The OL Thread

[PCB Bengal Fan]

(09-27-2023, 12:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wouldn't completely agree with that, they forced plenty of rushed/errant throws, as Burrow was only 26/49 on the night.  Hardly a completion percentage that we're used to seeing out him.

How many drops? Higgins himself had how many?

[KillerGoose]

(09-27-2023, 12:47 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: How many drops? Higgins himself had how many?

There were four drops total. Accounting for the drops, throwaways, and batted passes, Burrow had a 68% adjusted completion percentage for week three. This was good for 24th out of 33 eligible QBs. 

[SunsetBengal]

(09-27-2023, 12:47 PM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: How many drops? Higgins himself had how many?

Yeah, it's definitely a multitude of factors, that particular one I started an entire thread about.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-27-2023, 12:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Everyone looking for a singular place to assign blame, when the reality of the situation is that he was sacked twice and pressured 11 times.  The Bengal OL was definitely partially to blame for his poor completion percentage, otherwise they wouldn't have been graded poorly as a unit in pass protection on the night.

2 sacks and 11 pressures on 51 drop backs against Aaron Donald with a QB who can't really move. With context, that doesn't seem bad to me.

Tbh, I don't think those numbers would be bad if Joe was still running around back there.

I look at PFF numbers, but only as part of the equation. Right now, reality isn't really jiving with the PFF numbers, imo.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-27-2023, 12:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2 sacks and 11 pressures on 51 drop backs against Aaron Donald with a QB who can't really move. With context, that doesn't seem bad to me.

Tbh, I don't think those numbers would be bad if Joe was still running around back there.

I look at PFF numbers, but only as part of the equation. Right now, reality isn't really jiving with the PFF numbers, imo.

The Bengals are throwing really short and really quick. So it's really hard to know what we have in the line.

But, yes...on the surface they look good.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-27-2023, 12:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2 sacks and 11 pressures on 51 drop backs against Aaron Donald with a QB who can't really move. With context, that doesn't seem bad to me.

Tbh, I don't think those numbers would be bad if Joe was still running around back there.

I look at PFF numbers, but only as part of the equation. Right now, reality isn't really jiving with the PFF numbers, imo.

The bigger point that I was touching on is that there is no "singular reason" for 26/49 and 4 drives ending in FGs that could or should have been TD drives.  Joe's mobility issue is a factor, the OL allowing pressure on 20% of drop backs is a factor, whatever is going on with Tee Higgins is definitely a factor, and let's not forget that the Rams secondary isn't too awful either, so yet another factor.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-27-2023, 12:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Bengals are throwing really short and really quick. So it's really hard to know what we have in the line.

But, yes...on the surface they look good.

For the most part, yes, due to Joe's injury. That said, we still took some shots, and he had time when needed for the most part.

51 drop backs should provide some opportunities at the QB.

Ultimately, if this were a court of law, I don't think we have enough evidence to convict. Yall may be right in the long run, but I don't think this game provided enough evidence.

Also keep in mind that the line improved as the season wore on last year, after a horrible start. I don't think any of you would classify this as a horrible start.

We also shortened Joe's throws last year, as evidenced by his yards per completion and 2.4 time to throw average. That didn't stop him from getting pummeled early on.

Joe is even lower on his time to throw this year (2.1), which will help keep pressure off of him, but that will increase as he gets healthy and can move around more.

I'm rambling here, but the gist of what I'm saying is that there's just way too many variables going on that interfere with our ability to just sit back and judge the o-line. Also, I don't think what we have seen has been bad enough to make a call yet.

[Shake n Blake]

(09-27-2023, 01:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The bigger point that I was touching on is that there is no "singular reason" for 26/49 and 4 drives ending in FGs that could or should have been TD drives.  Joe's mobility issue is a factor, the OL allowing pressure on 20% of drop backs is a factor, whatever is going on with Tee Higgins is definitely a factor, and let's not forget that the Rams secondary isn't too awful either, so yet another factor.

I agree that it's a combination of factors, with Joe's injury being far and away #1, Tee being #2 and I'd place lack of a reliable TE at #3, because that would help tremendously with how our WR's are covered and Joe's injury taking away longer throws.

