Anyone worried about the lack of the vertical passing game?

[sandwedge]

(10-15-2023, 09:22 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: No concern now.  We are back to .500, couldn’t care less how we got here.  Bye week at a perfect time honestly.

This! We are not forcing the ball downfield.

[Bengalbug]

(10-15-2023, 11:43 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont buy the excuse defenses are forcing Burrow to dink and dunk every game because they are playing cover 2. If thats the case why doesnt it effect other teams like Miami? Is our QB and WRs as good if not better than Miami's?

Different teams, different philosophy.. however I tend to agree w you.

Mostly coaching

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-15-2023, 11:43 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont buy the excuse defenses are forcing Burrow to dink and dunk every game because they are playing cover 2. If thats the case why doesnt it effect other teams like Miami? Is our QB and WRs as good if not better than Miami's?

Defenses actually have to respect Miami’s running game for one.

[J24]

(10-15-2023, 11:43 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont buy the excuse defenses are forcing Burrow to dink and dunk every game because they are playing cover 2.  If thats the case why doesnt it effect other teams like Miami?  Is our QB and WRs as good if not better than Miami's?

Miami came into today (8/15/23) as the best rushing team I the NFL. They average over 6 YPC.

[Bengalholic]

(10-15-2023, 11:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Defenses actually have to respect Miami’s running game for one.

McDaniel is a masterful at developing run schemes...our staff, not so much. It feels like the run game is an afterthought much of the time.

I'm a huge fan of Zac the HC. Not so much as a play caller or scheme designer. His offenses have always been inconsistent, even at their best...prone to completely disappearing for stretches of games. There just hasn't been any real evolution of this offense. IMO, they lack creativity and are a little too stubborn at times. 

I would love to see them bring someone in next year that is capable of developing an effective and adaptable run game. I know Zac likes to say they're a throwing team...but it would be nice to be able to take some pressure off Joe and put it on defenses. 

[*Go Cards*]

(10-16-2023, 12:17 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: McDaniel is a masterful at developing run schemes...our staff, not so much. It feels like the run game is an afterthought much of the time.

I'm a huge fan of Zac the HC. Not so much as a play caller or scheme designer. His offenses have always been inconsistent, even at their best...prone to completely disappearing for stretches of games. There just hasn't been any real evolution of this offense. IMO, they lack creativity and are a little too stubborn at times. 

I would love to see them bring someone in next year that is capable of developing an effective and adaptable run game. I know Zac likes to say they're a throwing team...but it would be nice to be able to take some pressure off Joe and put it on defenses. 

This ^^^^^^^

Have always said that I'm more proud of winning ugly than dominating. Most everybody can win when things are going right, but when theyre not you have to overcome and find a way with with shear determination. That being said it would be nice to see the dominant Bengals more often this season and not always winning ugly.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-16-2023, 12:17 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: McDaniel is a masterful at developing run schemes...our staff, not so much. It feels like the run game is an afterthought much of the time.

I'm a huge fan of Zac the HC. Not so much as a play caller or scheme designer. His offenses have always been inconsistent, even at their best...prone to completely disappearing for stretches of games. There just hasn't been any real evolution of this offense. IMO, they lack creativity and are a little too stubborn at times. 

I would love to see them bring someone in next year that is capable of developing an effective and adaptable run game. I know Zac likes to say they're a throwing team...but it would be nice to be able to take some pressure off Joe and put it on defenses. 

Yesterday was less about schemes, pressure and  running game and more  about accuracy and improvising. Smith was way more pressured and sacked and Runnning game with Walker avg just over 3 yards but Smith was more accurate on vertical game and mobile to buy time on throws.

[Essex Johnson]

(10-15-2023, 11:43 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont buy the excuse defenses are forcing Burrow to dink and dunk every game because they are playing cover 2.  If thats the case why doesnt it effect other teams like Miami?  Is our QB and WRs as good if not better than Miami's?

Miami right now has the best game changer at WR in football IN HILL and Waddle is a proven 2nd WR. Burrow is better than Tua but Tua has closed the gap with his play past 2 years.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-16-2023, 12:17 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: McDaniel is a masterful at developing run schemes...our staff, not so much. It feels like the run game is an afterthought much of the time.

