Thoughts and concerns

[Graphicguy]

Thinking about the inures last night. I don't like to belabor the past, but I do remember Marvin Lewis always stating "next man up" when talking about injuries. I appreciate the sentiment, but I always thought that was really impersonal. That the players were little more than moving chess pieces. Players notice that.

Zac seems to take more of a personal note in his effusive complements of his players, as well as acknowledging their worth to the team. It makes a difference in their play.

Way in left field, but I saw Wilcots' interview with Ben Rothlesberger last night on YouTube. Ben had a good take on Jake Browning. He said many back up QBs want to try to take the starter's job. He said Jake was a career back up. And, he prepared himself and supported Burrow as a back up. In the end, he became a better QB in his own right.

Ben also didn't have anything worthwhile to say about the Steelers' current status, other than he discussed the "Steeler Way" with a couple of players. But, overall that means the players in that locker room aren't buying into the "Steelers Way". That tells me there needs to be lots of changes. When the HC can't even give straight answers about who their starting QB is going to be, that is a scary prospect for any team.

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-19-2023, 12:45 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: Thinking about the inures last night.  I don't like to belabor the past, but I do remember Marvin Lewis always stating "next man up" when talking about injuries.  I appreciate the sentiment, but I always thought that was really impersonal.  That the players were little more than moving chess pieces.  Players notice that.

Zac seems to take more of a personal note in his effusive complements of his players, as well as acknowledging their worth to the team.  It makes a difference in their play.

Way in left field, but I saw Wilcots' interview with Ben Rothlesberger last night on YouTube.  Ben had a good take on Jake Browning.  He said many back up QBs want to try to take the starter's job.  He said Jake was a career back up.  And, he prepared himself and supported Burrow as a back up.  In the end, he became a better QB in his own right.

Ben also didn't have anything worthwhile to say about the Steelers' current status, other than he discussed the "Steeler Way" with a couple of players.  But, overall that means the players in that locker room aren't buying into the "Steelers Way".  That tells me there needs to be lots of changes.  When the HC can't even give straight answers about who their starting QB is going to be, that is a scary prospect for any team.

I have to disagree. The next man up mantra is just what is said around the league. Perhaps it's impossible to know which coach treats players better but we have several stories of the Taylor era staff not treating players with a personal touch and just another cog so to speak.

[Soonerpeace]

(12-19-2023, 02:24 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I have to disagree. The next man up mantra is just what is said around the league. Perhaps it's impossible to know which coach treats players better but we have several stories of the Taylor era staff not treating players with a personal touch and just another cog so to speak.

Initially because the vets didn’t buy in . Find me a quote to back that up if possible since he got the roster right.

[Soonerpeace]

(12-19-2023, 02:24 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I have to disagree. The next man up mantra is just what is said around the league. Perhaps it's impossible to know which coach treats players better but we have several stories of the Taylor era staff not treating players with a personal touch and just another cog so to speak.

Just this week so I’m gonna have to disagree
That goes back to our culture,” Germaine Pratt told All Bengals. “Zac (Taylor) started a culture here that is unbreakable. Everybody looks each other in the eyes and next man steps up, there’s no drop off, you’ve got to step up and make plays.”

https://www.cincyjungle.com/platform/amp/2020/5/5/21236798/zac-taylor-continues-to-reshape-bengals-culture-cincinnati-burrow-captain-leadership-culture

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/17/zac-taylor-joey-boese-change-bengals-culture/

Jeremy Rauch
@FOX19Jeremy
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Three things #Bengals staff keeps mentioning as big intangibles with almost every pick/new addition.

SMART
LEADER
CAPTAIN

Ted Karras
https://dai.ly/x8q5f2x


Very efficient information dispensed and there isn't a lot of faffing around," says center Ted Karras, one of his captains who has played more NFL games than anyone on offense. "I would put Zac as the best scheduler I've ever been around."

"My dad has taken a lot of notes from Zac. We've been very blessed with a lot of knowledge from great leaders in the NFL and Zac is right up there with the best of them," Karras says. "There is a new kind of wave of younger coaches that take care of guys. It only works if you bring in the right guys."

https://www.bengals.com/news/zac-taylor-culture-built-on-efficiency

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-19-2023, 03:12 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Initially because the vets didn’t buy in . Find me a quote to back that up if possible since he got the roster right.

Well yeah two of the guys I'm thinking of are Dalton and Dunlap. But Jonah is another who said the reason for his trade request was because he was never reached out. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-19-2023, 03:12 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Initially because the vets didn’t buy in . Find me a quote to back that up if possible since he got the roster right.

And heck wasn't it just last year we were voted by the players to be the worst team for players who had families or something like that?

[Soonerpeace]

(12-19-2023, 05:07 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well yeah two of the guys I'm thinking of are Dalton and Dunlap. But Jonah is another who said the reason for his trade request was because he was never reached out. 

Never saw Andy make any comments. Link? Dunlap? Yep he clashed with Lou.