I'd place the o-line and play calling in the "up for debate" or "need more evidence" categories for now. I'm not totally dismissing them, I just think the other issues are bigger and make it hard to judge the blocking and play calling fairly.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-27-2023, 01:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For the most part, yes, due to Joe's injury. That said, we still took some shots, and he had time when needed for the most part.

51 drop backs should provide some opportunities at the QB.

Ultimately, if this were a court of law, I don't think we have enough evidence to convict. Yall may be right in the long run, but I don't think this game provided enough evidence.

Also keep in mind that the line improved as the season wore on last year, after a horrible start. I don't think any of you would classify this as a horrible start.

We also shortened Joe's throws last year, as evidenced by his yards per completion and 2.4 time to throw average. That didn't stop him from getting pummeled early on.

Joe is even lower on his time to throw this year (2.1), which will help keep pressure off of him, but that will increase as he gets healthy and can move around more.

I'm rambling here, but the gist of what I'm saying is that there's just way too many variables going on that interfere with our ability to just sit back and judge the o-line. Also, I don't think what we have seen has been bad enough to make a call yet.

After three weeks, Joe was sacked 15 times in 2022.

After three weeks this year with a bum leg and the bad overall team performance in Cleveland....5 sacks.

[jj22]

I haven't read through the thread so maybe it was mentioned but one great thing about the Oline even as bad as they've been under Zac is the lack of presnap penalties.

That was something they struggled with against the Rams. Something they've been relatively good at.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-27-2023, 01:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The bigger point that I was touching on is that there is no "singular reason" for 26/49 and 4 drives ending in FGs that could or should have been TD drives.  Joe's mobility issue is a factor, the OL allowing pressure on 20% of drop backs is a factor, whatever is going on with Tee Higgins is definitely a factor, and let's not forget that the Rams secondary isn't too awful either, so yet another factor.

We had a bunch of penalties when we got in scoring range too. False starts. Some by WR's iirc too.

Like we self destructed.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-27-2023, 01:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For the most part, yes, due to Joe's injury. That said, we still took some shots, and he had time when needed for the most part.

51 drop backs should provide some opportunities at the QB.

Ultimately, if this were a court of law, I don't think we have enough evidence to convict. Yall may be right in the long run, but I don't think this game provided enough evidence.

Also keep in mind that the line improved as the season wore on last year, after a horrible start. I don't think any of you would classify this as a horrible start.

We also shortened Joe's throws last year, as evidenced by his yards per completion and 2.4 time to throw average. That didn't stop him from getting pummeled early on.

Joe is even lower on his time to throw this year (2.1), which will help keep pressure off of him, but that will increase as he gets healthy and can move around more.

I'm rambling here, but the gist of what I'm saying is that there's just way too many variables going on that interfere with our ability to just sit back and judge the o-line. Also, I don't think what we have seen has been bad enough to make a call yet.

I agree. And I think another part of the equation is that Donald is a 1st ballot HOFer...but the rest of the Rams defensive line...isn't that great. It's certainly nowhere near it's level during the SB.

And their offense has Stafford who is good, and a promising rookie WR...but they're a shell of their former selves as a team. They traded draft picks for players and paid guys heavily...and it won them a SB, but they paid the price. And we're seeing that.

They're a bottom 10-12 team in the NFL.

[bengals1969]

(09-26-2023, 10:29 AM)Joelist Wrote: Except that we're 4th in the league in fewest pressures allowed. And 8th in fewest sacks allowed. 5 sacks in 3 games is not a terrifying number. And this with an immobile QB who just stands there and isn't even dropping back normally. So as usual PFF synthetic stats with no context tell no story.

My eye test for Monday showed me the OL was effective in blunting a Rams DL looking to take Joe out of the game knowing he's the walking wounded.  They guy isn't mobile and was nearly a pure pocket passer, a perfect target for Donald and his mates.  

They did nothing to disrupt Burrow or his passing game.  Burrow missed a lot but many were due to him, not Donald and his mates.  Chase had a big game.  Tee dropped many catchable passes that could have run up the score.  

OL did fine.

[bengals1969]

(09-27-2023, 12:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wouldn't completely agree with that, they forced plenty of rushed/errant throws, as Burrow was only 26/49 on the night.  Hardly a completion percentage that we're used to seeing out him.

