Salary Cap Discussion

[J24]

(01-23-2024, 10:47 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Then we would have a better BJ but still with a disappointing Carter.  I'd rather cut Carter and save that 1.5M, that would reduce BJ's hit from 7 to 5.5 theoretically. 

Or you could sign a guy like Maurice Hurst as a backup 3T for a cheaper rate + a new draft pick like Dewayne carter in rounds 3-5.

[casear2727]

(01-23-2024, 11:04 AM)J24 Wrote: Or you could sign a guy like Maurice Hurst as a backup 3T for a cheaper rate + a new draft pick like Dewayne carter in rounds 3-5.

Hurst didnt come close to playing half the snaps that BJ did.  He was good when he did play though.  I can see us signing Hurst as our "big splash" DT instead of reserve role as he should be.

It is difficult to trust any ST in the draft, but especially their rookie season.  It will be interesting, we need another 3T and a NT.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-20-2024, 02:28 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Im guessing that Seattle almost HAS to re-sign Leonard Williams due to what they gave up to get him, but he is an excellent interior rusher that is a free agent. 

You are almost assuredly correct. I mean, the chances of Baltimore or Miami letting Madubuike or Wilkins get away is also extremely low in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, worth a try. But catching a big fish in FA does not happen that often. 

And even when you do, switching systems can lead to issues, especially early on. It is why I prefer keeping guys who are productive and proven in house. Despite Tee's down year & Reader's injury, I still put those guys in that category. Top 5 guys on the team (Burrow, Chase, Hendrickson, Reader, Higgins). I
 want to upgrade AROUND those guys, not let them walk. 

Overpaying for guys who are not true impact guys gets you in more trouble, in my view. Jonah & Boyd & Chido are more in that category. Though Chido could bounce back with better health. 

This happens when teams have $$$ to spend and cannot land a true tier 1 guy. 

Though I will admit, at some point, if you have more holes to fill, 3 $7 mil guys instead of 1 $21 mil guy can make some sense. 

But I just feel, even if we bring back Tee & Reader, we are 1-2 diffetence makers shy. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-23-2024, 10:47 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Then we would have a better BJ but still with a disappointing Carter.  I'd rather cut Carter and save that 1.5M, that would reduce BJ's hit from 7 to 5.5 theoretically. 

Cutting Carter only saves you $948k in cap space. $1.385m cap hit, $437k dead cap hit.

Also seems early to give up on a 3rd round pick who is only expected to be a backup, though I have a sneaking suspicion he's more of a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DT. He was 282lbs at the combine which at 6'4" puts him closer to Sam Hubbard than BJ Hill.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-23-2024, 05:20 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You are almost assuredly correct. I mean, the chances of Baltimore or Miami letting Madubuike or Wilkins get away is also extremely low in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, worth a try. But catching a big fish in FA does not happen that often. 

Are you sure?  From what I was reading, Miami is going to be $41M over the cap, meaning that they will have to make some serious changes.

https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/miami-dolphins-cap-crisis-is-upon-team-in-2024

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-23-2024, 06:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Are you sure?  From what I was reading, Miami is going to be $41M over the cap, meaning that they will have to make some serious changes.

https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/miami-dolphins-cap-crisis-is-upon-team-in-2024

They really burdened themselves by having two top-7 paid CBs that are both 30+ and underperforming. $53m cap hit for Ramsey and Howard.

Easy ~$14m clear for them by cutting Ogbah, but certainly some other cap shenanigans that need to happen.

[Soonerpeace]

One bright spot about the AFCN is we are in better shape than all of them salary cap wise and improving roster by free agency and draft order.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-23-2024, 06:37 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: One bright spot about the AFCN is we are in better shape than all of them salary cap wise and improving roster by free agency and draft order.

But it also makes you wonder. If we had put ourselves into a worse salary cap spot in 2024 by trying to squeeze more talent onto the roster in 2021 and 2022 via cap gymnastics, would we care about being in a bad cap spot now if we had 1 or 2 SB trophies? We'd still have a franchise QB and a #1 WR either way, so it isn't like we'd go 4-12 while paying off all our dead cap debt for a year before we could reload, we'd still be competitive. There's little doubt in my mind that if we managed to squeeze some more talent onto that 2021 team they would have won it all. It came down to the wire as it was.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-23-2024, 08:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: But it also makes you wonder. If we had put ourselves into a worse salary cap spot in 2024 by trying to squeeze more talent onto the roster in 2021 and 2022 via cap gymnastics, would we care about being in a bad cap spot now if we had 1 or 2 SB trophies? We'd still have a franchise QB and a #1 WR either way, so it isn't like we'd go 4-12 while paying off all our dead cap debt for a year before we could reload, we'd still be competitive. There's little doubt in my mind that if we managed to squeeze some more talent onto that 2021 team they would have won it all. It came down to the wire as it was.

I think there’s some validity on the other hand it’s risky. The Bills in awful shape moving forward. Miami not much better. Rams it worked. The Ravens YTBD this year as they aren’t looking as good next year.

[jj22]

I don’t think we need to make cap cuts for the sake of savings.

