Thoughts on Dre K ?

[fredtoast]

(12-15-2015, 05:16 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Sure but you can't claim that something said is "not true at all" when it is in fact, partially true

He has not committed "a ton" of penalties.

[Marlon23]

(12-15-2015, 05:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He has not committed "a ton" of penalties.

I've had real fun today Fred!!!    I wondered where you been!! glad to see you...!!!

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-15-2015, 05:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He has not committed "a ton" of penalties.

Yes he has. Second in the league for his position is a ton.
Especially considering the lack of reciprocal big plays he isn't making.

Penalties on Talib are forgiven because he also makes a lot of huge plays coupled with generally consistent CB play.
Dre give you the penalties and generally consistent play but no upside of big plays right now. 

Talib being physical leads to these plays and penalties. You accept one to get the other. If you want to accept his penalties, you have to get something in return

[*jason*]

(12-13-2015, 09:17 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: So we've seen Dre K play as much as he ever has in the past.  

Do you guys think he's someone we should retain?

No.  He sucks.  He is constantly running his yap, and he has apparently never committed a penalty (he is constantly arguing calls).  He was a good gunner last year, but that's it... I've seen enough.  I like Josh Shaw much better, and I've always thought Dennard would be a better player than Dre.

[*jason*]

(12-15-2015, 04:26 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He doesn't get burned that much because he's not that bad. 
penalties have been his killer this year. 

Penalties are bad.

[Beaker]

(12-15-2015, 07:59 PM)jason Wrote: No.  He sucks.  He is constantly running his yap, and he has apparently never committed a penalty (he is constantly arguing calls).  He was a good gunner last year, but that's it... I've seen enough.  I like Josh Shaw much better, and I've always thought Dennard would be a better player than Dre.

This is just sad.

[PDub80]

If Dre K was a 2nd or 3rd round pick or a 3rd or 4th CB on the depth chart I would think he was meeting expectations. He is a loose cannon and a liability. When the other team throws at him I always wait for 3 things:

1. The flag.
2. The dramatic "look at me I made a basic play", even if the guy just dropped it or it was a horrible throw.
3. The dramatic "The WR fouled me" tantrum after a big gain.

If Dre K put out as much energy contesting the actual throw and catch as he does crying to the officials in disbelief I would think he'd be a good player. Other teams PICK ON HIM AND IT WORKS. That says it all to me.

- In comparison, Adam Jones is clearly a 1st round CB and possesses gifted abilities and acumen for the game. Dre K has not shown even an Adam Jones' nuttsack full of talent in comparison.

I think that Shaw has a ton of upside. Dennard I am not sure about. I hope he can last a whole season at some point.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Needs to go. Can't believe they picked up his 5th year option. Good for a bone-headed penalty a game, gets torched a lot. Last I heard PFF (which admittedly isn't the end-all-be-all of judgement, but is a good reference material) had him only having two positively graded games all year. He's also a terrible tackler.

Said it 4 years ago when they first made the pick, will say it now. Kid's a bust. Hopefully Dennard shows some more next year when he gets a chance to start.

[Fresno B]

(12-15-2015, 09:01 PM)PDub80 Wrote: If Dre K was a 2nd or 3rd round pick or a 3rd or 4th CB on the depth chart I would think he was meeting expectations. He is a loose cannon and a liability. When the other team throws at him I always wait for 3 things:

1. The flag.
2. The dramatic "look at me I made a basic play", even if the guy just dropped it or it was a horrible throw.
3.  The dramatic "The WR fouled me" tantrum after a big gain.

If Dre K put out as much energy contesting the actual throw and catch as he does crying to the officials in disbelief I would think he'd be a good player. Other teams PICK ON HIM AND IT WORKS. That says it all to me.

- In comparison, Adam Jones is clearly a 1st round CB and possesses gifted abilities and acumen for the game. Dre K has not shown even an Adam Jones' nuttsack full of talent in comparison.

I think that Shaw has a ton of upside. Dennard I am not sure about. I hope he can last a whole season at some point.

Rep

[Fresno B]

(12-15-2015, 09:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Needs to go. Can't believe they picked up his 5th year option. Good for a bone-headed penalty a game, gets torched a lot. Last I heard PFF (which admittedly isn't the end-all-be-all of judgement, but is a good reference material) had him only having two positively graded games all year. He's also a terrible tackler.

Said it 4 years ago when they first made the pick, will say it now. Kid's a bust. Hopefully Dennard shows some more next year when he gets a chance to start.

Rep

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-15-2015, 09:01 PM)PDub80 Wrote: If Dre K was a 2nd or 3rd round pick or a 3rd or 4th CB on the depth chart I would think he was meeting expectations. He is a loose cannon and a liability. When the other team throws at him I always wait for 3 things:

1. The flag.
2. The dramatic "look at me I made a basic play", even if the guy just dropped it or it was a horrible throw.
3.  The dramatic "The WR fouled me" tantrum after a big gain.

If Dre K put out as much energy contesting the actual throw and catch as he does crying to the officials in disbelief I would think he'd be a good player. Other teams PICK ON HIM AND IT WORKS. That says it all to me.

- In comparison, Adam Jones is clearly a 1st round CB and possesses gifted abilities and acumen for the game. Dre K has not shown even an Adam Jones' nuttsack full of talent in comparison.

I think that Shaw has a ton of upside. Dennard I am not sure about. I hope he can last a whole season at some point.

