2024 Draft seems rich with quality OT's and WR's

[Luvnit2]

It appears the 2024 draft has some great OT and WR prospects. I can see us going either way with 1st pick. On other hand, we may need to sign free agent vets at DT (replace Reader), CB if we don't sign Awuzie.

I think we can draft a OT to start week 1 to replace Jonah.

On defense, we have a lot of needs or we need guys like Murphy to step up a lot in 2024. The young CB Turner and young safety Hill also need to be a lot better in 2024, I hope we sign a vet proven safety in 2024, I am concerned with both Turner and Hill.

[SunsetBengal]

The draft appears to be rich with OTs just about every year, but more often than not, a good number of projected plug and play Ts fail to live up to the hype. I don't think that this due to the players themselves as much as the offensive game in college just isn't getting Ts ready to handle NFL pass rushers.

[*Synric*]

(12-27-2023, 11:57 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The draft appears to be rich with OTs just about every year, but more often than not, a good number of projected plug and play Ts fail to live up to the hype.  I don't think that this due to the players themselves as much as the offensive game in college just isn't getting Ts ready to handle NFL pass rushers.

Not the 2023 draft lol. but yea you are right 1st round picks outside of the top 10 are about a 50% hit rate.


This year the OT like JC Latham and Amarius Mims are kinda scary prospects to me. Latham looks nearly identical the former Alabama Tackle Evan Neal and Mims has played in like 8 total college games.

[Whatever]

(12-27-2023, 11:57 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The draft appears to be rich with OTs just about every year, but more often than not, a good number of projected plug and play Ts fail to live up to the hype.  I don't think that this due to the players themselves as much as the offensive game in college just isn't getting Ts ready to handle NFL pass rushers.

Another big issue is OT evaluations get massively skewed because it's a premium position and there's a lack of quality starters in the league.  That causes T's to get artificially pushed up draft boards and ranked in areas where you would think you're getting a plug and play starter, but aren't.  

[Bengalfan4life27c]

We need to replace Jonah he has been the weak link on the line most of the season. Cam Heyward became Jonah's daddy on Sat night. Glad this the last year of Jonah he is barely better than ole turn style Bobby Hart

[Jpoore]

Not a fan of the ots after the top 3 personally.

[Whatever]

(12-27-2023, 12:14 PM)Synric Wrote: Not the 2023 draft lol. but yea you are right 1st round picks outside of the top 10 are about a 50% hit rate.


This year the OT like JC Latham and Amarius Mims are kinda scary prospects to me. Latham looks nearly identical the former Alabama Tackle Evan Neal and Mims has played in like 8 total college games.

The thing that's enticing about this year's T class is that there are several top prospects that are just athletic freaks.  For years, pass rushers were just so athletic that T's were just overmatched.  Take a guy like Jonah Williams and how his margin for error is practically nil when he faces top pass rushers.  A lot of kids at the top of this T look to have the potential to finally swing that pendulum the other way.  

They're going to have growing pains they need to work through, but a good number of the top of this crop seem to have the athletic tools to at least survive while they learn the nuances of the position.  We're kind of seeing that play out with Broderick Jones this year.  His technique is terrible, but he's been serviceable as a rookie because he can win just by being too much of a physical freak for the other guy.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-27-2023, 01:39 PM)Whatever Wrote: Another big issue is OT evaluations get massively skewed because it's a premium position and there's a lack of quality starters in the league.  That causes T's to get artificially pushed up draft boards and ranked in areas where you would think you're getting a plug and play starter, but aren't.  

There's a lack of quality starters in the league because CFB has been growing a poor crop of them for the past 15-20 years.  It's a vicious cycle that won't end until teams get past using measurables and traits as such heavily weighed factors when evaluating talent.  Personally, I feel that when it comes to pass protectors, teams should be targeting players from schools that still employ offenses featuring more straight drop backs and less RPO based offenses. 

[*Synric*]

(12-27-2023, 02:11 PM)Whatever Wrote: The thing that's enticing about this year's T class is that there are several top prospects that are just athletic freaks.  For years, pass rushers were just so athletic that T's were just overmatched.  Take a guy like Jonah Williams and how his margin for error is practically nil when he faces top pass rushers.  A lot of kids at the top of this T look to have the potential to finally swing that pendulum the other way.  

Tyler Guyton matches that to a capital "T". His body control at that size is freakish if someone said he could make acrobatic catches from the TE position I wouldnt argue. Thing is like Anton Harrison last year Oklahoma doesn't really run an NFL offense so he will have to be developed and its going to be ugly early... and you just know the Bengals will get TJ Watt within the 3 games.

