For 2024: A New Identity on Offense?

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-01-2024, 12:58 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Then you need to get off his back. It’s not hard dude.

I feel like I try and be fair with Taylor. He does alot of really good things I like from a head coach perspective. But he also has alot of negatives on the playcalling front. We shouldn't let his positives erase the negatives. 

[Soonerpeace]

(01-01-2024, 02:13 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I feel like I try and be fair with Taylor. He does alot of really good things I like from a head coach perspective. But he also has alot of negatives on the playcalling front. We shouldn't let his positives erase the negatives. 

I can get behind that with a qualifier. You’d have to admit the poor run game eliminates a lot of options. Joe’s preferences and his tendency for going to the wide outs and ignoring the TE’s factors. Zac was the TE coach at TAMU. He threw to TE’s as an interim OC with the Dolphins. He loves TE’s. Joe is hurt surely you don’t think the reason the TE’s are getting more targets is Jake driven? I think they’ve tried to be accommodating to the likes of Joe and his preferences. I mean you have too to for your starting QB but one like Joe definitely. Nor will I erase Zac’s negatives. He does give up on the run game too easily. The trick play on third and 1 with Tanner Hudson ridiculous. Not realizing what they had in Jake and start him early a huge miss. The slow early season starts. But also 3-3 w/o Burrow puts a big crack in the mantra Burrow completely Carrie’s him.

[Housh]

Get a good back and a line and it’ll open the passing offense up even if Boyd and Tee leave

[The D.O.Z.]

I don't think JB9 focuses on WR more than TE. I think the play calling on the sidelines and up in the booth does though. JB9 will find you if you are open, no matter what position the receiving player is playing. We saw him hitting Uzo and Hurst no problem in years past, he used Sample and Hudson this year when needed. The targets are there to be had, but fielding 11 personnel most of the time, of course the WR are the primary targets and will get the lion's share of the catches. What's going to be interesting THIS off-season is if we lose Tee and Boyd. Does Zac revamp his offense to accommodate? Nothing from Jones leads me to believe he's Boyd's replacement in waiting and Iosivas showed some promise but can't be counted on to be WR2 quite yet. If Tee and Boyd walk, do we replace them with vet FAs? I don't see them drafting WR high, seeing as we double dipped last year and probably want to give THOSE guys every opportunity to play. Do we draft a TE and start using more 2TE sets with guys like Hudson and Sample? For a team struggling with running the football, I would think morphing the offense to use more 2TE sets and schemes would be a huge boon to this offense. How many times did Tee go out with a hamstring injury this year? Or dehydration? How many times has Boyd disappeared in games where we absolutely needed him? With those two either out or playing poorly, our offense went to crap.

I would really like to see them do what Buffalo did this year when they drafted Kincaid. Their offense became far less predictable and their running game took off. James Cook looks real good running behind that line and 2TEs.

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-01-2024, 02:38 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I can get behind that with a qualifier. You’d have to admit the poor run game eliminates a lot of options. Joe’s preferences and his tendency for going to the wide outs and ignoring the TE’s factors. Zac was the TE coach at TAMU. He threw to TE’s as an interim OC with the Dolphins. He loves TE’s. Joe is hurt surely you don’t think the reason the TE’s are getting more targets is Jake driven? I think they’ve tried to be accommodating to the likes of Joe and his preferences. I mean you have too to for your starting QB but one like Joe definitely. Nor will I erase Zac’s negatives. He does give up on the run game too easily. The trick play on third and 1 with Tanner Hudson ridiculous. Not realizing what they had in Jake and start him early a huge miss. The slow early season starts. But also 3-3 w/o Burrow puts a big crack in the mantra Burrow completely Carrie’s him.

I think the offensive staff is the bigger reason for our lack of TE use. We seem content with bringing in whatever bargain TE we can get because they're are higher needs. I personally agree with TE being a lower priority. But I think our lack of TE targets and the run game struggles boils down to us veiwing Chase and Higgins as our explosive keys to our offense. They get a bulk of the looks because they can change a game on any given target. I think the uptick in TE use is two parts protection for Jake as well as Jake looking for the easy completion at a higher rate than Burrow would. 