[TKUHL]

Would like to see us address the following positions in the draft/FA.
RT, DT, TE, C (move Karras to LG) CB, S, DE

RB- Trayveon Williams -Walk/draft RB
WR- Trenton Irwin - Keep
TE- Tanner Hudson - Definately Keep
TE- Drew Sample -Walk/Draft TE (Brock of course, Stover or Sinnott)
G- Max Scharping - Keep
DT- DJ Reader - Keep if reasonable. Still need to address in FA/Drat
LB- Akeem Davis-Gaither - Fine either way
LB- Joe Bachie - Would like to keep for ST
LB- Markus Bailey - Walk

[casear2727]

(01-23-2024, 05:51 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Cutting Carter only saves you $948k in cap space. $1.385m cap hit, $437k dead cap hit.

Also seems early to give up on a 3rd round pick who is only expected to be a backup, though I have a sneaking suspicion he's more of a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DT. He was 282lbs at the combine which at 6'4" puts him closer to Sam Hubbard than BJ Hill.

Of course you are correct, I was just making the point if we are going to cut a DT it shouldn't be BJ this season.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-24-2024, 12:27 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Of course you are correct, I was just making the point if we are going to cut a DT it shouldn't be BJ this season.

Agreed. Hill isn't a world beater, but he's not being paid as a world beater either. He's a solid starter and we'd be hard pressed to replace his production at the same or less cap space without using a high draft pick that is needed for other things.

Now heading into 2025 when he's both a FA and entering his age 30 season, that's a whole different conversation. Lol

[Bengal Dude]

(01-23-2024, 08:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: But it also makes you wonder. If we had put ourselves into a worse salary cap spot in 2024 by trying to squeeze more talent onto the roster in 2021 and 2022 via cap gymnastics, would we care about being in a bad cap spot now if we had 1 or 2 SB trophies? We'd still have a franchise QB and a #1 WR either way, so it isn't like we'd go 4-12 while paying off all our dead cap debt for a year before we could reload, we'd still be competitive. There's little doubt in my mind that if we managed to squeeze some more talent onto that 2021 team they would have won it all. It came down to the wire as it was.

A Super Bowl win usually buys you some time with fans if you immediately fall off afterwards. Look at the Rams. They went 5-12 after winning the Super Bowl and their fan base (I know it's LA) was just kind of meh towards it because they still had the Lombardi.

[Billy_Bengal]

(01-24-2024, 01:54 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: A Super Bowl win usually buys you some time with fans if you immediately fall off afterwards. Look at the Rams. They went 5-12 after winning the Super Bowl and their fan base (I know it's LA) was just kind of meh towards it because they still had the Lombardi.

I hate to say it, but I think I’d take 5-12 for a decade if it meant we had a Lombardi.

[Bengal Dude]

(01-25-2024, 01:01 AM)Billy_Bengal Wrote: I hate to say it, but I think I’d take 5-12 for a decade if it meant we had a Lombardi.

Almost all of the fan base would. Various media members have done polls about this scenario and it always winds up over 95% of people saying they'd take a losing decade if it meant the Bengals winning a Super Bowl.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-24-2024, 01:54 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: A Super Bowl win usually buys you some time with fans if you immediately fall off afterwards. Look at the Rams. They went 5-12 after winning the Super Bowl and their fan base (I know it's LA) was just kind of meh towards it because they still had the Lombardi.

After the predictably down season, the Rams rebounded somewhat this season and even made the playoffs.  I guess that can be attributed to their management and coaching staff?

[007BengalsFan]

(01-24-2024, 01:10 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Agreed. Hill isn't a world beater, but he's not being paid as a world beater either. He's a solid starter and we'd be hard pressed to replace his production at the same or less cap space without using a high draft pick that is needed for other things.

Now heading into 2025 when he's both a FA and entering his age 30 season, that's a whole different conversation. Lol

Hill is the #20 highest paid DT in the NFL so he is being paid pretty good.   Hill certainly isnt one of the top 20 DTs in the NFL although I do agree it would be hard to replace him with someone better at the same price.

[*Synric*]

(01-23-2024, 06:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They really burdened themselves by having two top-7 paid CBs that are both 30+ and underperforming. $53m cap hit for Ramsey and Howard.

Easy ~$14m clear for them by cutting Ogbah, but certainly some other cap shenanigans that need to happen.

They are in the window for Waddle and Tua extensions which is something to consider. I think they also have 2 starting IOL, a starting Linebacker, and Safety free agents this year as well.

I mean we all know the NFL salary cap is fluid but Miami isn't in great position. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-25-2024, 02:38 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Hill is the #20 highest paid DT in the NFL so he is being paid pretty good.   Hill certainly isnt one of the top 20 DTs in the NFL although I do agree it would be hard to replace him with someone better at the same price.

4-way tie for 20th. What guys are paid are almost never equal to what rank they are at their position. That's never going to line up because you have guys who are still on rookie deals, you have guys who are better but signed a deal a couple years ago and the numbers must always go up because the cap keeps going up, you have guys who are good but coming off injury or a down year and are on a lower 1-year prove-it deal, and then you have guys who are good but old and it's just a fact that the vast majority of older guys get less money because there's more risk.

Yeah, I think you just gotta roll with him in 2024, and then in 2025 when he's a FA you need to find a young guy to replace him. Need to slowly bring more youth (and cost savings as Burrow's cap hits increase) to that DL. The NT this year will be step 1.