To clarify....

[casear2727]

The old Tyler Boyd thread bump had NOTHING to do with calling out any poster. Which I didnt. I specifically said that I could have been wrong then and still be wrong today.

I remember the conversation vividly as it went 8 pages with many opinions shared. I hoped to see if anyone had changed their minds due to Boyd's diminished productivity the last 2 seasons.

My hope was to parlay that conversation into one regarding moving on from good players that have real value due to the impact that Burrow & Chase will have on the cap moving forward. The Patriots were famous for this during their run.

Boyd would be my primary high value guy to move on from in hopes of obtaining a high level olineman and potential 2nd round draft pick immediately after the Super Bowl. This was prior to Karras & Cappa.

Last season I may have also suggested Bates, that would most likely had been a mistake as Dax obviously wasnt ready.

Tag and trading Tee seems to be the player with the most value we have this season that we would be willing to part with.

Some names worth mentioning:

DT Madubuike of the Ravens is likely to be a high end signing. Very solid PFF grades, only 26 yrs old, with 14 sacks,16 hits and 32 hurries.

DT Wilkins of Miami is 28 and had 9 sacks this season and seen as a Top 10 DT.


If we dont resign Jonah
RT Trent Brown could be a money saver and is absolutely leaving NE. He missed some games and he has been at odds with the Patriots. But in 579 snaps this season he has an overall PFF grade of 80.3 (72.8 P & 80.8 R).

Not sure if RT Eluemunore will leave the Raiders as Im sure they will try to resign him, but he had a good season giving up 5 sacks and a PFF score of 70.0

[Nicomo Cosca]

Would love to land Chris Jones. Especially if we miss out on Newton.

[casear2727]

(01-02-2024, 01:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Would love to land Chris Jones. Especially if we miss out on Newton.

Pay Tee 25M over the next 3 years or Chris Jones?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2024, 02:09 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Pay Tee 25M over the next 3 years or Chris Jones?

Chris Jones.

Tee gets hurt too much, and we have Chase. If we consistently give Chase the amount of targets McVay gives guys like Kupp and now Puka he’ll win a triple crown.

And we’d have a beast at DT to go along with Trey.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-02-2024, 02:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chris Jones.

Tee gets hurt too much, and we have Chase. If we consistently give Chase the amount of targets McVay gives guys like Kupp and now Puka he’ll win a triple crown.

And we’d have a beast at DT to go along with Trey.

The problem with that is we have Zac Taylor, not Sean McVay.

Just an example...

Ja'Marr Chase Week 1 2023


Puka Nacua Week 1 2023

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2024, 04:47 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The problem with that is we have Zac Taylor, not Sean McVay.

Just an example...

Ja'Marr Chase Week 1 2023


Puka Nacua Week 1 2023

Oh trust me I’m under no illusions that Zac is anywhere close to McVay. I just see guys like Lamb and Tyreek averaging 10.5 targets a game and I want to see Chase in double digits as well. A lot of his best plays over the past few years have just been Ja’Marr doing Ja’Marr things anyway.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2024, 04:47 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The problem with that is we have Zac Taylor, not Sean McVay.

Just an example...

Ja'Marr Chase Week 1 2023


Puka Nacua Week 1 2023

Also just noticed you picked the monsoon game but your point still stands.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-02-2024, 06:27 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Also just noticed you picked the monsoon game but your point still stands.

Honestly forgot it was the storm game. Lol.

I wish that I could find those charts for an entire season for a player being shown at once. Am I just dumb and overlooking it or is it not an option?

[TecmoBengals]

Boyd should absolutely be a conversation piece since he's heading toward free agency.

I don't think we should keep him unless it's on the super organizational friendly deal. I suspect this week is Boyd's last game with Cincinnati because not many pro athletes take team friendly deals.

[jj22]

(01-02-2024, 02:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Chris Jones.

Tee gets hurt too much, and we have Chase. If we consistently give Chase the amount of targets McVay gives guys like Kupp and now Puka he’ll win a triple crown.

And we’d have a beast at DT to go along with Trey.

