Welcome Kris Jenkins

[Whatever]

(05-01-2024, 12:40 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I believe Jenkins, Jackson, All, & Newton were all captains in college.

Burton is the outlier, character-wise, but Housh & Battle have intel on the guy.

Jackson has a felony drug arrest and suspension.  He's not exactly high character, either.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-01-2024, 12:44 PM)Whatever Wrote: Jackson has a felony drug arrest and suspension.  He's not exactly high character, either.

True, a couple years back, but this is true. Kris Jenkins is high character, not McKinnley until he proves otherwise. Sweat is a dumbass
though too and was taken way early for what he did on Draft month IMO.

[CJD]

I've sat on this pick for a few days now and it's still nagging at me. I hear he is a good value at the pick by draft evaluators...

But I don't really see the point in a 295 lb 3T who isn't an elite penetrating pass rusher, but maybe Jenkins will prove me wrong.

I think we should have traded up for Newton, but I get that Duke hates giving away picks.

I'm really excited to be proven wrong and his run stopping ability holds up in the NFL despite him being undersized and he develops into a great pass rusher, but I think there were probably better players available at 49.

[Bengal Dude]

(05-02-2024, 12:21 AM)CJD Wrote: I've sat on this pick for a few days now and it's still nagging at me. I hear he is a good value at the pick by draft evaluators...

But I don't really see the point in a 295 lb 3T who isn't an elite penetrating pass rusher, but maybe Jenkins will prove me wrong.

I think we should have traded up for Newton, but I get that Duke hates giving away picks.

I'm really excited to be proven wrong and his run stopping ability holds up in the NFL despite him being undersized and he develops into a great pass rusher, but I think there were probably better players available at 49.

From some of the things that came out, it sounded like the Bengals were content to sit at 49 and hope that Newton would fall to them. I was listening to Mike Potts on multiple podcasts and Hoard mentioned that the Falcons were interested in trading up to 18 if Laiatu Latu fell to 18. We would've gone all the way back to 35, but we would've gotten their 2025 1st round pick. I have to believe Newton would've been the pick for us at 35 had all of this happened.

[NATI BENGALS]

(05-02-2024, 12:21 AM)CJD Wrote: I've sat on this pick for a few days now and it's still nagging at me. I hear he is a good value at the pick by draft evaluators...

But I don't really see the point in a 295 lb 3T who isn't an elite penetrating pass rusher, but maybe Jenkins will prove me wrong.

I think we should have traded up for Newton, but I get that Duke hates giving away picks.

I'm really excited to be proven wrong and his run stopping ability holds up in the NFL despite him being undersized and he develops into a great pass rusher, but I think there were probably better players available at 49.

I guess 4 years ago he was a 240lbs freshman DE.

I don't think he is a finished product. But he showed he could turn in to a National Championship caliber DT who excels as a run stopper. The nice thing, and what made him worth the second rounder to me, is the unique big man athletic skills. I don't know how often he got to "pin his ears back" in the scheme he was in.

Been around football his whole life, son of a NFL Pro Bowler, 3 star recruit, changed positions, gained 60lbs, team captain, won the natty, turned into The Mutant 6'3" 305, and is willing to do whatever you ask of him on the football field. DT was high on the priority list. Man you are picky.

[CJD]

(05-02-2024, 02:04 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I guess 4 years ago he was a 240lbs freshman DE.

I don't think he is a finished product. But he showed he could turn in to a National Championship caliber DT who excels as a run stopper. The nice thing, and what made him worth the second rounder to me, is the unique big man athletic skills. I don't know how often he got to "pin his ears back" in the scheme he was in.

Been around football his whole life, son of a NFL Pro Bowler, 3 star recruit, changed positions, gained 60lbs, team captain, won the natty, turned into The Mutant 6'3" 305, and is willing to do whatever you ask of him on the football field. DT was high on the priority list. Man you are picky.

