"Sweating " bullets

[kalibengal]

As we get closer to draft days , the obvious hole at NT we need to fill has me getting nervous. I keep seeing Sweat being ranked in the 25 to 40 range which puts him out of reach at pick #49. I hope they can swing a trade to get us in that range to grab him....after him its really one other guy : Jackson who is hard to tell about where he may get picked (rounds 3 to 5?) . What happens if they whiff completely in draft? Any potential trade targets or late cuts out there?
I have a bad feeling that one of the AFC N rivals will draft Sweat or Jackson.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-04-2024, 10:45 AM)kalibengal Wrote: As we get closer to draft days , the obvious hole at NT we need to fill has me getting nervous. I keep seeing Sweat being ranked in the 25 to 40 range which puts him out of reach at pick #49. I hope they can swing a trade to get us in that range to grab him....after him its really one other guy : Jackson who is hard to tell about where he may get picked (rounds 3 to 5?) . What happens if they whiff completely in draft? Any potential trade targets or late cuts out there?
I have a bad feeling that one of the AFC N rivals will draft Sweat or Jackson.

If Fuaga and Latham are drafted before 18, I'd be ok trading back into late 1st round and find a way to get Sweat either late in 1st or early 2nd (depending on what else Bengals would get to trade back ~10 spots).

[PDub80]

(04-04-2024, 10:45 AM)kalibengal Wrote: As we get closer to draft days , the obvious hole at NT we need to fill has me getting nervous. I keep seeing Sweat being ranked in the 25 to 40 range which puts him out of reach at pick #49. I hope they can swing a trade to get us in that range to grab him....after him its really one other guy : Jackson who is hard to tell about where he may get picked (rounds 3 to 5?) . What happens if they whiff completely in draft? Any potential trade targets or late cuts out there?
I have a bad feeling that one of the AFC N rivals will draft Sweat or Jackson.

- Sweat tested horrifically at the combine coming in nearly 40lbs over playing weight & tripping over himself & falling during agility drills.

His draft stock has fallen quite a bit. Obviously I don't know how NFL teams view him, but the guy is red flag city from a work ethic standpoint. Knock on him is slow get off at the snap. If the Bengals took him I'm not going to be sad or anything. The Bengals do very very good homework on character & work ethic.

- Jackson, on the other hand, is a 2 year captain at TX A&M, super high character, has production, and literally DJ Reader's dimensions. I think he's such a great fit for the Bengals that I would go rd 2 on him if no one falls that wows them. He COULD be there when the Bengals pick at either spots in rd 3.

[CJD]

I think T'Vondre Sweat is the only Nose Tackle prospect in this class that projects to be a good pass rusher as well. That's why he's highly valued in this draft class with so much talent at WR, OT and QB.

If we miss out on him, most of the remaining nose tackles in this draft are strictly run stoppers, and those DTs are often not drafted too highly. Even DJ Reader was a 5th round pick. Michael Pierce was undrafted, DaQuan Jones was a 4th rounder, Andrew Billings was a 4th rounder (despite him being considered a 1st rounder by most media outlets leading up to the draft), Travis Jones and Montravius Adams were 3rd rounders.

Basically, I wouldn't worry about losing out on McKinnley Jackson. If we miss on Sweat, I'd be bummed, but he has a variety of red flags associated with him. It may be best to look towards WR or CB in the 2nd round, and then draft Jackson at either 80 or 97. And, if for some reason he is taken before we can pick him, there are other options later in the draft like Khristian Boyd, Jordan Jefferson, Evan Anderson, and Justin Rogers (Who the Bengals brought in for a top 30 visit).

[SunsetBengal]

(04-04-2024, 11:04 AM)CJD Wrote: I think T'Vondre Sweat is the only Nose Tackle prospect in this class that projects to be a good pass rusher as well. That's why he's highly valued in this draft class with so much talent at WR, OT and QB.