(12-15-2015, 09:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Needs to go. Can't believe they picked up his 5th year option. Good for a bone-headed penalty a game, gets torched a lot. Last I heard PFF (which admittedly isn't the end-all-be-all of judgement, but is a good reference material) had him only having two positively graded games all year. He's also a terrible tackler.

Said it 4 years ago when they first made the pick, will say it now. Kid's a bust. Hopefully Dennard shows some more next year when he gets a chance to start.

Dre can't be a good CB when he has to spend all that time pissing in your wheaties 

[PDub80]

(12-15-2015, 09:31 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Dre can't be a good CB when he has to spend all that time pissing in your wheaties 

Or when he's squatting down shitting in the bowl of whatever you're gobbling right up.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-15-2015, 09:58 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Or when he's squatting down shitting in the bowl of whatever you're gobbling right up.

If he was as bad as you claim, he'd have been benched awhile ago

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-15-2015, 10:21 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: If he was as bad as you claim, he'd have been benched awhile ago

http://www.nfl.com/player/jeremyhill/2543603/profile

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-15-2015, 10:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/player/jeremyhill/2543603/profile

What?

[PApinhead]

(12-15-2015, 09:01 PM)PDub80 Wrote: If Dre K was a 2nd or 3rd round pick or a 3rd or 4th CB on the depth chart I would think he was meeting expectations. He is a loose cannon and a liability. When the other team throws at him I always wait for 3 things:

1. The flag.
2. The dramatic "look at me I made a basic play", even if the guy just dropped it or it was a horrible throw.
3.  The dramatic "The WR fouled me" tantrum after a big gain.

If Dre K put out as much energy contesting the actual throw and catch as he does crying to the officials in disbelief I would think he'd be a good player. Other teams PICK ON HIM AND IT WORKS. That says it all to me.

- In comparison, Adam Jones is clearly a 1st round CB and possesses gifted abilities and acumen for the game. Dre K has not shown even an Adam Jones' nuttsack full of talent in comparison.

I think that Shaw has a ton of upside. Dennard I am not sure about. I hope he can last a whole season at some point.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.  At least for me.  He might not be horrible, but he is far from the first round pick that he should.  Maybe he'll get there, but I don't know.  I think I mentioned in an earlier post that I don't think we should get rid of him, we should keep him around as a backup, but I do think we need to think about another starting CB.

Some have mentioned Dre is not a very good tackler.  I tend to agree with them as it seems that he does whiff quite often or can't make the tackle.  I may be just remembering the bad or missed tackles more than the good ones though as poor tackling is one of my pet peeves.

I guess to sum it up, I'm not ready to completely write him off yet.  I think he can still contribute to the team, but I am disappointed in his level of play for where we drafted him.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-15-2015, 10:32 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: What?

Lack of performance hasn't equated to benching on the Bengals. Hill keeps getting the majority of the carries, Clarke has played in 11 games this year, Sanu has played in all the games, starting 3.

Marvin Lewis rarely ever benches anyone.  At least not in midseason. They kept running Lamur out there for the start every week last year despite him being one of the worst LBs in the NFL that year. Had to wait for this year to get his playing time scaled back.

The year before that, they started BJGE every single game despite 3.4 YPC. The next year he was out of the league, but still doesn't change the fact Marvin sticks with "his guys" during the season regardless of performance.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-15-2015, 10:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lack of performance hasn't equated to benching on the Bengals. Hill keeps getting the majority of the carries, Clarke has played in 11 games this year, Sanu has played in all the games, starting 3.

Marvin Lewis rarely ever benches anyone.  At least not in midseason. They kept running Lamur out there for the start every week last year despite him being one of the worst LBs in the NFL that year. Had to wait for this year to get his playing time scaled back.

The year before that, they started BJGE every single game despite 3.4 YPC. The next year he was out of the league, but still doesn't change the fact Marvin sticks with "his guys" during the season regardless of performance.

Because Gio has shown he wears down with too many carries. 
The differential in overall touches is small. Less than 20. 

[BigPapaKain]

Go back and watch his penalties. I remember like 3 that were legit and the rest were pretty tacky; the kind of stuff Sherman or Haden get away with constantly but they don't draw flags because of their names (much like how Brady gets flags for things that don't get flagged when they happen to Dalton).

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-15-2015, 10:51 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Because Gio has shown he wears down with too many carries. 
The differential in overall touches is small. Less than 20. 

The differential in overall production though, is huge. 1,060 yards to 666 yards.

If you look at every time Gio has gotten at least 20 touches in a game in his career (7 times) he has gotten at least 100 yards in all but one of them. If you look at the two games he's gotten at least 20 carries, he has a total of 47 carries/213 yards (4.5ypc)/1 TD and 8 catches/95 yards (11.9ypc) in them. So when he gets at least 20 carries, he's averaging 154 total yards a game. How is that wearing down?

I think his whole wearing down thing is vastly overplayed. He didn't get hurt last year because of wearing down, he got hurt because of some plays/throws that hung him out to dry in the flats. He's not tiny or anything.. he's 5'9, 205.

Matt Forte has made a career at 6'2, 215.
Jamaal Charles is 5'11, 199 and holds the NFL career YPC record last I heard.
LeSean McCoy is 5'11, 208.
DeMarco Murray led the NFL in rushing last year at 6'0, 217.