Goodberry did analysis of the defense - not pretty

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-15-2023, 07:59 AM)No-huddle Joe Wrote: I might get some disagreement here, but I think this is where we miss Vonn Bell the most.  I feel like he was kind of the "leader" of the secondary and did a great job of making sure the things discussed above didn't happen as often.  It just seems like guys are way more open in the Bengals secondary this year than last.  Maybe its just my eyes and statistics don't support it, but what I see on TV tells me differently.

I agree. But I think it's down being physical we miss Bell the most. Must have been a little bit of a rift between Bell and the Bengals. Or atleast I hope it was because Bell had to be a top priority. Nick Scott is just not the answer and it feels like he's 10-1 with bad plays to good play.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-15-2023, 11:45 AM)Joelist Wrote: As to Nick Scott, what Goodberry showed was Scott actually disrupted the secondary coverage schemes not just failing to cover on his part. I actually think had Tycen Anderson not been injured Scott would be on the bench right now. As it is I would rather have Battle's growing pains than Scott just screwing up because Battle IS growing.

I don't like Nick Scott. But Anderson just got injured and was not playing any defense as far as I know.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-15-2023, 10:59 AM)Housh Wrote: My only quick 3 day fix is to stop rotating safeties to make shit simple


I don’t want Scott worrying about complex coverages

Let him play cover 1, 2, 3, 4 and etc and keep it simple

Obviously disguise coverages and all that but the more complicated shit where he has to think about what to do needs to stop.


I’d rather go back to cover 2 more than cover 3 as well.

Bates allowed us to run cover 3 a lot because he was damn near a football genius and Scott isn’t even 1/2 of that.
Cover 2 would also play into CTB, Awuzie and Turners strengths of playmaking as all 3 are good at disguising coverages.







Losing both safeties will be the one thing we all look at if we look up in 3 weeks and we’re out the race

This made me think. Watching the breakdowns they seem to like mixing the three guys at free safety. Scott, Hilton and Dax. I love Hilton but he doesn't really seem to be that good in the free safety role. None of the guys seem to make any real big impact plays at that position. So maybe they should simplify it and just put Nick Scott back there. Let him concentrate on one area and let Dax and Hilton be the guys coming up we are asking to make big plays tackling and in coverage.

[007BengalsFan]

(11-15-2023, 12:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I wanted to keep Bell, but also at some point Lou just needs some more scrutiny.

2 paid DEs, 2 paid DTs, 2 paid LBs, 1-2 paid CBs, and they've used their first 3 draft picks in BOTH of the last two drafts on defense. Not top-5 paid guys, but still paid. At some point with all those guys getting contracts and all those high draft picks, you need to ask what's going on that we don't have better results right now.

If he needs paid guys at every position on the defense and the bulk of your draft in order to be good, is he actually that good?

As I mentioned in another thread, we have one Pro Bowl guy on this defense, Hendrickson.  Thats it.  Some try to claim CTB is a Pro Bowl caliber player.   While Cam is a good young CB with potential, he still makes a lot of mistakes, gets burnt and gives up big plays as Goodberry pointed out.  

You cant let guys like Bates and Bell walk and think it wont hurt what Lou can do with the defense.  Lou just doesnt have the talent other teams have.  While Hendrickson is great as our lone pass rusher, he is bad in run support.  Hubbard while good against the run is a mediocre pass rusher.  Reader while a great run stuffer is not a pass rusher.  Hill is not great at anything.  He is an average pass rusher and run defender.  Pratt makes some good plays in the turnover department but he will also let a guy run 10-15 yards downfield trying to strip him instead of making the tackle.  Nick Scott is horrible.  Dax Hill is young and is OK but nothing great at this point in his career.  He is certainly not close to Jessie Bates level.  Lou has some guys that do some things well but overall this isnt a defense loaded with talent.  

[Bengal Dude]

(11-15-2023, 11:56 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Blame the front office. Wonder if they "value" the position now?

They went bargain shopping with Nick Scott, let a quality player in Bell walk, and left 12 million in cap room on the table. No one to blame but themselves.

Lou said it himself - "I don't want to think of what this defense looks like if we lose both Bell and Bates." Lou told you before the season even started.

