Time to move on from Frank Pollack

[HarleyDog]

(10-09-2023, 01:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And it would be exponentially more trash without him. A RB room of Chase Brown, Treyveon Williams, and Chris Evans would basically be completely writing off the running game.

At least Mixon will have a couple games a season where he goes off (think Carolina in the regular season and Buffalo in the playoffs last year).

But does going off 2 times last year trump the 5 games with under 30yds? I'm not trying to argue and I get what your saying, I really do. I just don't think he's got it anymore. Blind squirrel/nut thing.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-09-2023, 01:53 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: But does going off 2 times last year trump the 5 games with under 30yds? I'm not trying to argue and I get what your saying, I really do. I just don't think he's got it anymore. Blind squirrel/nut thing.

The point is he’s the best we have by far. You don’t subtract from an already weak position group.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-09-2023, 01:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Is it a blown assignment if it was never assigned in the first place?  

I realize you were kidding, but that really could be a possibility.  I'm just hoping that the bye week is a working vacation for the team, as they really need the fundamentals time.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Anyway…

Good to see Cappa looking more like himself.

Alex Cappa vs the Cardinals:

◻️ 51 pass blocking snaps
? 0 sacks allowed
◻️ 0 pressures allowed pic.twitter.com/LU9w1oIdnu

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) October 9, 2023

[SunsetBengal]

(10-09-2023, 01:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Anyway…

Good to see Cappa looking more like himself.

Alex Cappa vs the Cardinals:

◻️ 51 pass blocking snaps
? 0 sacks allowed
◻️ 0 pressures allowed pic.twitter.com/LU9w1oIdnu

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) October 9, 2023

And STILL able to piss off the entire State of Tennessee..

[HarleyDog]

(10-09-2023, 01:56 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The point is he’s the best we have by far. You don’t subtract from an already weak position group.

And probably not something of urgency to Zac in the upcoming draft. We have to fix this line first. I think getting rid of Pollack would be the best step in the right direction.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-09-2023, 10:06 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well I’m not a line guy but it appears to me Pollack is a hat on hat guy. Seems like we need some SF type scheme.

They changed the scheme to hat on hat last year and actually improved.

My question to you is, who dictates the scheme? The HC who brought his scheme with him, the OC allegedly coordinating the offense, or the Oline coach dictating the blocking scheme to the OC and HC?

[Frank Booth]

(10-09-2023, 01:58 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: And STILL able to piss off the entire State of Tennessee..

You’re confusing kappa with karras

[Sled21]

(10-09-2023, 01:58 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: And STILL able to piss off the entire State of Tennessee..

That was Karras

[Sled21]

(10-09-2023, 01:59 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: And probably not something of urgency to Zac in the upcoming draft. We have to fix this line first. I think getting rid of Pollack would be the best step in the right direction.

I'm not against getting rid of anyone if we can upgrade. But I'll ask the same question I always ask when someone says we need to get rid of someone. Who are you going to replace him with that is better. It's easy to say "get rid of this guy." Do we have someone on staff who would do a better job, or is there someone better who does not already have a job? It's the details..... You want to fire Pollack fine, who do you suggest replacing him with?

[SunsetBengal]

(10-09-2023, 02:26 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: You’re confusing kappa with karras

(10-10-2023, 11:48 AM)Sled21 Wrote: That was Karras

In that case, Cappa needs to up his game.  Can't have the Center being hated and not the RG as well.

[HarleyDog]

(10-10-2023, 11:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm not against getting rid of anyone if we can upgrade. But I'll ask the same question I always ask when someone says we need to get rid of someone. Who are you going to replace him with that is better. It's easy to say "get rid of this guy." Do we have someone on staff who would do a better job, or is there someone better who does not already have a job? It's the details..... You want to fire Pollack fine, who do you suggest replacing him with?

Maybe Whitworth if he's up for it?

[SunsetBengal]

(10-10-2023, 12:02 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Maybe Whitworth if he's up for it?

Whitworth would definitely be the fan favorite, sentimental choice, but he has no coaching resume.  I would think that they would target someone with a proven record of developing effective rushing attacks in a pass dominated offense.

[Joelist]

Firing a coach is not going to address much of anything unless they already have the proper replacement identified.

Note that of the three sacks yesterday two were the back releasing off protection prematurely. Also note that Burrow dropped back 46 times. 3 sacks and 11 total pressures in 46 drop backs is pretty good.

Basically the two biggest places to improve are ones that also involve Callahan and Zac not just the line coach:

- ALL the backs in the RB room need to learn pass protection including learning WHEN to release and go out to receive.

- The run plays need to be redone, junking ALL the wide zone concepts. This is a line of big Power Gap linemen, so design the plays to use that attribute. Also add a Jumbo package to the playbook and use Sample in the backfield more - heck he probably would be a good lead blocker in some concepts. In other words, we have a power line so let them play power.