The coaching staff deserves credit for getting some wins with Browning. But maybe we all gave them a bit too much credit. You mentioned the trick play vs Minn but the two against Jax were terrible for so many reasons. We probably lose that game if Lawerence doesn't get hurt the 2nd said trick play being a big factor. Which no matter which way you shake it fall squarely on Taylor even before the fact that I think he designed them. Colts game was just a straight up beating we gave them. Not much negative I can say about that one but it also stands out as an outlier as we went under center almost 50% of the time. Then the Minnesota game and it seemed we really went back to the Burrow offense. Playing against almost any other QB besides Mullins and some remarkable plays by our own players we probably lose that game as well. Again not trying to be a negative Nancy as I was all on board after the Colts game and really was only starting to worry after the Vikings game. I'm just trying to look back with a truthful lense and see what we really accomplished. 

[WeezyBengal]

(01-01-2024, 11:54 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I highly doubt much is going to change. With Burrow, this team is likely always going to be the type of team to spread out defenses, sit in shotgun and throw it 60%-65% of the time. It also works, the offense was very productive. There isn’t much of a reason to change it. It was also productive with Browning this year.

This. 

Why would we change this offense? It's been pretty damn successful. 

We went 0-6 in the division because Burrow didn't play in 75% of those games or was completely immobile and not 100% in them. The only division game he was healthy for was the first half of the Baltimore game. 

People are trying to make this deeper than it needs to be - like we need to gut our team to match up better with the AFC North. 

Like no, we don't. We just need our best player to be healthy. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-01-2024, 07:15 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This. 

Why would we change this offense? It's been pretty damn successful. 

We went 0-6 in the division because Burrow didn't play in 75% of those games or was completely immobile and not 100% in them. The only division game he was healthy for was the first half of the Baltimore game. 

People are trying to make this deeper than it needs to be - like we need to gut our team to match up better with the AFC North. 

Like no, we don't. We just need our best player to be healthy. 

Not saying change it completely but our best player is working with a 50% success rate making it thru a season. Seems like we are already signing up for another slow start if our plan is to have Burrow throw 65% of the time to start the season. It's also not just about him the whole team seemed to pick up they're play when we eased it up on Browning.

[Joelist]

We need to get back to playing under center more, running more and running more power left. Too many runs are wide concepts. The current base concept of shotgun a lot passing 65% + of the time and trying to spread the defense is VERY OL unfriendly. OL want to run block and they want to do it downhill; so let them. Use Sample as a FB more and get a big, bruising back who doesn't go down easy to compliment Brown. Do more play action and if keeping Tee is not the plan then get Chuck Sizzle and Yoshi out there and actually target them. They inject a LOT of speed into the offense.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-01-2024, 12:42 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This doesn't necessitate a new identity, though. Part of the Bengals issue is that their running game has been piss poor for years now. They have a rather mediocre RB room and to Synric's credit, the OL isn't full of athletes that get off the ball to generate push. Getting some more dynamic guys in there can help the offense tremendously. Defenses feel comfortable sitting in two high against Cincinnati because what are they going to do? KC runs two high as their base coverage and the Bengals barely mustered 3 YPC against them. It forces the offense into a one dimensional mindset and then the pass rushers can tee off. 

The Bengals do poorly against the AFCN because they can't run the ball effectively and most of the defenses in this division have all-world pass rushers to go along with strong secondaries. That's more of a personnel change IMO. They have to keep trying to add talent in the RB room and OL. 

:joe:

[Soonerpeace]

(01-01-2024, 07:01 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I think the offensive staff is the bigger reason for our lack of TE use. We seem content with bringing in whatever bargain TE we can get because they're are higher needs. I personally agree with TE being a lower priority. But I think our lack of TE targets and the run game struggles boils down to us veiwing Chase and Higgins as our explosive keys to our offense. They get a bulk of the looks because they can change a game on any given target. I think the uptick in TE use is two parts protection for Jake as well as Jake looking for the easy completion at a higher rate than Burrow would. 