Plus the one thing the FO is good at is finding Wideouts in the draft. I trust them to find Tee's replacement in the draft vs a DT that can contribute right away.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-02-2024, 03:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: Plus the one thing the FO is good at is finding Wideouts in the draft. I trust them to find Tee's replacement in the draft vs a DT that can contribute right away.

Only in rounds 1-2.

-Last time they got a productive WR outside of the first two rounds was Sanu and Marvin Jones in 2012, and that was 12 drafts ago now. 
-Not sure if we would count Henry in 2005 as there were some very clear reasons why he was a 3rd round pick, and he never really lived up to potential. 
-Then you have to go back to 2001 for Housh. 
-Then there's a giant gap to like 1979 for I guess Steve Kreider.

[WeezyBengal]

(01-02-2024, 02:09 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Pay Tee 25M over the next 3 years or Chris Jones?

If you really want a championship caliber TEAM - Chris Jones is the guy you want. He SIGNIFICANTLY upgrades the weakest part of your team. 

I also have some serious concerns with Tees durability. 

Plus, the Bengals have and are going to pay Chase. I also trust their ability to develop WR. 

[puddycat]

The list of positions that the Bengals don't draft and develop begins and ends with the offensive and defensive lines; 3 positions on offense and 3 positions on defense. These are also positions that are difficult to drop rookies into with good results. So we've poured money into the trenches with mixed results.
We didn't need to trade Boyd to sign Karras and Cappa. Starters on their 2nd contract can expect to cost a minimum of $6M (Karras & Hilton). By the stats Boyd has not slipped. We have a shortage of veterans so if we could keep Boyd here for his final contract at his current price I would support that, even more important if Higgins isn't retained.
I don't like doubling up with expensive FAs at a position. The exceptions are DE and CB which are valuable positions that platoon and have experienced injury. Or we could replace Reader with some god at the run and has a pass rush. I'd like to see 3rd down speed rusher, i.e. Haasan Reddick a top end CB.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-02-2024, 01:24 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Would love to land Chris Jones. Especially if we miss out on Newton.

I don;t think Jones will hit the market, i believe Chiefs will tag him.

[QueenCity]

You take Jones for many of reasons.

1. Bengals need to get better on defense
2. You can find a WR in the draft if he isn't already on the team
3. You make the Chiefs weaker


Love Boyd but his time has come - unless he's back on an Uber friendly deal we can get his production for much cheaper.

[*Synric*]

If the Bengals are going to spend 20+ mil per year on an outside free agent my pick is Christian Wilkins. A Nose Tackle that is one of the best in the NFL against the run and now showing he can get pressure. He would immediately step into the starting spot next to BJ Hill filling a need and open up the draft class which includes solid group of Defensive Tackles.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-02-2024, 07:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I don;t think Jones will hit the market, i believe Chiefs will tag him.

Not sure I see that happening. It would cost them $30.6 million to do so.

It was reported on Tuesday that Jones’ re-worked deal does NOT include a no-tag clause. So while it would be expensive, the Chiefs could, in theory, tag him and control him for 2024. Based on his new deal, his 2024 franchise tag tender would cost the Chiefs $30.6 million. That’s pricey — but it is still less than the average annual value (AAV) of the record-setting contract given to Los Angeles Rams’ defensive tackle Aaron Donald.

But after seeing the contentious nature of the negotiations between Jones and the Chiefs, it’s possible we could see another holdout. Jones has very clearly demonstrated he’s not afraid of paying fines to make his point — and the Chiefs have shown they won’t be held hostage by any player.

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2023/9/13/23870251/chiefs-roster-3-ways-handle-chris-jones-2024

[*pally*]

(01-02-2024, 12:26 AM)casear2727 Wrote: The old Tyler Boyd thread bump had NOTHING to do with calling out any poster.  Which I didnt.  I specifically said that I could have been wrong then and still be wrong today.

I remember the conversation vividly as it went 8 pages with many opinions shared.  I hoped to see if anyone had changed their minds due to Boyd's diminished productivity the last 2 seasons.  

My hope was to parlay that conversation into one regarding moving on from good players that have real value due to the impact that Burrow & Chase will have on the cap moving forward.  The Patriots were famous for this during their run.