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2023, 12:49 PM)Joelist Wrote: Firing a coach is not going to address much of anything unless they already have the proper replacement identified.

Note that of the three sacks yesterday two were the back releasing off protection prematurely. Also note that Burrow dropped back 46 times. 3 sacks and 11 total pressures in 46 drop backs is pretty good.

Basically the two biggest places to improve are ones that also involve Callahan and Zac not just the line coach:

- ALL the backs in the RB room need to learn pass protection including learning WHEN to release and go out to receive.

- The run plays need to be redone, junking ALL the wide zone concepts. This is a line of big Power Gap linemen, so design the plays to use that attribute. Also add a Jumbo package to the playbook and use Sample in the backfield more - heck he probably would be a good lead blocker in some concepts. In other words, we have a power line so let them play power.

You do realize who our Run Game coordinator is don't you?

[Joelist]

(10-10-2023, 12:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You do realize who our Run Game coordinator is don't you?

And do you REALLY think that title means anything? Mixon has had years to learn pass protection. Perine if you recall used to stink at it but did the work and became good at pass protection. 

Also I don't think the schizophrenic nature of our run schemes is solely Pollack. THAT is very much also Callahan and Zac (Sean McVay wide zone disciple). If we really want to be efficient at running with a power line we need to embrace the power and design the scheme around it. 

[SunsetBengal]

(10-10-2023, 12:49 PM)Joelist Wrote: Firing a coach is not going to address much of anything unless they already have the proper replacement identified.

Note that of the three sacks yesterday two were the back releasing off protection prematurely. Also note that Burrow dropped back 46 times. 3 sacks and 11 total pressures in 46 drop backs is pretty good.

Basically the two biggest places to improve are ones that also involve Callahan and Zac not just the line coach:

- ALL the backs in the RB room need to learn pass protection including learning WHEN to release and go out to receive.

- The run plays need to be redone, junking ALL the wide zone concepts. This is a line of big Power Gap linemen, so design the plays to use that attribute. Also add a Jumbo package to the playbook and use Sample in the backfield more - heck he probably would be a good lead blocker in some concepts. In other words, we have a power line so let them play power.

Is being pressured 24% a good rate?  What is the NFL average?

[*ochocincos*]

(10-10-2023, 01:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is being pressured 24% a good rate?  What is the NFL average?

When it comes to the division, here are the number of total pressures and sacks allowed:
CLE - 63 total pressures, 15 sacks
CIN - 57 total pressures, 11 sacks
BAL - 59 total pressures, 15 sacks
PIT - 77 total pressures, 14 sacks

Adding in some of the big hitter teams in the AFC outside of the division:
KC - 70 total pressures, 4 sacks
BUF - 60 total pressures, 9 sacks
MIA - 40 total pressures, 6 sacks
JAX - 66 total pressures, 13 sacks
LAC - 52 total pressures, 9 sacks

Most teams seem to be in the 10-15 range in sacks allowed, 50-70 pressures allowed.

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2023, 01:00 PM)Joelist Wrote: And do you REALLY think that title means anything? Mixon has had years to learn pass protection. Perine if you recall used to stink at it but did the work and became good at pass protection. 

Also I don't think the schizophrenic nature of our run schemes is solely Pollack. THAT is very much also Callahan and Zac (Sean McVay wide zone disciple). If we really want to be efficient at running with a power line we need to embrace the power and design the scheme around it. 

Sounds like a job for the run game coordinator. 

I just found your response an unusual approach the White Knight Pollack. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-09-2023, 08:39 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: As we watched what should have been a completely dominating win that should have been put away in the first half not get sealed until much later in the game, largely in part of the OL's inability to pick up stunts and blitzes or gain consistent movement in the running game.  We can single out individual players for their particular issues, but the one constant that has been there and supposed to be teaching communication and have that group working together as a unit is OL coach Frank Pollack.

Those 3 first half sacks, all on 3rd downs were drive killers, drives that likely could have ended in scores putting the game out of reach before the half.  Down inside the 5, not being able to move a defensive front that was beaten up pretty good by the 49ers just the week before off of the ball is simply unacceptable.  

As fans it's frustrating to watch, all we can do is come on here and grumble about it.  So with that in mind, if the Bengals elect to make a change at the OL coaching position, who would you like to see them target for the job?

I get the "move on..." but at some point i have to ask myself; why can't an experienced Oline guy keep his head up and notice when someone is looping around. Especially after it happens a couple times? Especially especially when it happens on 3rd down a couple times. You gotta know it's coming. It's like they drop their head and lock in on a particular guy. That's simply not a good offensive lineman. 

I can see it happening to Volson over and over. He's just not good but i thought Karras was better than that.