The coaching staff deserves credit for getting some wins with Browning. But maybe we all gave them a bit too much credit. You mentioned the trick play vs Minn but the two against Jax were terrible for so many reasons. We probably lose that game if Lawerence doesn't get hurt the 2nd said trick play being a big factor. Which no matter which way you shake it fall squarely on Taylor even before the fact that I think he designed them. Colts game was just a straight up beating we gave them. Not much negative I can say about that one but it also stands out as an outlier as we went under center almost 50% of the time. Then the Minnesota game and it seemed we really went back to the Burrow offense. Playing against almost any other QB besides Mullins and some remarkable plays by our own players we probably lose that game as well. Again not trying to be a negative Nancy as I was all on board after the Colts game and really was only starting to worry after the Vikings game. I'm just trying to look back with a truthful lense and see what we really accomplished. 

Trust me it’s Joe who wants to push the ball to his WR. He had Justin Jefferson and Chase at LSU it shaped him. Zac drafted Drew Sample in the second round.Jake has told them he likes the TE. So they are tailoring the game plan. Joe likes 4 wides. They likewise tailor it. The trick plays are all awful
but I’m not grading Zac on trick plays. I am the playoffs 5-2 and AFC titles 1-1 and SB 0-1. Minnesota gave Detroit a great game leading in the third quarter. Mullins was 22-36. KC is in the top 3 in the most important defensive categories. We played tough and you know those guys named Higgins and Chase? Neither one close to 100%. If you really are trying to look with a truthful lense the run game is a problem. The rush defense and big plays given up are the real issues. Not the offensive scheme. Romo raved about it.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-01-2024, 07:15 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This. 

Why would we change this offense? It's been pretty damn successful. 

We went 0-6 in the division because Burrow didn't play in 75% of those games or was completely immobile and not 100% in them. The only division game he was healthy for was the first half of the Baltimore game. 

People are trying to make this deeper than it needs to be - like we need to gut our team to match up better with the AFC North. 

Like no, we don't. We just need our best player to be healthy. 

No kidding

[WeezyBengal]

(01-01-2024, 07:32 PM)Joelist Wrote: We need to get back to playing under center more, running more and running more power left. Too many runs are wide concepts. The current base concept of shotgun a lot passing 65% + of the time and trying to spread the defense is VERY OL unfriendly. OL want to run block and they want to do it downhill; so let them. Use Sample as a FB more and get a big, bruising back who doesn't go down easy to compliment Brown. Do more play action and if keeping Tee is not the plan then get Chuck Sizzle and Yoshi out there and actually target them. They inject a LOT of speed into the offense.

This will never be a run, under center, big play action team with Burrow as QB1. 

It's not what he wants and it doesn't suite his best skillset. 

Incorporate it a bit more, that's fine...but it's not what he or the staff want. 

[Soonerpeace]

(01-01-2024, 08:27 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This will never be a run, under center, big play action team with Burrow as QB1. 

It's not what he wants and it doesn't suite his best skillset. 

Incorporate it a bit more, that's fine...but it's not what he or the staff want. 

Contrary to thought by some obviously but they put 31 points on SF. I guess they’d rather be Miami lol.

[The D.O.Z.]

I don't want or expect wholesale changes. Just tweak some things and mix it up a bit more. Get a new OLine coach. Draft or sign a better RB and pair them w/ Chase Brown. Simplify the defensive scheme for incoming rookies or sparingly used 2nd year starters so they don't look lost out there. Don't stick w/ a rookie punter who sucks, even if you used a draft pick on him. Simple, you-would-think-would-be-common-sense things.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-01-2024, 11:12 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes, I know my postseason Monday morning quarterbacking is starting a week early but this up and down season is still fresh in my mind.  Right now, at least as I see it, the Cincinnati Bengals need to develop a more recognizable offensive identity in the offseason.  Right now it looks like Zac Taylor and Brian Callahan are trying the strategy of “throw jello at the wall and see what sticks” with respect to play calling and play design.  

A strategic decision must be made before free agency opens and the Draft is upon us.  Moving forward in 2024 and beyond is going to take some serious strategic planning.  The first question should revolve around the offense:  Do the Bengals go Air Raid, Smashmouth, or something else? Air Raid worked nicely against the NFC West (4-0) but fared badly against the rest of the AFC North (0-6 or 1-5).  

(I’m well aware the terms “Air Raid” and “Smashmouth” mean different things to different people.  If anyone has better terminology please feel free to share.)