Not all the Oline's fault.  Burrow missed a lot of throws when he had time.  Tee dropped a few balls too.  
Good D lines will get pressures, hits an a sack or two.  That's all they got, unlike what the Bengal D line did to Stafford, they beat him, chased him, and sacked him 6 times taking them out of touch down possibilities.  Big difference.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-26-2023, 04:59 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Passing on Creed for Jackson Carman hurts my soul.

I thought that was the whole reason they traded back too... was a major let down at the time. Even more so after both of their rookie years ended.

[Luvnit2]

(09-27-2023, 02:24 PM)Wyche Wrote: After three weeks, Joe was sacked 15 times in 2022.

After three weeks this year with a bum leg and the bad overall team performance in Cleveland....5 sacks.

Great post, numbers say our OL has improved since 2022.
But, But, But......Volson sucks

Who have we played, Great DE in Garrett and Smith is a very good pass rusher, Ravens - great coverage team and thus they get great pressure and Rams with future HOF and best DT in football Donald

We have 5 sacks with a QB who can barely move and I don't think has any rushing attempts (take off to avoid pressure). Our issue is our great QB is trying to play through injury, everything is impacted including roll outs, shorter routes and Joe's accuracy due to his injury + lack of practice.

I am encouraged by the pass blocking of the OL, not so much the run blocking. But again, teams can put more guys in the box knowing Joe needs to get the ball out quickly. Joe is something like 1 for 8 on passes longer than 20 yards, thus teams we play can play in a way to stop the run game and the short passing game.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-27-2023, 02:24 PM)Wyche Wrote: After three weeks, Joe was sacked 15 times in 2022.

After three weeks this year with a bum leg and the bad overall team performance in Cleveland....5 sacks.

Good stuff Wyche. What is nice is they should get better as the season goes on and Burrow will be harder to sack as his health
gets better. This is a nice trend, just need to see Volson get much better as right now he is definitely the weak link on the OL.

[Nepa]

(09-27-2023, 01:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I agree that it's a combination of factors, with Joe's injury being far and away #1, Tee being #2 and I'd place lack of a reliable TE at #3, because that would help tremendously with how our WR's are covered and Joe's injury taking away longer throws.

I'd place the o-line and play calling in the "up for debate" or "need more evidence" categories for now. I'm not totally dismissing them, I just think the other issues are bigger and make it hard to judge the blocking and play calling fairly.

Yes, if there was ever a year in which the Bengals needed a reliable TE, this is the year. 

[Whacked]

Sound familiar? Lol
Other teams have similar OL woes

Titans write up …

“Even while adding the context of how many good pass rushers the Titans have faced through three games, Andre Dillard had a rough day against the Browns’ Myles Garrett, being overwhelmed in pass protection a few times and also being flagged on back-to-back third-down plays in the second quarter. He wasn’t the only Tennessee offensive lineman to struggle at Cleveland, but it’s concerning that left tackle remains an issue -- and that coordinator Tim Kelly hasn’t done more to help Dillard. Perhaps the Titans could try rookie Peter Skoronski there once he’s healthy, but Mike Vrabel stuck with 15-game starter Dennis Daley last season amid similar struggles. Tennessee might have to figure out how to make it work with Dillard.”


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[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-27-2023, 03:39 PM)Whacked Wrote: Sound familiar? Lol
Other teams have similar OL woes

Titans write up …

“Even while adding the context of how many good pass rushers the Titans have faced through three games, Andre Dillard had a rough day against the Browns’ Myles Garrett, being overwhelmed in pass protection a few times and also being flagged on back-to-back third-down plays in the second quarter. He wasn’t the only Tennessee offensive lineman to struggle at Cleveland, but it’s concerning that left tackle remains an issue -- and that coordinator Tim Kelly hasn’t done more to help Dillard. Perhaps the Titans could try rookie Peter Skoronski there once he’s healthy, but Mike Vrabel stuck with 15-game starter Dennis Daley last season amid similar struggles. Tennessee might have to figure out how to make it work with Dillard.”


.

Could be another mismatch in Trey Hendrickson's favor...