If we miss out on him, most of the remaining nose tackles in this draft are strictly run stoppers, and those DTs are often not drafted too highly. Even DJ Reader was a 5th round pick. Michael Pierce was undrafted, DaQuan Jones was a 4th rounder, Andrew Billings was a 4th rounder (despite him being considered a 1st rounder by most media outlets leading up to the draft), Travis Jones and Montravius Adams were 3rd rounders.

Basically, I wouldn't worry about losing out on McKinnley Jackson. If we miss on Sweat, I'd be bummed, but he has a variety of red flags associated with him. It may be best to look towards WR or CB in the 2nd round, and then draft Jackson at either 80 or 97. And, if for some reason he is taken before we can pick him, there are other options later in the draft like Khristian Boyd, Jordan Jefferson, Evan Anderson, and Justin Rogers (Who the Bengals brought in for a top 30 visit).

I agree that Sweat and Jackson look like the prototypical NT you want when facing strong rushing attacks like those in the AFCN.

I'm also willing to bet on Maason Smith growing into that 6'6" frame and really getting some good push anywhere along the front 4. He might need a year or two to fully develop, but I see him as having huge upside in his career.

[Goalpost]

Kris Jenkins might not have the frame to anchor, but he has strength...29 reps. Don't know if the Bengals have shown any interest.

[XenoMorph]

(04-04-2024, 10:45 AM)kalibengal Wrote: As we get closer to draft days , the obvious hole at NT we need to fill has me getting nervous. I keep seeing Sweat being ranked in the 25 to 40 range which puts him out of reach at pick #49. I hope they can swing a trade to get us in that range to grab him....after him its really one other guy : Jackson who is hard to tell about where he may get picked (rounds 3 to 5?) . What happens if they whiff completely in draft? Any potential trade targets or late cuts out there?
I have a bad feeling that one of the AFC N rivals will draft Sweat or Jackson.

Ive seen him mocked to us in round 3

[PDub80]

(04-04-2024, 11:55 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree that Sweat and Jackson look like the prototypical NT you want when facing strong rushing attacks like those in the AFCN.

I'm also willing to bet on Maason Smith growing into that 6'6" frame and really getting some good push anywhere along the front 4. He might need a year or two to fully develop, but I see him as having huge upside in his career.

Personally, I'm barf city over the thought of the Bengals drafting guys who need to develop at some of these spots.

Full disclosure, I still have PTSD over Matthias Askew & Jason Shirley.

[XenoMorph]

(04-04-2024, 12:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Personally, I'm barf city over the thought of the Bengals drafting guys who need to develop at some of these spots.

Full disclosure, I still have PTSD over Matthias Askew & Jason Shirley.

Jason shirley was a late round pick... who wasnt making it at DT so they tried at OG 

Nothing to get worked up about

[Whatever]

(04-04-2024, 10:45 AM)kalibengal Wrote: As we get closer to draft days , the obvious hole at NT we need to fill has me getting nervous. I keep seeing Sweat being ranked in the 25 to 40 range which puts him out of reach at pick #49. I hope they can swing a trade to get us in that range to grab him....after him its really one other guy : Jackson who is hard to tell about where he may get picked (rounds 3 to 5?) . What happens if they whiff completely in draft? Any potential trade targets or late cuts out there?
I have a bad feeling that one of the AFC N rivals will draft Sweat or Jackson.

Sweat's stock is honestly all over the place.  He's the #56 prospect on average and you see him anywhere from the late 20's to the late 70's with most falling around the 40's and 50's.

The reality is he's tough to get a true ranking on because so much of his value is dependent on how well he can assuage teams about his work ethic issues in private interviews, which isn't public info.  He could go way earlier than expected due to the weak NT class if he can, or he could be one of those annual free fallers that everyone screams we draft as round after round picks past with him still on the board if he can't.

I'm firmly against a trade up, though.  Reader averages 58-60% of the defensive snaps in the games he dressed for the past three years.  Sweat simply won't see the field enough to justify two premium picks being spent to acquire him, especially since given his work ethic and conditioning issues, he may not even be on the field that much.  