Unpredictability is where it is at. I know Zac doesn't think we can run against the AFC North but right there is where you fail.

You have to run the ball well and stop the run in order to win in this Division plain and simple. Under Center QB play is paramount.

Burrow is a great QB in the Shotgun, but that should only be used in situations where the team you are playing against is bad against 
Shotgun and they simply cannot stop it. The problem is all the teams in this Division know what we are going to do before we even suit up. 
Sometimes it doesn't even matter if Joe Burrow is healthy along with the entire team but you are putting yourself in a terrible position of 
having to be perfect.

Make it easier on yourself FFS.

BTW, I love this team's effort under Zac, they pushed those Chefs to the edge and fought hard.

Was a valiant effort after Burrow going down. Good job Jake Browning and the entire team.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-01-2024, 12:44 PM)Destro Wrote: Jacksonville, Colts and Vikings in OT. Not exactly a murders row. And this for a team that I hear over and over again about being in the AFC Championship Game the past two years. Zac and Brian did better than I expected, too, but the same bad O-line, lack of rushing, (unless a toss play), -2 yard out routes and no tackling never went away. None of the bad yesterday was new to the team. 

They are the Cincinnati Burrows. I love me some Joe Burrow, but when it is all about one guy, and everything else with the team is below par, this is what you get. 

FIFY and the Colts was a blowout.

[fisherscatfan]

(01-01-2024, 12:49 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Great then the fact that only Buffalo and KC over that 2 year span did better both years? Not Philly Not Miami in points per play efficiency should completely resonate.And., why Romo said  the offense was so fundamentally sound

Over that span, tell me what teams you would trade the offensive talent with? The Jimmys and Joes make up for a hell of a lot of Taylor’s deficiencies. There are generational talents on the offensive side of the ball and Taylor has benefited tremendously from that fact. There are a lot of coaches who could accomplish what Taylor “has” with this level of talent.

[Destro]

(01-01-2024, 08:56 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: FIFY and the Colts was a blowout.

Fixed nothing, as we saw the "how it started, how's it's going" meme that was reality. 

Cool. Beat Gardner Minshew. 

[Soonerpeace]

(01-01-2024, 09:06 PM)fisherscatfan Wrote: Over that span, tell me what teams you would trade the offensive talent with? The Jimmys and Joes make up for a hell of a lot of Taylor’s deficiencies. There are generational talents on the offensive side of the ball and Taylor has benefited tremendously from that fact. There are a lot of coaches who could accomplish what Taylor “has” with this level of talent.

It’s not that simple. Miami has great offensive talent they just got blown out by the Ravens. It’s about the roster. The Jimmys and the Joes are almost always the determining factor. It doesn’t do any good to have Chase,Joe, and Tee with one of the worst OL ( ratings). What has Zac failed to do? Win pkayoff games? He’s 5-2 with almost all on the road. He’s 1-1 in AFC title games both on the road. He lost to the Rams in the SB barely on a controversial PI and late score. You and others calling him out for this season plus going 3-3 w/o Burriw is criminal.The offense efficiency rating solid the last 2 years. #8 in points per play.

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-01-2024, 08:13 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Trust me it’s Joe who wants to push the ball to his WR. He had Justin Jefferson and Chase at LSU it shaped him. Zac drafted Drew Sample in the second round.Jake has told them he likes the TE. So they are tailoring the game plan. Joe likes 4 wides. They likewise tailor it. The trick plays are all  awful
but I’m not grading Zac on trick plays. I am the playoffs 5-2 and AFC titles 1-1 and SB 0-1. Minnesota gave Detroit a great game leading in the third quarter. Mullins was 22-36. KC is in the top 3 in the most important defensive categories. We played tough and you know those guys named Higgins and Chase? Neither one close to 100%. If you really are trying to look with a truthful lense the run game is a problem. The rush defense and big plays given up are the real issues. Not the offensive scheme. Romo raved about it.

We drafted sample in the 2nd rd should never be used to make a point unless that point is we are bad at drafting. If your grading Taylor on the playoff success then give that credit instead to Lou and whomever made our free agency decisions. Romo was just filling TV space. Is he supposed to tear us down while we are starting a backup QB?