Boyd would be my primary high value guy to move on from in hopes of obtaining a high level olineman and potential 2nd round draft pick immediately after the Super Bowl.  This was prior to Karras & Cappa.

Last season I may have also suggested Bates, that would most likely had been a mistake as Dax obviously wasnt ready.

Tag and trading Tee seems to be the player with the most value we have this season that we would be willing to part with.  

Some names worth mentioning:

DT Madubuike of the Ravens is likely to be a high end signing.  Very solid PFF grades, only 26 yrs old, with 14 sacks,16 hits and 32 hurries.

DT Wilkins of Miami is 28 and had 9 sacks this season and seen as a Top 10 DT.


If we dont resign Jonah
RT Trent Brown could be a money saver and is absolutely leaving NE.  He missed some games and he has been at odds with the Patriots.  But in 579 snaps this season he has an overall PFF grade of 80.3 (72.8 P & 80.8 R).

Not sure if RT Eluemunore will leave the Raiders as Im sure they will try to resign him, but he had a good season giving up 5 sacks and a PFF score of 70.0

I cannot see Zac wanting him on the team

https://patriotswire.usatoday.com/2024/01/01/latest-report-patriots-ol-trent-brown-troubling-many-reasons/

Quote: One of the biggest surprises heading into Sunday’s game against the Buffalo Bills was seeing offensive tackle Trent Brown’s name pop up as a healthy scratch on the inactive list.

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)]Coach Bill Belichick didn’t offer much of a reason for that decision on Monday, but the Boston Sports Journal’s Mike Giardi shed light on the situation with a troubling report on Sunday.[/color]
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)]Per Giardi, Brown, who had been banged up with injuries initially, “could have returned before and did not” for the Patriots. His unwillingness to do so seemingly rubbed an unnamed player in the locker room the wrong way.

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)]“A lot of us — almost all — are fighting for each other and for pride, even though the results aren’t what any of us want,” the unnamed player told Giardi, via NESN’s Sean T. McGuire. “It sucks that not everyone is willing to put it out there. I hope people who sign the checks are paying attention.”

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)]Giardi wrote further on Brown allegedly shutting down early on the team:

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)]Internally, I’m told, there was belief Brown could have returned before and did not. The belief was that he was protecting himself and his future earnings in a season without the promise of a postseason.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)]With the number of players on the roster who were playing through injuries — including those on the offensive line — needless to say, that hasn’t gone over very well (and nor should it).

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)]The Patriots have been decimated by injuries on the offensive front, and Brown’s availability would have been a huge lift in games. Yet, the team has been forced to rely on a combination of Conor McDermott and Vederian Lowe at tackle.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.72)]With other players banged up on the roster, it would make sense why there might be frustrations in the locker room, if Brown is indeed guilty of checking out early. If anything, this makes it highly unlikely the veteran offensive lineman will be back with New England in 2024.[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]

[Luvnit2]

(01-02-2024, 03:31 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Only in rounds 1-2.

-Last time they got a productive WR outside of the first two rounds was Sanu and Marvin Jones in 2012, and that was 12 drafts ago now. 
-Not sure if we would count Henry in 2005 as there were some very clear reasons why he was a 3rd round pick, and he never really lived up to potential. 
-Then you have to go back to 2001 for Housh. 
-Then there's a giant gap to like 1979 for I guess Steve Kreider.

In all fairness, Boyd was our slot guy since 2016 and no reason to draft a slot guy high in the draft, we also have Chase and Tee Hiigins now ad had AJ Green until 2020.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-03-2024, 12:53 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: In all fairness, Boyd was our slot guy since 2016 and no reason to draft a slot guy high in the draft, we also have Chase and Tee Hiigins now ad had AJ Green until 2020.

They've drafted 8 WRs after the 2nd round since 2012, though. So it's not like they're not still drafting guys. They just haven't hit on any of them. I'm not arguing that they can't find WRs in the 1st and 2nd round. They have a very good hit rate on those guys. Just after the 2nd round it's largely a wasteland.