Reds Sign Montas

[The D.O.Z.]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article/reports-rhp-frankie-montas-to-sign-one-year-16m-deal-with-reds/

I like it. We don't give up vaunted prospects and if he sucks in the rotation, he can be moved to the pen or cut. If he's really good, he can test the market or chose to resign if we show well this year. The guy had REALLY good stuff pre shoulder scope, which I would imagine is fully healed or they wouldn't have signed him. I wanted this guy back in the Todd Frazier trade but he went to LA, I hope DJ can get him back to THAT level.

[TecmoBengals]

I guess they're adding more depth with this move. I hope he stays healthy.

[CJD]

This is an outstanding signing.

During the 2022 season, when the Reds traded Luis Castillo to the Mariners, the other major trade option for pitching needy teams was Frankie Montas.

The Yankees were reportedly close to striking a deal with the Reds for Castillo, but ultimately lost out to the Mariners because the Yankees were unwilling to trade their top prospect, Anthony Volpe, but the Mariners were willing to trade theirs, Noelvi Marte. The Yankees were only willing to part with Jasson Dominguez, their 3rd ranked prospect.

With Castillo off the market, the Yankees turned to the second best available pitcher, Frankie Montas, who was sporting a 3.18 ERA, in 104.2 innings and a WHIP of 1.137.

In his 6 year career to that point with Oakland As, he had a 3.70 ERA, 1.267 WHIP, 9.3 K/9 and 2.9 BB/9 in 89 starts and 537.2 innings.

He had a bad 9 games in New York, but he has said that he was injured shortly after being traded to the Yankees and played through it, and then had surgery that caused him to miss most of 2023.

The 1 game he appeared in during the 2023 season was late in the season, so it's a good sign that he'll be healthy and ready to go this coming year.

If he stays healthy, he's probably the best and most seasoned starting pitcher on the roster and while he isn't a "true ace" like Castillo was, he is about as solid of a "true #2" or "good enough #1" as you'll find on the market.

And it didn't cost us a single prospect. Just 16 million dollars of Bob's money.

I can't think of any downside to this signing. If he's good, offer him a qualifying offer which nets compensatory picks if he declines. If he's bad, you bench him and bring up Williamson, Phillips or Martinez to take his slot alongside Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft and Abbott.

For once in a long time, we actually have decent depth in the starting rotation. We just lack that top end talent. If Montas is healthy, he can be that top end. If he isn't, then maybe Greene, Lodolo or Ashcraft (or Abbott) take that next leap.

If neither occurs, Lowder is probably coming up next year as the next wave of exciting new pitching talent.

I think this pitching staff is in good shape after this signing.

[guyofthetiger]

Isn't it amazing what you can do after shedding the Votto and Moose contracts? Glad to see some money spent on pitching.

[*ochocincos*]

Looks like Montas is (likely) the final piece to the roster.

Reds added Candelario for an additional bat/position player, and they arguably only needed 1.
Check.

Reds added two guys to bolster the bullpen, neither of which needed to be a closer. Check.

The only thing they were missing was another rotation guy, and Montas is expected to be that.
Barring an injury, Greene, Ashcraft, and Abbott were all guaranteed to be big pieces of the rotation.
Williamson, Lodolo, and Phillips were going to compete for the final two spots, but I think we all wanted an upgrade to at least SP3/4 and realistically let these other guys all compete for SP5.

While Montas only pitched in one game in 2023, he had a pretty solid 2021 and part of 2022 with the Oakland A's.
If Montas can be in CIN what he was in OAK, it's a good 1-year rental.
If he's more like he has been with the Yankees, he's an overpriced guy who may also not stay healthy.

I get the likes of Sonny Gray are coming at $20+ mill a year, but man, $15-17 mill for Montas feels too high for the risk.

[*bengalfan74*]

If Montas can return to 2021 form (13-9 187 innings 3.37 ERA) he could be the piece that puts us in the mix. I like it

[The D.O.Z.]

With the news today of "no more major moves" this is it. I hate that they're crossing their fingers on this guy but if he can return to form, this "kicks the can down the road" and lets one or more of these young bucks to develop into that TOR arm for next year and beyond. Maybe they are in wait and see mode when it comes to our second year players to really see where we are at contention-wise before they decide to drop big bucks / top prospects for that ace. Maybe they weren't impressed by this year's crop of FA and didn't want to sign anyone longer than 1 year. I dunno.

But what I do know is this club is, on paper, better off than they were at this point last year. They have quality depth if nothing else. We didn't have that last year and the rookies bailed the FO out. The BP was a strength, one of the better ones in the NL and they just made it better w Martinez and Pagan. Resigned Farmer. It should be a strength once again this year.

If a trade that makes sense comes up for a TOR arm, cool. If not, we go with the guys we have and hope for the best.

[kevin]

Missed 2023 with shoulder surgery on his pitching arm. His best innings eating season was 2021 with Oakland A's.

The best news to me on this is that it is only a 1 year contract. Also come the trade deadline in July, teams needing pitching may trade for him. So he could be here to All Star break, and after that who knows. This is not a Joey Votto 10 year no trade contract.

The Reds have Greene, Lodolo, Ashcraft who miss as many games injured as they pitch, so now we add injured all 2023 Montas. Either Reds will be a MASH Unit of disabled pitchers again in 2024, or maybe the Reds pitchers stay healthy and have good seasons.

In February Reds start preparing for season. I hope in practice they work on basic defense, I'm not talking the ESPN highlight catches. I'm talking making the routine plays so that pitchers only have to get 3 outs, not 4 or 5 outs due to bad defense mistakes. Good solid team defense is as important as pitching and hitting.

[CTS]

Bought a broken down Ford Pinto. Major moves done. It's an idiotic move.