[Soonerpeace]

(12-19-2023, 05:08 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: And heck wasn't it just last year we were voted by the players to be the worst team for players who had families or something like that?

There was some survey and talked about family amenities. Don’t know how much that’s on Zac. But as far as the culture even Zac’s most critical fans admit the culture he had a huge impact. So I’m surprised about your take.

[Sled21]

(12-19-2023, 05:08 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: And heck wasn't it just last year we were voted by the players to be the worst team for players who had families or something like that?

Because they didn't provide breast feeding rooms and free daycare. Freakin athletes can pay for their own daycare just like the rest of us working slobs. Oh, and the cafeteria wasn't open on days they don't practice so they had to buy food. That survey showed just how spoiled some of these players across the league are. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-19-2023, 05:21 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: There was some survey and talked about family amenities. Don’t know how much that’s on Zac. But as far as the culture even Zac’s most critical fans admit the culture he had a huge impact. So I’m surprised about your take.

The player poll just popped in my head. I was really just responding to graphic guy who said Zac has more of a personal touch with players and that's why players play harder for Zac than they did for Marvin. I was just pointing out that there has been a few stories of players not getting the personal touch from Zac. Not saying I don't like our culture or that I necessarily think Taylor has done a bad job in player relations. Just disagreeing that Zac has done better that Marvin and that has made a difference in players level of play. 


The Dalton thing was the fact that Zac benched Dalton on his birthday too late before the trade deadline for him to have an opportunity else where.

[Graphicguy]

None of us are in there, but I do believe lets the team leaders actually lead. Again, Zac points out the bedrocks of this team are some of the best (if not THE best) players he's been around. Heck, he just called Burrow THE BEST PLAYER he's ever seen. How pumped do you think that makes them.

Just the way he came back in defense of Logan Wilson during a press conference when he gave him all the praise he could muster when some Ravens people were saying Wilson was a dirty player.

Of course, the flip side, if Zac isn't calling your name at all, that's a pretty good sign you have to step up your game.

As mild mannered as he was when he got here, I was worried about Zac as a leader. I don't have any doubt about his leadership how. Players play for him. This is the tightest locker room of any team I've ever observed.

Again, not crushing Marvin Lewis, but it seemed he went along with the Chad Johnson "no one can cover me" posts with little more than a shrug, or snickered when Burfict was being fined over and over again. The Carson Palmer moping. He let the locker room run wild. I know he tried to change that with A.J. Green and Andy Dalton, but it was too little too late.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-18-2023, 03:10 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I don't intend this to be a negative thread. I just wanted to bring up a couple of things and I thought we could put positive or negative things we've noticed.

But a common criticism I have had of Zac is his situational football. I think trick plays and short yardage gimmick plays fall under that umbrella. Taylor deserves a ton of credit for the team rallying around Browning and has silenced many of the doubters myself included. But these last few games while great we still have bad situational football. I keep hoping we will improve in this regard but it doesn't seem to be happening. The trick plays against Jax were bad and they've been talked about. But again in this game we come up with another bad trick play that could've cost us the game. Maybe like all plays you can say if it works your a genius if it doesn't your dumb. But the trick play came at the end of a solid 1st drive in a time when most teams have scripted plays on a 3rd and 1 when the offense had been moving effectively. I mean the list goes on and on why that was not a good time to run a play like that. Another play I didn't like was the tush push. I felt not only were we running well but it was not a play we should be trying in a time when we absolutely need it. Luckily Mixon bailed us out. But I think that tends to happen with failed situational football if you win it doesn't matter and if you lose there were more reasons for the loss. It's just something I think we need to address in the future as so many games come down to a field goal.

I missed the 1st 3 qtrs live and have since rewatched the game and I do want to say that it was probably one of the most exciting 4th qtrs I've seen in what feels like a while. But I also feel like we didn't scheme this game as much for Browning as we did in the 2 other games. Again the coaches deserve a ton of credit but in this game I think it was the players that really bailed us out.

I do think we get a little too cute at times when our Offense is already clicking. Just do what is working needs to be our mindset the rest 
of the season, we need to win every game from here on out. Love the fight in this team have to say, we are never going to quit with Zac 
Taylor at HC in December. Have to give our coaches credit here, the team fights like no other and they make plays when we need it the 
most over and over again.

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-19-2023, 06:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I do think we get a little too cute at times when our Offense is already clicking. Just do what is working needs to be our mindset the rest 
of the season, we need to win every game from here on out. Love the fight in this team have to say, we are never going to quit with Zac 
Taylor at HC in December. Have to give our coaches credit here, the team fights like no other and they make plays when we need it the 
most over and over again.

