He's had some bad ones for short stints. Koy Detmer, Vince Young, Mike McMahon, Nick Foles played poorly under him. Chad Henne wasn't that good, either. 

Right, and got ran out of Philly when things went south. My memory isn't what it was, but wasn't McNabb injured a bit during his last days? Point is, even great offensive minds struggle with bad QB play. Even those guys were better than what Browning put out there Sunday. Hopefully he is able to correct his mistakes moving forward.

[TheFan]

(11-30-2023, 10:35 AM)Bing Ghuls Wrote: You would have a point if our back up QB was decent, but what coach in this league is going to make the playoffs with Browning or Finley at QB?  It is not like when we lose the #2 QB in the league we replace him with the #15 or #20 QB.

If coaches could just win with "scheme" then then teams would not pay QBs so much money.

I don't think most coaches would make the playoffs with either of them. That's different than consistently coaching one of the worst offenses in the league without your star QB being healthy. Even when Burrow isn't at 100% they have shown they don't know how to scheme successfully to help him out. Our back up QBs sucking and Taylor being a below average play caller aren't mutually exclusive. 

It can also be argued Taylor is a big reason why we drafted Finley and have Browning in the first place. So I'm not going to excuse him for having crappy players in a position I'm sure he gets a lot of say in. There's no way they move up to draft Finely without that being someone Taylor wanted. 

Arguably Daltons worst year also came as his only year under Taylor. 2nd Worst completion percentage (rookie year was 1% worse), lowest TD%, almost more picks than TDs, worst record ever as a starter. Taylor was awful in Miami calling plays. Taylor was awful at UC calling plays. He's just not a good OC and that's okay. Not everyone is good at everything. I think he's a great HC and don't think the Bengals should get rid of him but he needs to do some self-reflection on what may be some components holding the offense back. If he did that evaluation honestly I think he'd see a lot of it point back to him and Brain Callahan. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-30-2023, 11:54 AM)TheFan Wrote: I don't think most coaches would make the playoffs with either of them. That's different than consistently coaching one of the worst offenses in the league without your star QB being healthy. Even when Burrow isn't at 100% they have shown they don't know how to scheme successfully to help him out. Our back up QBs sucking and Taylor being a below average play caller aren't mutually exclusive. 

It can also be argued Taylor is a big reason why we drafted Finley and have Browning in the first place. So I'm not going to excuse him for having crappy players in a position I'm sure he gets a lot of say in. There's no way they move up to draft Finely without that being someone Taylor wanted. 

Arguably Daltons worst year also came as his only year under Taylor. 2nd Worst completion percentage (rookie year was 1% worse), lowest TD%, almost more picks than TDs, worst record ever as a starter. Taylor was awful in Miami calling plays. Taylor was awful at UC calling plays. He's just not a good OC and that's okay. Not everyone is good at everything. I think he's a great HC and don't think the Bengals should get rid of him but he needs to do some self-reflection on what may be some components holding the offense back. If he did that evaluation honestly I think he'd see a lot of it point back to him and Brain Callahan. 

That is covered nicely in the article I linked. 

That said, it isn't one of the worst offenses in the league when Joe is playing. That's because it is catered to him and what he wants. The article does a great job of explaining that as well.