As for options, Tupou is still a FA, but I don't know he would be considered as anything more than a rotational piece.  Folks won't like it, but a name I'll throw out there is N'damakahn Suh, who's a free agent.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-04-2024, 12:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Personally, I'm barf city over the thought of the Bengals drafting guys who need to develop at some of these spots.

Full disclosure, I still have PTSD over Matthias Askew & Jason Shirley.

I'm not saying that I don't feel like Smith could be a valuable contributor as a rookie, I'm suggesting that once he finishes growing into that huge, long frame, he might be something really special.

[tms]

The thing about taking a 1T is we need one now. We get distracted by raw talents (I'm 100% guilty of it myself) who can be developed... which is kind of moot for why we're talking about them at all. We need them to contribute asap, if not at the start of the year then certainly by the end. It's not your typical draft and stash scenario and puts us in a dangerous spot. So if we don't land Sweat or Jackson we might as well treat it like any other year because the others will not serve our acute need. For that matter, even Sweat and Jackson will be rookies with a long learning curve ahead of them. The more I think about it the more I realize trying to fill this NT hole via the draft is like an oasis in the desert- it's a mirage. I should hope we have other options!

[Luvnit2]

I see Sweat in many mock drafts in late round 2 and some in round 3.

I would be upset if we considered him in round 1, I think huge reach. I hope we draft BPA at OT, OG, WR, CB or TE (if Bowers fell miraculously) versus a run stopping DT who many scouts are concerned about his weight (360 lbs.) and work ethic.

[Luvnit2]

(04-04-2024, 11:55 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree that Sweat and Jackson look like the prototypical NT you want when facing strong rushing attacks like those in the AFCN.

I'm also willing to bet on Maason Smith growing into that 6'6" frame and really getting some good push anywhere along the front 4. He might need a year or two to fully develop, but I see him as having huge upside in his career.

I like Smith as well. I think he may be undervalued. I doubt he makes it out of round 2, I predict Sweat goes in round 3, but we may have to trade up to get him.

[Stewy]

(04-04-2024, 12:38 PM)Whatever Wrote: Sweat's stock is honestly all over the place.  He's the #56 prospect on average and you see him anywhere from the late 20's to the late 70's with most falling around the 40's and 50's.

The reality is he's tough to get a true ranking on because so much of his value is dependent on how well he can assuage teams about his work ethic issues in private interviews, which isn't public info.  He could go way earlier than expected due to the weak NT class if he can, or he could be one of those annual free fallers that everyone screams we draft as round after round picks past with him still on the board if he can't.

I'm firmly against a trade up, though.  Reader averages 58-60% of the defensive snaps in the games he dressed for the past three years.  Sweat simply won't see the field enough to justify two premium picks being spent to acquire him, especially since given his work ethic and conditioning issues, he may not even be on the field that much.  

As for options, Tupou is still a FA, but I don't know he would be considered as anything more than a rotational piece.  Folks won't like it, but a name I'll throw out there is N'damakahn Suh, who's a free agent.

These have always been the knocks on Sweat even in college.  Conditioning and focus.  Yet on the field, he performs and performs big.  

Below is not specifically in response to Whatever:
Also I don't see ANY reports of him at 400lbs.  His latest weight is from the combine at 366. which apparently lead to his 5.27 40 yards dash being impressive.  Also, all reports from his pro day is that he impressed in position and agility drills.  Again, everything I've read since the combine have been positive and he's still considered a late 1st early 2nd round pick.

[JoeyB2023]

(04-04-2024, 10:45 AM)kalibengal Wrote: As we get closer to draft days , the obvious hole at NT we need to fill has me getting nervous. I keep seeing Sweat being ranked in the 25 to 40 range which puts him out of reach at pick #49. I hope they can swing a trade to get us in that range to grab him....after him its really one other guy : Jackson who is hard to tell about where he may get picked (rounds 3 to 5?) . What happens if they whiff completely in draft? Any potential trade targets or late cuts out there?
I have a bad feeling that one of the AFC N rivals will draft Sweat or Jackson.

