Irv Smith and Nick Scott

[WeezyBengal]

Two of the worst free agent signings in team history.

This isn't getting talked about enough. Why does the front office, and mainly Tobin, get off the hook for such an abysmal off-season last year?

Orlando Brown was basically gift wrapped to us. Every other move we made stunk and let's not talk about the guys that got away.

Really need to see more from Duke this off-season.

[pulses]

(02-17-2024, 01:14 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Two of the worst free agent signings in team history.

This isn't getting talked about enough. Why does the front office, and mainly Tobin, get off the hook for such an abysmal off-season last year?

Orlando Brown was basically gift wrapped to us. Every other move we made stunk and let's not talk about the guys that got away.

Really need to see more from Duke this off-season.

Bell was a 64 pff and his last year with Cincy was a 66 so he worse. Hurst was a 44.7 pff and the last year with us he was a 65...they both regressed with their new teams or are they just getting older? letting those 2 go was probably not as bad as first thought.SO the FO didnt do so terrible on those choices....Smith and Scott was a total waste I agree...They could have signed ANYONE to play better than Scott did. And Smith was even worse. This franchise finally has to address the TE position maybe with the new OC and others that will change a bit.

[*bfine32*]

(02-17-2024, 01:14 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Two of the worst free agent signings in team history.

This isn't getting talked about enough. Why does the front office, and mainly Tobin, get off the hook for such an abysmal off-season last year?

Orlando Brown was basically gift wrapped to us. Every other move we made stunk and let's not talk about the guys that got away.

Really need to see more from Duke this off-season.

You haven't followed the team for very long, have you?

Smith was signed to a cheap 1-Year contract. Nick was paid a little more, but he'll cost us $2 Mil in dead Cap (saving $2.3 MIL) in cap this year.

I also thought we did pretty good at signing a backup QB

[Nicomo Cosca]

I think people talked about how bad those two were plenty.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-17-2024, 01:27 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You haven't followed the team for very long, have you?

Smith was signed to a cheap 1-Year contract. Nick was paid a little more, but he'll cost us $2 Mil in dead Cap (saving $2.3 MIL) in cap this year.

I also thought we did pretty good at signing a backup QB

I won't go as far as saying they're two of the worst ever, but there's more than just money that a bad signing costs a team. There's also opportunity cost. They were both given starting jobs and playing time because of their signings and because of their signing they didn't actually try to get actual NFL caliber starters. 

Both of them started and played the majority of the snaps in Week 2 when we lost by 3. Would a better TE or a better S have been able to change that L into a W in an important division game? The Houston game was another one. I am not saying that they definitively were the reason we lost and we would have won if they weren't on the team, but they were taking starts and playing time away from someone who could have been better and games can really swing on thin margins and having two really bad starters on your team makes it that much harder.

Jake Browning joined the Bengals in 2021, so that would actually be a re-signing.

[WeezyBengal]

(02-17-2024, 01:27 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You haven't followed the team for very long, have you?

Smith was signed to a cheap 1-Year contract. Nick was paid a little more, but he'll cost us $2 Mil in dead Cap (saving $2.3 MIL) in cap this year.

I also thought we did pretty good at signing a backup QB

It's not so much about the cost as it was the complete swing and miss in quality of player during a Super Bowl window. 

They signed these guys to be starters on a Super Bowl caliber team, remember. 

[WeezyBengal]

(02-17-2024, 08:47 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I won't go as far as saying they're two of the worst ever, but there's more than just money that a bad signing costs a team. There's also opportunity cost. They were both given starting jobs and playing time because of their signings and because of their signing they didn't actually try to get actual NFL caliber starters. 

Both of them started and played the majority of the snaps in Week 2 when we lost by 3. Would a better TE or a better S have been able to change that L into a W in an important division game? The Houston game was another one. I am not saying that they definitively were the reason we lost and we would have won if they weren't on the team, but they were taking starts and playing time away from someone who could have been better and games can really swing on thin margins and having two really bad starters on your team makes it that much harder.

Jake Browning joined the Bengals in 2021, so that would actually be a re-signing.

Exactly. 

The signing themselves in a vaccum were meh. The signings, based on who they replaced, coming off of two back to back AFC Championship games...were disastrous. 