[Luvnit2]

(12-27-2023, 01:39 PM)Whatever Wrote: Another big issue is OT evaluations get massively skewed because it's a premium position and there's a lack of quality starters in the league.  That causes T's to get artificially pushed up draft boards and ranked in areas where you would think you're getting a plug and play starter, but aren't.  

I am not sure why OT's would be skewed, it is based on individual evaluations. No position is more important than franchise QB and this year I see 3 1st round grades.
Williams, Maye and Daniels. There are around 6 to 8 OT's with 1st round grades depending on website.

There are a lot of guys evaluated, CB's seem to be not as good in 2024 as they were in 2024.

[Whatever]

(12-27-2023, 02:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: There's a lack of quality starters in the league because CFB has been growing a poor crop of them for the past 15-20 years.  It's a vicious cycle that won't end until teams get past using measurables and traits as such heavily weighed factors when evaluating talent.  Personally, I feel that when it comes to pass protectors, teams should be targeting players from schools that still employ offenses featuring more straight drop backs and less RPO based offenses. 

If the issue was teams overvaluing traits and athletic profiles, then we'd be seeing more and more  mid-late round picks blooming into quality starters.  That hasn't been the pattern with OT's.  

Look at Jonah Williams as an example.  Blue collar lunch pail type coming out of college with a great work ethic and technique.  He can hold his own against mediocre -bad edge rushers.  Whenever he goes up against Myles Garrett or TJ Watt, he gets clubbed like a baby seal.  He's just too outmatched from a physical standpoint.  

If you target kids from traditional drop back offenses, you really limit your talent pool and most of the top recruits don't go to those schools, anyways.  

[Whatever]

(12-27-2023, 02:47 PM)Synric Wrote: Tyler Guyton matches that to a capital "T". His body control at that size is freakish if someone said he could make acrobatic catches from the TE position I wouldnt argue. Thing is like Anton Harrison last year Oklahoma doesn't really run an NFL offense so he will have to be developed and its going to be ugly early... and you just know the Bengals will get TJ Watt within the 3 games.

Guyton is a kid I like a lot and Bill Bedenbaugh has churned out a lot of NFL starters during his time at Oklahoma.  He's currently my #5 OT for the Bengals.  But yeah, there will be growing pains.

But Alt is a freak.  Fuaga is a freak.  Mims, obviously, is a freak.  Suamataia is a freak.  Patrick Paul has a reported 7' wingspan.  

[SunsetBengal]

(12-27-2023, 03:43 PM)Whatever Wrote: If the issue was teams overvaluing traits and athletic profiles, then we'd be seeing more and more  mid-late round picks blooming into quality starters.  That hasn't been the pattern with OT's.  

Look at Jonah Williams as an example.  Blue collar lunch pail type coming out of college with a great work ethic and technique.  He can hold his own against mediocre -bad edge rushers.  Whenever he goes up against Myles Garrett or TJ Watt, he gets clubbed like a baby seal.  He's just too outmatched from a physical standpoint.  

If you target kids from traditional drop back offenses, you really limit your talent pool and most of the top recruits don't go to those schools, anyways.  

Jonah Williams is kind of an exception as his inadequacies versus elite level edge rushers was somewhat masked while he was in college, due to playing on some supremely loaded teams at Alabama.  Those Bama teams in that era dropped back and threw when they wanted to, not because they were forced to pass because the ground game was ineffective.

However, I can list you two prime examples of Tackles drafted based on traits and athletic profiles, right here with the Bengals.  Cedric Ogbuehi and Jake Fisher.

[Whatever]

(12-27-2023, 04:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Jonah Williams is kind of an exception as his inadequacies versus elite level edge rushers was somewhat masked while he was in college, due to playing on some supremely loaded teams at Alabama.  Those Bama teams in that era dropped back and threw when they wanted to, not because they were forced to pass because the ground game was ineffective.

However, I can list you two prime examples of Tackles drafted based on traits and athletic profiles, right here with the Bengals.  Cedric Ogbuehi and Jake Fisher.

Jonah's sacks allowed the past 3 years are right about Og's the years he was a starter.  

We've also drafted way more OL that didn't have great athletic profiles that failed in the drafts since the Og/Fisher draft.  

It's been pointed out earlier this year that our OL has the lowest Relative Athletic Score in the league and OL's with poor Relative Athletic Scores tend to be bad.  

[SunsetBengal]

(12-27-2023, 04:42 PM)Whatever Wrote: Jonah's sacks allowed the past 3 years are right about Og's the years he was a starter.  

We've also drafted way more OL that didn't have great athletic profiles that failed in the drafts since the Og/Fisher draft.  