I think a veteran corner or NT is signed after the draft depending on how it falls. And I think it all depends on round 2/3. If the miss on sweat or jackson and instead go TJ Tampa in 2. Then I wouldn’t be surprised by night fal Teair Tart is signed or vice versa they nab sweat then howard gets signed but honestly I think a veteran corner should be signed regardless. They gotta get one of 2. But everybody also knows that too. See Billy price

[JoeyB2023]

(04-04-2024, 12:25 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Personally, I'm barf city over the thought of the Bengals drafting guys who need to develop at some of these spots.

Full disclosure, I still have PTSD over Matthias Askew & Jason Shirley.

100000% this as well!

[JoeyB2023]

(04-04-2024, 01:41 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I like Smith as well. I think he may be undervalued. I doubt he makes it out of round 2, I predict Sweat goes in round 3, but we may have to trade up to get him.

Sweat was a 3rd rounder until the senior bowl. He will
Not make it out of round 2. It one thing to be a big nose that can move but he is on a whole other level of size and the way he can move is special. May be one trick pony but the same was thought of reader and he still had a rush ability to him. As does sweat. He ain’t seeing the third brother. Wish tho.

[Whatever]

(04-04-2024, 01:55 PM)Stewy Wrote: These have always been the knocks on Sweat even in college.  Conditioning and focus.  Yet on the field, he performs and performs big.  

Below is not specifically in response to Whatever:
Also I don't see ANY reports of him at 400lbs.  His latest weight is from the combine at 366. which apparently lead to his 5.27 40 yards dash being impressive.  Also, all reports from his pro day is that he impressed in position and agility drills.  Again, everything I've read since the combine have been positive and he's still considered a late 1st early 2nd round pick.

Murphy actually lined up at NT for the Longhorns more than Sweat did.  How will his conditioning hold up when constantly faced with double teams from NFL?  He was already on the sidelines blown up in the 4th quarter of the Washington game.  Work ethic is a trait that is highly valued under Taylor, and Sweat ain't it.

I haven't seen anything regarding 400 pounds.  Reports were he looked 380-390 at the Senior Bowl, but he refused to weigh in(surprise, surprise), so nobody actually knows.

Impressive to whom?  He was the slowest DT in the 40 at the Combine, 3rd worst in the 10 Yard Split, 3rd worst Vertical, dead last Broad Jump, and didn't do the Bench,  3 cone, or 20 yard shuttle.  Impressive for a 360 pound man, maybe.  Still terrible for an NFL DT.  He has a 3.90 RAS.  He's a poor athlete, by NFL standards.  He's just big.  

[JoeyB2023]

(04-04-2024, 03:12 PM)Whatever Wrote: Murphy actually lined up at NT for the Longhorns more than Sweat did.  How will his conditioning hold up when constantly faced with double teams from NFL?  He was already on the sidelines blown up in the 4th quarter of the Washington game.  Work ethic is a trait that is highly valued under Taylor, and Sweat ain't it.

I haven't seen anything regarding 400 pounds.  Reports were he looked 380-390 at the Senior Bowl, but he refused to weigh in(surprise, surprise), so nobody actually knows.

Impressive to whom?  He was the slowest DT in the 40 at the Combine, 3rd worst in the 10 Yard Split, 3rd worst Vertical, dead last Broad Jump, and didn't do the Bench,  3 cone, or 20 yard shuttle.  Impressive for a 360 pound man, maybe.  Still terrible for an NFL DT.  He has a 3.90 RAS.  He's a poor athlete, by NFL standards.  He's just big.  

U highlighting his combine performance/numbers mean nothing to me and shouldn’t to anyone else and a lot of the times the combine actually hurts teams. Cuz the throw tape out the window. Burficts numbers were awful to but the guy was a stud. Ross blew the doors off the combine we took him 9th and he was a bust. F*** the numbers at the combine. Watch the damn tape. Talk to coaches. Talk to player that’s it imo. Go to pro day maybe to confirm things u already thought u knew. That’s it.