Yeah I think we had the mindset of we may need to do trick plays to help out our backup QB and the offense overall. But it appears to be the opposite that Browning and the offense is doing fine and they 1 don't need a trick play to move the ball and 2 may not be able to over come a failed trick play. Agree that we need to adjust our thinking and just let the offense do its thing. I also agree that I love the fight of the team and give the coaches and players a ton of credit. As these last few games may be the most fun I've had watching this team thus year. Even if it is in part because it's so unexpected where with Burrow we had very high expectations. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-19-2023, 06:53 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah I think we had the mindset of we may need to do trick plays to help out our backup QB and the offense overall. But it appears to be the opposite that Browning and the offense is doing fine and they 1 don't need a trick play to move the ball and 2 may not be able to over come a failed trick play. Agree that we need to adjust our thinking and just let the offense do its thing. I also agree that I love the fight of the team and give the coaches and players a ton of credit. As these last few games may be the most fun I've had watching this team thus year. Even if it is in part because it's so unexpected where with Burrow we had very high expectations. 

Well said Nug, well said.

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-19-2023, 06:35 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: None of us are in there, but I do believe lets the team leaders actually lead.  Again, Zac points out the bedrocks of this team are some of the best (if not  THE best) players he's been around.  Heck, he just called Burrow THE BEST PLAYER he's ever seen.  How pumped do you think that makes them.

Just the way he came back in defense of Logan Wilson during a press conference when he gave him all the praise he could muster when some Ravens people were saying Wilson was a dirty player.

Of course, the flip side, if Zac isn't calling your name at all, that's a pretty good sign you have to step up your game.

As mild mannered as he was when he got here, I was worried about Zac as a leader.  I don't have any doubt about his leadership how.  Players play for him.  This is the tightest locker room of any team I've ever observed.

Again, not crushing Marvin Lewis, but it seemed he went along with the Chad Johnson "no one can cover me" posts with little more than a shrug, or snickered when Burfict was being fined over and over again.  The Carson Palmer moping. He let the locker room run wild.  I know he tried to change that with A.J. Green and Andy Dalton, but it was too little too late.

Not saying that I think Taylor has done a bad job. Just saying I disagree on the Marvin Lewis front. That seems more speculation than anything. Heck Palmer said Lewis was a heck of a coach his gripe was with ownership.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-19-2023, 05:07 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well yeah two of the guys I'm thinking of are Dalton and Dunlap. But Jonah is another who said the reason for his trade request was because he was never reached out. 

They did mess the whole Jonah thing up, and I believe I recall them admitting it. Andy getting benched on his birthday may have been tone deaf, but it was going to happen at some point anyway. Dunlap was just a malcontent with Lou.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-19-2023, 06:59 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Not saying that I think Taylor has done a bad job. Just saying I disagree on the Marvin Lewis front. That seems more speculation than anything. Heck Palmer said Lewis was a heck of a coach his gripe was with ownership.

The only gripe I really had with Marvin was that his teams were always too tight in pressure situations. Then of course, it got stale. A beat writer said the difference in the locker room before big games and the playoffs was night and day. He said you could feel the tension when Marvin was here, but guys are playing ping pong, dancing, and cutting up leading up to the big time games now. I wish I could remember who it was that wrote about it. 

[Soonerpeace]

(12-19-2023, 06:59 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Not saying that I think Taylor has done a bad job. Just saying I disagree on the Marvin Lewis front. That seems more speculation than anything. Heck Palmer said Lewis was a heck of a coach his gripe was with ownership.

I wasn’t around with Marvin but he was here a long time and obviously well respected. I’ve never heard him not being a players coach. And my comments were from your comments that several players he didn’t get along with. But the culture of confidence and winning and work ethic needed a huge overhaul. Huge. Taylor delivered that. It’s crystal clear

[NUGDUKWE]

(12-19-2023, 08:45 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I wasn’t around with Marvin but he was here a long time and obviously well respected. I’ve never heard him not being a players coach. And my comments were from your comments that several players he didn’t get along with.  But the culture of confidence and winning and work ethic needed a huge overhaul. Huge. Taylor delivered that. It’s crystal clear

I don't know that I agree with the Huge statement so much. But it was time for Lewis to go for both sides. Taylor has delivered what we could've hoped for. But he also got what Marvin never did with several active free agencies.

[NUGDUKWE]

How good was Jake Browning? Areas of concern, what he does well and who he reminds me of

Bengals On The Brain presented by @Firststarloghttps://t.co/uHTvBePOnG pic.twitter.com/RVsN1PwBZG

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 20, 2023

I really enjoy Goodberrys Bengalsonthebrain breakdowns and as this episode gave me a whole other list of concerns I figured I would post it.
I knew we went back to alot of shotgun snaps in this game and it felt like we didn't do near the scheming for Browning. It does appear we went back to the Burrow offense atleast as far as what we were asking Browning to do as we did in Pittsburgh. The positive is he did improve from that one and we obviously got the win. But he missed a ton including 2 first half hand up I'm so open touchdowns to Chase one the play before the trick play I originally mentioned on the 1st drive. Seems to really struggle reading the safeties as he did before especially with any post snap shift. The optimist in me is they didn't want to lean to heavy on what they had been doing so teams adjust. The pessimistic side of me says we are going back to our offense and are not trying to improve for the future.