[The D.O.Z.]

(01-03-2024, 01:26 PM)CTS Wrote: Bought a broken down Ford Pinto. Major moves done. It's an idiotic move.

Lol. Montas was the #13 FA on the market this year regardless of missing 99.99% of 2023. His pitch selection should do him well here. He throws cutters, sinkers, good breaking stuff that either misses bats or induces ground balls. It's a smart move. If he flounders, they're out 16 million and they don't have to trot him out there like they did with Weaver last year. They can cut bait and let the second and third year guys step up. I see this as a "kick the can down the road" type move. Maybe they weren't impressed with this year's FA crop and didn't want to fork over $25+ million a year for a 5 year deal.

/shrug

If anyone really expected Montgomery, Snell, or THAT tier, I don't know what to tell ya. That's not the Reds M.O. Picking up the Scooter Gennetts and other cast offs has paid off in the past. I'm willing to give the guy a chance!

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I'm 100% out on any pitcher that gets throwing shoulder surgery, let alone shoulder injuries that start in one year they miss a ton of time with and then an entire next season. I would much rather he have gotten TJ than shoulder surgery. Guys come back from TJ a lot nowadays, shoulders end careers and this guy was hardly the healthiest of players even before this shoulder surgery.

[CJD]

(01-03-2024, 04:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm 100% out on any pitcher that gets throwing shoulder surgery, let alone shoulder injuries that start in one year they miss a ton of time with and then an entire next season. I would much rather he have gotten TJ than shoulder surgery. Guys come back from TJ a lot nowadays, shoulders end careers and this guy was hardly the healthiest of players even before this shoulder surgery.

Can you clarify what you mean here? Because Montas, as far as I know, played the majority of the 2022 season, with the exception of a couple weeks in July that he seems to have missed. He was traded to the Yankees and started for the rest of the season with them, starting every ~5 games from August 7th to September 16th. He looks like he missed 2 or 3 starts at the end of the season, and made 1 relief appearance in the playoffs for them. 

So he missed maybe 5 or 6 starts over the course of the 2022 season. I can't find much written about why, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was the shoulder injury at the end there. But I'd be hard pressed to call it a "ton of time" missed in 2022.

Then, obviously he missed most of 2023, but the one game he appeared in was at the end of the season, so that's a good sign that he was healthy enough to play at the end, meaning the rehab of the shoulder was already completed and he was in game shape. This season was likely a fairly normal off season for him, relatively speaking.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-03-2024, 05:36 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Can you clarify what you mean here? Because Montas, as far as I know, played the majority of the 2022 season, with the exception of a couple weeks in July that he seems to have missed. He was traded to the Yankees and started for the rest of the season with them, starting every ~5 games from August 7th to September 16th. He looks like he missed 2 or 3 starts at the end of the season, and made 1 relief appearance in the playoffs for them. 

So he missed maybe 5 or 6 starts over the course of the 2022 season. I can't find much written about why, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was the shoulder injury at the end there. But I'd be hard pressed to call it a "ton of time" missed in 2022.

Then, obviously he missed most of 2023, but the one game he appeared in was at the end of the season, so that's a good sign that he was healthy enough to play at the end, meaning the rehab of the shoulder was already completed and he was in game shape. This season was likely a fairly normal off season for him, relatively speaking.

You're absolutely right. Not a ton of time in 2022, I meant a ton of time overall. That's on me. Lol

Not a ton of time missed in 2022, but the time he missed was indeed shoulder related...
July '22: https://theathletic.com/4169648/2022/07/03/frankie-montas-mri-confirms-shoulder-inflammation-no-structural-damage/
Sept '22: https://nypost.com/2022/09/17/yankees-frankie-montas-to-get-mri-for-right-shoulder-discomfort/
Feb '23: https://www.amny.com/sports/yankees-frankie-montas-shoulder-surgery/

He also got suspended in 2019 for juicing while having his best year after greatly struggling early in his career.
https://apnews.com/as-pitcher-montas-suspended-80-games-for-drug-violation-7d69e2986efb4f948e5b919587d6abde

So a cheater with a long lasting shoulder injury and surgery.

[CJD]

(01-03-2024, 05:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're absolutely right. Not a ton of time in 2022, I meant a ton of time overall. That's on me. Lol

Not a ton of time missed in 2022, but the time he missed was indeed shoulder related...
July '22: https://theathletic.com/4169648/2022/07/03/frankie-montas-mri-confirms-shoulder-inflammation-no-structural-damage/
Sept '22: https://nypost.com/2022/09/17/yankees-frankie-montas-to-get-mri-for-right-shoulder-discomfort/
Feb '23: https://www.amny.com/sports/yankees-frankie-montas-shoulder-surgery/

He also got suspended in 2019 for juicing while having his best year after greatly struggling early in his career.
https://apnews.com/as-pitcher-montas-suspended-80-games-for-drug-violation-7d69e2986efb4f948e5b919587d6abde

So a cheater with a long lasting shoulder injury and surgery.

Oof, I didn't know about the juicing.

Well, he's a Red now, so let's hope he can perform up to his contract haha.

[grampahol]

(01-03-2024, 04:39 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm 100% out on any pitcher that gets throwing shoulder surgery, let alone shoulder injuries that start in one year they miss a ton of time with and then an entire next season. I would much rather he have gotten TJ than shoulder surgery. Guys come back from TJ a lot nowadays, shoulders end careers and this guy was hardly the healthiest of players even before this shoulder surgery.

I had a shoulder injury years back and because of it I developed a pretty good knuckle ball.. I'm not saying he'll find a killer knuckler, but it might be kind of nice. A great knuckler when everyone else is throwing 100 mph+ .. Hell yeah.. lol Most hitters wouldn't know what to do with it..