I'm a huge fan of Zac the HC. Not so much as a play caller or scheme designer. His offenses have always been inconsistent, even at their best...prone to completely disappearing for stretches of games. There just hasn't been any real evolution of this offense. IMO, they lack creativity and are a little too stubborn at times. 

I would love to see them bring someone in next year that is capable of developing an effective and adaptable run game. I know Zac likes to say they're a throwing team...but it would be nice to be able to take some pressure off Joe and put it on defenses. 

Yup

At times it seems like there's 3 different offenses out there for us and they never see each other and one has no idea what the others are doing? 

We can't stay this ineffective running the ball down the stretch or it's gonna be very tough. We have to start using the middle of the field some in the passing game. We have to stretch the field a lot more consistently.

I know it's the same old drum that's been banged a gazillion time but we're way to predictable. 

[chrisball96]

(10-16-2023, 12:17 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: McDaniel is a masterful at developing run schemes...our staff, not so much. It feels like the run game is an afterthought much of the time.

I'm a huge fan of Zac the HC. Not so much as a play caller or scheme designer. His offenses have always been inconsistent, even at their best...prone to completely disappearing for stretches of games. There just hasn't been any real evolution of this offense. IMO, they lack creativity and are a little too stubborn at times. 

I would love to see them bring someone in next year that is capable of developing an effective and adaptable run game. I know Zac likes to say they're a throwing team...but it would be nice to be able to take some pressure off Joe and put it on defenses. 

I think to a certain extent we are getting by on sheer talent alone, and have been for some time. The results have been great but you kind of get the feeling that those successes have been made much more difficult by the limitations of ZT as a play caller. Sometimes teams like Miami and KC make it look effortless out there and we seem to have a lot more difficulty putting it all together on a consistent basis. It’s not all on ZT though since it’s also a combination of an underachieving line and sub par running game.

[Brownshoe]

Taylor and Callahan are trash at offensive schemes and play calling. I was high on Pollack a few years ago, but he can't get anything going on the OL that actually has decent talent now and nothing in the run game. It all comes down to coaching. I'm confident that we can win a SB with these players, but not confident we can with these coaches. We need to at least get rid of the OC and OL coach.

[higgy100]

(10-15-2023, 08:14 PM)Synric Wrote: Want more vertical routes? Then get defenses out of cover 2 by opening up the ground game.

Bingo. Until they can actually get a RB to average close to league average it will be difficult to throw downfield. Average OL for the most part with Mixon averaging 3.5 ypc versus the NFL average of 4.2. 

Now, with a healthier Burrow it would help with a few QB sneaks, QB taking off etc., as it did last year, but until either one of these things happen (or both) watch out for more of the same.

What i would like to see more of are 2 step drops and quick-hitters to the WR's and let them become our RB's. One juke or a missed tackle and that play can go for 20 yards.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-15-2023, 11:53 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Defenses actually have to respect Miami’s running game for one.

Right? Achane goes off for over 200 yards rushing against Denver, and Mostert is no slouch. It's like people don't even watch highlights of other teams, lol.

[KillerGoose]

(10-15-2023, 11:43 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I dont buy the excuse defenses are forcing Burrow to dink and dunk every game because they are playing cover 2.  If thats the case why doesnt it effect other teams like Miami?  Is our QB and WRs as good if not better than Miami's?

Because Miami is dominating the ground game. The conventional way to get a team out of cover two is to run the ball which forces them to bring a safety down and play middle field closed. Cincinnati can't do that, but Miami can. Miami is averaging 6.5 yards per carry. To put that into perspective, Miami's yards per carry is better than eight teams yards per pass attempt. 


TL;DR - Teams can't play cover two against Miami because they torch them on the ground. 

[Essex Johnson]

(10-16-2023, 11:00 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Because Miami is dominating the ground game. The conventional way to get a team out of cover two is to run the ball which forces them to bring a safety down and play middle field closed. Cincinnati can't do that, but Miami can. Miami is averaging 6.5 yards per carry. To put that into perspective, Miami's yards per carry is better than eight teams yards per pass attempt. 


TL;DR - Teams can't play cover two against Miami because they torch them on the ground. 

Actually watched the Bills play Cover two against them and they drilled them this year... but lets be honest a easy early schedule...4 of their wins have been against Giants, Patriots, Panthers and Broncos.. those 4 teams have a combined total of 3 wins together... they won a close one opening season with Chargers...