16th pick currently

[Whatever]

(01-03-2024, 08:24 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Some of you blow my mind.

We have Burrow, who could be the best quarterback in the league with Chase to throw to if we'd just give him time.

He took us to the Super Bowl and AFCC game with no line and we were one block away from winning the Super Bowl.

How you can even think of drafting anything other than one of the big tackles in the first round absolutely blows my mind.

Mims or Latham seem likely.

I get that we have other holes and needs, but protecting Burrow should be the top priority.

Burrow tore apart the league with no line, so give him protection and let the rest of the league try to keep up with us.

Personally, our first two picks should be OT-WR or WR-OT, depending on the board.

If Alt or Fashanu make it to us, I sprint to the podium and don't look back.  I was fairly high on Latham earlier, but someone posted the long list of bama OL draft busts that have come out the last several years and that's scared me off of him.  Mims is an athletic freak of the highest degree, but inexperience (only 7 college games) and injury history make him a very high risk prospect.  Fuaga would be a possibility in this spot, but there's a good chance that there is one or more better WR prospects available.  Honestly, there are 2nd round T's like Guyton, Paul, and Suamataia that I really like, too.

[Jpoore]

(01-04-2024, 11:26 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not drafting a DT in the 1st round who is going to just be a rotational player after their first year.
Whoever I am targeting in 1st round I will expect to be a starter in Year 2 if not sometime in their rookie year.

So yes, for me, Reader being retained for multiple years does matter if I am taking a NT in Rd 1.
Regardless, BJ Hill is entering his contract year, so I am ok taking a pass rushing DT in Rd 1 anyway with the intent that player will get the majority of 3T reps after Hill departs in 2025.

You have you’re “DT starters” but they generally play as many snaps as the backup dts or at least a 60/40 split. This keeps them all healthy.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-03-2024, 08:24 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Some of you blow my mind.

We have Burrow, who could be the best quarterback in the league with Chase to throw to if we'd just give him time.

He took us to the Super Bowl and AFCC game with no line and we were one block away from winning the Super Bowl.

How you can even think of drafting anything other than one of the big tackles in the first round absolutely blows my mind.

Mims or Latham seem likely.

I get that we have other holes and needs, but protecting Burrow should be the top priority.

Burrow tore apart the league with no line, so give him protection and let the rest of the league try to keep up with us.

It simple you have 22 starters, you can;t just ignore other areas, Burrow is a top QB yes, but the run to SB was more defense than offense.. and we have invested in Oline, we just have done a bad job with draft picks and I feel Pollack has hurt us .. we have to stay balance with our draft and FA.. Burrow is not going to get us back to the SB with just a better line if we have a terrible defense

[*ochocincos*]

(01-04-2024, 06:33 PM)Jpoore Wrote: You have you’re “DT starters” but they generally play as many snaps as the backup dts or at least a 60/40 split. This keeps them all healthy.

BJ Hill played 72% of the defensive snaps this year.
70-80% is what I would want a 1st round DT playing, no less.

[Jpoore]

(01-04-2024, 08:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: BJ Hill played 72% of the defensive snaps this year.
70-80% is what I would want a 1st round DT playing, no less.

And that’s how you end up with sub par production… 60% is what I would shoot for. Especially at NT. Dj reader played 40% in 2022.

[HarleyDog]

(01-01-2024, 06:51 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I expect at minimum a tag.

Guaranteed. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-04-2024, 08:34 PM)Jpoore Wrote: And that’s how you end up with sub par production… 60% is what I would shoot for. Especially at NT. Dj reader played 40% in 2022.

At NT sure, but you're not typically spending a 1st round pick on a NT, as it's extremely rare to have a true NT be worth a pick that high.
NTs are not typically 3-down players, just run stoppers that get swapped out for nickel DTs in pass rushing situations.

But for pass-rushing DTs, I disagree.

Look at these impactful pass-rushing DTs this year:
Buckner - 70-80% every year he's played other than his rookie year. 7.0 sacks this year at 72% snap count
Wilkins - 80% snap count this year, 8.0 sacks.
Chris Jones - Typically playing right around 70-80% snap count every year. 74% this year, 80% last year.
Aaron Donald - Typically 80% or higher snap count every year.

Sorry if I don't agree with only using a DT 60% of the time, but plenty of good pass-rushing DTs are able to be highly-productive at 70% or more usage. I do get what you're saying in terms of keeping fresh, but I want my best players out there most of the time.

[Whatever]

(01-04-2024, 08:07 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: It simple you have 22 starters, you can;t just ignore other areas, Burrow is a top QB yes, but the run to SB was more defense than offense.. and we have invested in Oline, we just have done a bad job with draft picks and I feel Pollack has hurt us .. we have to stay balance with our draft and FA.. Burrow is not going to get us back to the SB with just a better line if we have a terrible defense

In '21, we had the 7th ranked offense(13th scoring) and the 17th ranked D(18th scoring).  I don't see how that run was all about defense.  

[Essex Johnson]

(01-04-2024, 11:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: In '21, we had the 7th ranked offense(13th scoring) and the 17th ranked D(18th scoring).  I don't see how that run was all about defense.  

In playoffs the defense dominated 2nd half in 3 game leading to SB, without that effort we don't make it to SB, taking nothing away from our offense we played decent but defense play was essential,  we need to shore up the defense also in this draft.