This wasn't us signing Antonio Bryant coming off a 5 win season. This was us replacing Jessie Bates with Nick Scott and Hayden Hurst with Irv Smith, then losing Vonn Bell, Perine, etc. All during a Super Bowl window.

Disaster of an off-season.  

[WeezyBengal]

(02-17-2024, 02:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I think people talked about how bad those two were plenty.

Let's talk about it some more and he how Duke needs to do better this off-season.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-17-2024, 01:14 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Two of the worst free agent signings in team history.

This isn't getting talked about enough. Why does the front office, and mainly Tobin, get off the hook for such an abysmal off-season last year?

Orlando Brown was basically gift wrapped to us. Every other move we made stunk and let's not talk about the guys that got away.

Really need to see more from Duke this off-season.

They whiffed this past year. But they’ve also bullseyed on Trey, B J (trade) Reader,
Hilton, Hudson, and Karras.

[QueenCity]

Not getting one of those Tight Ends in the draft last year was a HUGE mistake. They are all going to turn out solid

LaPorte, Mayer, Musgraves - I'm sure I'm missing some more.

I will take a hit on the Irving signing... I did think it was a good move pending if he could stay healthy. Didn't realize how bad he actually was.

[masonbengals fan]

(02-17-2024, 01:14 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Two of the worst free agent signings in team history.

This isn't getting talked about enough. Why does the front office, and mainly Tobin, get off the hook for such an abysmal off-season last year?

Orlando Brown was basically gift wrapped to us. Every other move we made stunk and let's not talk about the guys that got away.

Really need to see more from Duke this off-season.

At the least 2 of the worst signings in recent history. Huge drop-off in performance from those 2 spots. 

[*bfine32*]

(02-17-2024, 08:47 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I won't go as far as saying they're two of the worst ever, but there's more than just money that a bad signing costs a team. There's also opportunity cost. They were both given starting jobs and playing time because of their signings and because of their signing they didn't actually try to get actual NFL caliber starters. 

Both of them started and played the majority of the snaps in Week 2 when we lost by 3. Would a better TE or a better S have been able to change that L into a W in an important division game? The Houston game was another one. I am not saying that they definitively were the reason we lost and we would have won if they weren't on the team, but they were taking starts and playing time away from someone who could have been better and games can really swing on thin margins and having two really bad starters on your team makes it that much harder.

Jake Browning joined the Bengals in 2021, so that would actually be a re-signing.

We signed Jake Browning to a contract in JAN 23. So Ima classify it as a signing.  We can call it whatever we like but we gotta give Duke credit for it if we want to be fair. 

No one is arguing that Irv and Scott were good signings. But on a franchise that has signed: Antonio Bryant, Cordy Glenn (I know), Brought in Scott Mitchell to replace Jeff Blake, Antwan Odom, Ben Utecht, Gus Frerotte among others. I put Smith and Scott pretty far down the list

[*bfine32*]

(02-17-2024, 11:15 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: At the least 2 of the worst signings in recent history. Huge drop-off in performance from those 2 spots. 

I cannot confirm but I think someone states our TEs had more receiving yards this year, than the year prior. WTS, yes they were bad signings, but we've also made some very good ones recently. 

[masonbengals fan]

(02-17-2024, 11:21 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I cannot confirm but I think someone states our TEs had more receiving yards this year, than the year prior. WTS, yes they were bad signings, but we've also made some very good ones recently. 

I agree we have had good signings. My post was about those 2 specifically. I didn't say they were the worst just bad. LOL

[Soonerpeace]

(02-17-2024, 10:56 AM)QueenCity Wrote: Not getting one of those Tight Ends in the draft last year was a HUGE mistake. They are all going to turn out solid

LaPorte, Mayer, Musgraves - I'm sure I'm missing some more.

I will take a hit on the Irving signing... I did think it was a good move pending if he could stay healthy. Didn't realize how bad he actually was.