It's been pointed out earlier this year that our OL has the lowest Relative Athletic Score in the league and OL's with poor Relative Athletic Scores tend to be bad.  

I limited my Bengal examples to Ts, as that is the position that the OP mentions. With Ogbuehi, he was also a false start and holding penalty machine.

I agree that RAS is definitely something to look at when evaluating players, as players on the very low end of the scale could mean trouble transitioning to the speed of NFL play.  I also feel that ultimately game footage and observing players play in their venue is the best method of determining if a player has the ability to do what your team is going to ask of him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-27-2023, 11:53 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It appears the 2024 draft has some great OT and WR prospects. I can see us going either way with 1st pick. On other hand, we may need to sign free agent vets at DT (replace Reader), CB if we don't sign Awuzie.

I think we can draft a OT to start week 1 to replace Jonah.

On defense, we have a lot of needs or we need guys like Murphy to step up a lot in 2024. The young CB Turner and young safety Hill also need to be a lot better in 2024, I hope we sign a vet proven safety in 2024, I am concerned with both Turner and Hill.

What Free Agent Nose Tackles are there? This is my question, I have been looking for NT's in this Draft and T'Vondre Sweat is the big guy I 
want as of now, but we might have a later round pick if we win these last 2 games and get into the Playoffs. Sweat is supposed to be a mid 
2nd rounder last I heard from Whatever. I want Fuaga if we go RT in the first round but he might go ahead of us.

Trading back and selecting Sweat might be the plan if Fuaga is gone. Bring in Eluemunor in FA for a vet presence at RT.

[Whatever]

(12-27-2023, 06:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: What Free Agent Nose Tackles are there? This is my question, I have been looking for NT's in this Draft and T'Vondre Sweat is the big guy I 
want as of now, but we might have a later round pick if we win these last 2 games and get into the Playoffs. Sweat is supposed to be a mid 
2nd rounder last I heard from Whatever. I want Fuaga if we go RT in the first round but he might go ahead of us.

Trading back and selecting Sweat might be the plan if Fuaga is gone. Bring in Eluemunor in FA for a vet presence at RT.

Aside from Reader and Tupou...

Grover Stewart, Colts
Christian Wilkins, Dolphins
Austin Johnson, Chargers
Michael Pierce, Ravens
Jonathan Hankins, Cowboys

These are guys that are among the starters that will be available, currently.  3 tech also looks extremely strong, with KC's Chris Jones and the Ravens Justin Madubuike at the top of that group.

[Whatever]

(12-27-2023, 04:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I limited my Bengal examples to Ts, as that is the position that the OP mentions. With Ogbuehi, he was also a false start and holding penalty machine.

I agree that RAS is definitely something to look at when evaluating players, as players on the very low end of the scale could mean trouble transitioning to the speed of NFL play.  I also feel that ultimately game footage and observing players play in their venue is the best method of determining if a player has the ability to do what your team is going to ask of him.

Og had 3 and 2 penalties the two years he started.  Maybe you're mixing him up with Bobby Hart?

You never just draft a kid Day 1 or 2 strictly based on an athletic profile, but making projections based on tape is harder and harder for OL.  Carman is another pick that didn't have a great athletic profile, but had some good tape, and hasn't panned out.  A lot of kids just don't face NFL caliber pass rushers, let alone a Garrett or Watt.  

[SunsetBengal]

(12-28-2023, 12:09 PM)Whatever Wrote: Og had 3 and 2 penalties the two years he started.  Maybe you're mixing him up with Bobby Hart?

You never just draft a kid Day 1 or 2 strictly based on an athletic profile, but making projections based on tape is harder and harder for OL.  Carman is another pick that didn't have a great athletic profile, but had some good tape, and hasn't panned out.  A lot of kids just don't face NFL caliber pass rushers, let alone a Garrett or Watt.  

Could be, that time period is one era of Bengals history that I'd rather forget.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-28-2023, 11:02 AM)Whatever Wrote: Aside from Reader and Tupou...

Grover Stewart, Colts
Christian Wilkins, Dolphins
Austin Johnson, Chargers
Michael Pierce, Ravens
Jonathan Hankins, Cowboys

These are guys that are among the starters that will be available, currently.  3 tech also looks extremely strong, with KC's Chris Jones and the Ravens Justin Madubuike at the top of that group.

Wow, thanks, would love to get Wilkins, Jones, Pierce, Madubuike or Hankins. That is a very strong FA for DT's.

Just when we desperately need a couple. We need to add a NT and a 3-tech to solidify our front. Loved Reader but we do not know how he 
will recover from that injury. Love BJ Hill but besides him the other DT's aren't getting the job done at all. Well maybe Tufele, he looks alright.