[Whatever]

(01-05-2024, 01:03 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: In playoffs the defense dominated 2nd half in 3 game leading to SB, without that effort we don't make it to SB, taking nothing away from our offense we played decent but defense play was essential,  we need to shore up the defense also in this draft.

In the Raiders game, the D gave up 2 4th quarter FG's and the Raiders were in scoring position again at the end, but needed a TD.  The Raiders also had 385 yards of offense.

Titans game, I can give you based on the score, but they still had over 350 yards of offense and scored 10 in the 3rd quarter.  We dominated the 4th, I'll give you.

"The Switch" game in KC, they held them to 3 seconds half points.  However they got lit up for 21 in the first half and the offense's ability to score quickly was the only reason the D could concede an entire half to use that strategy.  

I've said it elsewhere and I will say it again here.  Our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks the last two drafts have all been on defense.  We have a ton of young talent early in the development curve on D already.  More young talent experiencing growing pains is not what we need to "fix" the defense.  We need some proven vets in FA. 

Even stranger to me is it seems a lot of folks(not you necessarily) want a DT in the 1st.  It's a strong FA class for both NT's and 3 techs.  DT's have a notoriously long learning curve.  DT's are usually cheaper than other positions we have needs at(T, WR).  Logic would seem to dictate you spend your money on the position group where you can get a better equivalent player for cheaper, especially considering the learning curve.  

[*Synric*]

Draft Season is on pause while everyone waits the next 10 days for the underclassmen declaration deadline.


Edit: All-Star Games are gonna be crazy this year. We are already seeing guys like Christian Mahogany, Beaux Limmer, and Javontae Jean-Baptise in the East West Shrine and Fabien Lovett in the Hulu Bowl.

[Jpoore]

(01-04-2024, 11:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: At NT sure, but you're not typically spending a 1st round pick on a NT, as it's extremely rare to have a true NT be worth a pick that high.
NTs are not typically 3-down players, just run stoppers that get swapped out for nickel DTs in pass rushing situations.

But for pass-rushing DTs, I disagree.

Look at these impactful pass-rushing DTs this year:
Buckner - 70-80% every year he's played other than his rookie year. 7.0 sacks this year at 72% snap count
Wilkins - 80% snap count this year, 8.0 sacks.
Chris Jones - Typically playing right around 70-80% snap count every year. 74% this year, 80% last year.
Aaron Donald - Typically 80% or higher snap count every year.

Sorry if I don't agree with only using a DT 60% of the time, but plenty of good pass-rushing DTs are able to be highly-productive at 70% or more usage. I do get what you're saying in terms of keeping fresh, but I want my best players out there most of the time.

60% is probably a little now, but 65% is what I would like to see. That’s about what 700 snaps?

(01-05-2024, 02:18 PM)Synric Wrote: Draft Season is on pause while everyone waits the next 10 days for the underclassmen declaration deadline.


Edit: All-Star Games are gonna be crazy this year. We are already seeing guys like Christian Mahogany, Beaux Limmer, and Javontae Jean-Baptise in the East West Shrine and Fabien Lovett in the Hulu Bowl.

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY MAHAGONG IS GOING SO LOW

[casear2727]

(01-01-2024, 12:45 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Could end up as high as 12th it low as 18th. As y’all know been a huge trade back and IDL person, gather top 100 picks this year. That said if we ended up at 12? Would be VERY hard to pass up on Newton, bowers, or one of the top 3 tackles if they fell. Trade back would still be my choice but JUST BARELY over Newton. Would you prefer  to stay where you are or trade back?

Looks like we are at 18th.

[Jpoore]

(01-07-2024, 06:30 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Looks like we are at 18th.

Yup. Good spot. Prime trade back spot if elite talent dosent fall.

[Clark W Griswold]

Hopefully a good T is there at 18.
Will be beneficial that they need a RT not a LT.

[*Go Cards*]

Somebody good could slide down to 18.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-05-2024, 12:24 PM)Whatever Wrote: In the Raiders game, the D gave up 2 4th quarter FG's and the Raiders were in scoring position again at the end, but needed a TD.  The Raiders also had 385 yards of offense.

Titans game, I can give you based on the score, but they still had over 350 yards of offense and scored 10 in the 3rd quarter.  We dominated the 4th, I'll give you.

"The Switch" game in KC, they held them to 3 seconds half points.  However they got lit up for 21 in the first half and the offense's ability to score quickly was the only reason the D could concede an entire half to use that strategy.  

I've said it elsewhere and I will say it again here.  Our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks the last two drafts have all been on defense.  We have a ton of young talent early in the development curve on D already.  More young talent experiencing growing pains is not what we need to "fix" the defense.  We need some proven vets in FA. 

Even stranger to me is it seems a lot of folks(not you necessarily) want a DT in the 1st.  It's a strong FA class for both NT's and 3 techs.  DT's have a notoriously long learning curve.  DT's are usually cheaper than other positions we have needs at(T, WR).  Logic would seem to dictate you spend your money on the position group where you can get a better equivalent player for cheaper, especially considering the learning curve.  

I big reason we have leaned Defense is how much we $$ in FA in Oline, the past two years we signed 4 starting Oline (Collins got cut after a season) and used 2nd round pick in so we had to lean defense in draft.. We might have both our starting DTs gone , totally see us leaning early on a DT in the draft, im nos sure how $$ we are going to be in FA this year with those contracts we have coming up.

Like i said defense shut down teams in 2nd half in 2021 in scoring, only gave up 2 tds over the three games in 2nd half, and just 3 FGS in 4th.. that was the difference getting to SB