I'm hoping this is a wake up call to Duke. I know in the Marvin 2.0 era, Marvin and his guys had some say in the free agents that we went after. However, the way Zac has talked about the free agent process since he's been here, it sounds like Duke and his crew kind of lead the charge and don't take as much input from the coaches. 

[Bengalstripes9]

Losing bell hurt. I didn’t think it would happen. We are seeing the repercussions of losing both safeties.

I like battle. He’s got a ways to go but I think he’s going to be a solid player. I like Dax as well. I think the two of them will be a solid tandem.

The secondary is young. I think they’ll be much better next year.

If we lose Reader we better have a way of replacing him with a proven FA or a very high draft pick. I don’t see either happening so I’m hoping they can manage a 3 year deal.

[Housh]

(11-15-2023, 11:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: This made me think. Watching the breakdowns they seem to like mixing the three guys at free safety. Scott, Hilton and Dax. I love Hilton but he doesn't really seem to be that good in the free safety role. None of the guys seem to make any real big impact plays at that position. So maybe they should simplify it and just put Nick Scott back there. Let him concentrate on one area and let Dax and Hilton be the guys coming up we are asking to make big plays tackling and in coverage.

I LOVE this for Dax and Hilton. Essentially we wouldn’t have to have our nickel corner follow anyone across formations .


Nick Scott would be the weak link here

[reuben.ahmed]

did we need goodberry to tell us how bad it is lol, 30 yard, 25 yard wide open passes, 15 yard chunk run why not

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-16-2023, 09:49 AM)Housh Wrote: I LOVE this for Dax and Hilton. Essentially we wouldn’t have to have our nickel corner follow anyone across formations .


Nick Scott would be the weak link here

Yeah I would hope that we could just limit his impact overall. But I'm afraid of him being the last line of defense needing to make a tackle. I also just looked and we signed him to a 3 year contract. Do you think we will have to deal with his play for three years? 

[KillerGoose]

(11-15-2023, 11:46 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: This made me think. Watching the breakdowns they seem to like mixing the three guys at free safety. Scott, Hilton and Dax. I love Hilton but he doesn't really seem to be that good in the free safety role. None of the guys seem to make any real big impact plays at that position. So maybe they should simplify it and just put Nick Scott back there. Let him concentrate on one area and let Dax and Hilton be the guys coming up we are asking to make big plays tackling and in coverage.

Hilton's snaps with a safety look are so rare that it has to be part of an exotic look they throw in once in a while. He is averaging two snaps a game as a safety with the vast majority of his snaps coming as nickel corner. I would argue that Hilton is already being used exactly as you described. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-15-2023, 10:22 AM)Nepa Wrote: I assume the defense will improve during the season. There are a lot of new starters integrated into the defense, notably the safeties and CBs. I wish there were more time before the Ravens game to get things straightened out. But the talent is there, and I expect Lou will have things going well the back half of the season. Need to get by the Ravens and then there will be extra days to tighten things up.

And, yes, as Lou prognosticated, losing both Vonn Bell and Jessie Bates resulted in a "dark night."

Agree with this, we all knew Bates was leaving, that is why we drafted Dax. Losing Vonn made it that much harder and the reason why 
we brought in Nick Scott and drafted Battle for the future. I think Lou will get the Corner situation in the zones fixed sooner than the 
Safety position beside Dax. These mistakes are fixable and our Corners besides Hilton are pretty young and Chido has been coming off
of injury. I would put Battle in there instead of Scott though honestly and let him learn.

Jordan Battle is actually very instinctual and is smart while being a good tackler. I cannot say this from what I have seen of Scott with
us sadly.

[*michaelsean*]

It's obvious they have good coaches who exploited weaknesses. Someone needs to fix those ASAP.

[Housh]

(11-16-2023, 11:35 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah I would hope that we could just limit his impact overall. But I'm afraid of him being the last line of defense needing to make a tackle. I also just looked and we signed him to a 3 year contract. Do you think we will have to deal with his play for three years? 

I see a cut coming if he doesn’t get better

[Bengal Dude]

(11-16-2023, 11:35 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah I would hope that we could just limit his impact overall. But I'm afraid of him being the last line of defense needing to make a tackle. I also just looked and we signed him to a 3 year contract. Do you think we will have to deal with his play for three years? 

Looks like he'd carry a $2 million dead cap hit if we cut him after this season. I'm definitely curious to see if the team admits their mistake with Scott.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/nick-scott-29291/