Just curious your thoughts based on your comments. Kincaid went before us to Buffalo so he was out. LaPorta went second pick in second round so we’d had to gone with him as our first pick. Let’s not show ridiculous hindsight. La Porta was great but knowing Joe is going with Tee and Chase first on every read then check to the running back. I heard that had La Porta been there for us round 2 they’d pulled the trigger. If you want to say we should have drafted him 1 I’d say you are a great judge of talent. Mayer went early second round. He didn’t do much at the Raiders and they hated his blocking. Don’t know how he did in that regard per PFF. We’d had to pick him first round. Knowing Joe’s propensity to not go to the TE don’t think that works. Musgrave again went before our second pick and was he worth a first rounder? He had 1 TD and 35 catches? Schoonmaker at Dallas went late second round we’d had to pick him 1 and he is at least so far considered a bust at Dallas in the second round. Brenton Strange went #61 right before us at #62. He’s been a huge bust. He’s third team. Geez there’d be 50 threads right now if we’d drafted him 1. After that the drafting of tight ends dropped off.

JMO the Bengals weren’t ready to reach for a TE like Detroit did. They did nail it and due respect. But a lot of teams did too. In retrospect they loved their first pick in Myles Murphy I’m in agreement that we need a better more dynamic TE and one that’s not a rental. I hear the FO agrees. I look for them to draft one in round 2 or 3 if ones there they like. But I don’t fault them for last year the way the draft went. They whiffed on Irv Smith but had little exposure.

[The D.O.Z.]

In hindsight, they were terrible signings for sure. Worst? No. Trae Wayne's and Antonio Bryant send their regards!

Wts, the Scott signing was short-sighted and rightfully so. They already had Tycen Anderson rostered and were probably figuring on taking a safety in the 2022 draft. He was one of those "sign X guy so we don't have to reach, it opens up the draft" band aid signings ALL clubs do. He had some decent tape in the starts he had in LA. Thankfully the Jordan Battle pick happened and thankfully it seems to be working out! As bad as he was, I don't see us cutting him w $2million+ of deadcap unless they draft a guy late-ish. He'll stay on as a backup one more year, unfortunately.

With Irv, I was one that was hopeful (and expectant) that he'd turn his career around here provided he stayed healthy. Man, was I wrong! And I wish I could pinpoint one thing he did at least somewhat well, but I can't. Sit on the bench? Does that count? Collect a check?!

[Frank Booth]

Nick Scott in LA was made to look better than he actually was. His defensive teammates were...

Jalen Ramsey
Aaron Donald
Von Miller
Bobby Wagner
and that other guy defensive end that had 10+sacks

[*bfine32*]

(02-17-2024, 11:44 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I agree we have had good signings. My post was about those 2 specifically. I didn't say they were the worst just bad. LOL

Oh we definitely could have done better. 

On Smith I think we took a shot at "upside" he was young and a high draft pick who had been derailed by injury. It didn't workout, but we didn't invest much to find out. 

On Scott I think we were just trying to save cap. We lost the 2 highest-paid safeties in FA. I consider this a much worse signing than Smith, but luckily we can part ways and it only costs $2 Mil in dead cap. 

To the board member's credit; I don't recall anyone being too happy about either signing.

The fact we didn't invest much pushes me away from "worst signings ever". Hell, we're still paying for Collins. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-17-2024, 01:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh we definitely could have done better. 

On Smith I think we took a shot at "upside" he was young and a high draft pick who had been derailed by injury. It didn't workout, but we didn't invest much to find out. 

On Scott I think we were just trying to save cap. We lost the 2 highest-paid safeties in FA. I consider this a much worse signing than Smith, but luckily we can part ways and it only costs $2 Mil in dead cap.

To the board member's credit; I don't recall anyone being too happy about either signing.

The fact we didn't invest much pushes me away from "worst signings ever". Hell, we're still paying for Collins. 

^This^

Smith they were rolling the dice a bit. Sometimes it works sometimes not. Scott just had bad written all over it.

[samhain]

Surely the team believed that enough core pieces were in place that signing marginal talent was enough to plug holes.

Who knows? If Burrow plays a full, healthy season, perhaps the Smith and Scott would be afterthoughts. I'd say undoubtedly for Smith, maybe less so for Scott.

They need to do better in finding guys that fit, but these signings were made with the thought of this team making a deep run with one of the best QBs in the league. Neither are difference makers, but if the remainder of the roster is intact, it probably covers up a lot of inadequacies.

This will be the case for most of the remaining Burrow era.