Maybe I'd feel better if there was a similar player in the NFL that is successful? Like, are there are any 300 lb DTs that aren't great pass rushers that are pro bowlers?

I'm going down the list of elite DTs that are around 300 lbs (or less in some cases) and all of them were elite pass rushers in college:
Quinnen Williams
Johnathan Allen
DeForest Buckner
Javon Hargrave
Fletcher Cox
Geno Atkins

All of the above had at least 1 7.5 sack season in college.

Even Ed Oliver, who didn't put up big sack numbers (13.5 in 3 seasons) in college had 53 TFL in 3 seasons, so he still showed his prowess as a penetrating 3T, even if it didn't result in as many sacks. 

Maybe Kobie Turner would be a good comp for him? Kobie only had 2 sacks in his final year of college after transferring, which is similar to Jenkins' 2.5 sacks. But even Kobie had 10 TFL in his final year of college, whereas Jenkins has never exceeded 4.5 TFL in a single season. 

I don't have all the advanced statistics on every DT that came out of college, so maybe some of these guys had a sub 10% pass rush win rate like Jenkins as well but, looking at just production stats (sacks, TFL), I am not finding a player who was not a good pass rusher in college, was 300 lbs or less, and then came to the NFL and became an elite DT.

[sandwedge]

(05-02-2024, 12:21 AM)CJD Wrote: I've sat on this pick for a few days now and it's still nagging at me. I hear he is a good value at the pick by draft evaluators...

But I don't really see the point in a 295 lb 3T who isn't an elite penetrating pass rusher, but maybe Jenkins will prove me wrong.

I think we should have traded up for Newton, but I get that Duke hates giving away picks.

I'm really excited to be proven wrong and his run stopping ability holds up in the NFL despite him being undersized and he develops into a great pass rusher, but I think there were probably better players available at 49.

You know we sucked at stopping the run last season? Jenkins is great at stopping the run. He is also up to 305 now from what I have read. 

[CJD]

(05-02-2024, 11:14 AM)sandwedge Wrote: You know we sucked at stopping the run last season? Jenkins is great at stopping the run. He is also up to 305 now from what I have read. 

Which, if it holds up in the NFL, would be great. But then is he going to play NT? Or is he just a 1 gap run stopping 3T? How many downs do you get out of a 1 gap run stopper? Or will he be a 2 gap run stopper? Is he tall enough to do that? Can he handle double teams?

If we only drafted him to be a run stopper at 305 lbs, that raises more questions, specifically why would we spend a 2nd round pick on that role?

[sandwedge]

You raise good points, but the answer is we don't know the plan on how they are going to involve him. My understanding is that he is quick enough to have the ability to put pressure up the middle. Jackson, I see as more the 1 gap player. Did any of those other DTs you listed have a 17.5 sack season in the NFL? I don't think Geno did?

[CJD]

(05-02-2024, 11:30 AM)sandwedge Wrote: You raise good points, but the answer is we don't know the plan on how they are going to involve him. My understanding is that he is quick enough to have the ability to put pressure up the middle. Jackson, I see as more the 1 gap player. Did any of those other DTs you listed have a 17.5 sack season in the NFL? I don't think Geno did?

Sorry, I said each of them had at least one 7.5 sack season in college, not a 17.5 sack season.

But yes, all of those players have had at least one 8 sack season in the NFL as well. Most have had multiple.

[CJD]

(05-02-2024, 12:56 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: From some of the things that came out, it sounded like the Bengals were content to sit at 49 and hope that Newton would fall to them. I was listening to Mike Potts on multiple podcasts and Hoard mentioned that the Falcons were interested in trading up to 18 if Laiatu Latu fell to 18. We would've gone all the way back to 35, but we would've gotten their 2025 1st round pick. I have to believe Newton would've been the pick for us at 35 had all of this happened.

Not gonna lie, that trade back would have been awesome for us. We could have gotten Newton + Suamataia and an extra first in our back pocket.

[sandwedge]

(05-02-2024, 11:42 AM)CJD Wrote: Sorry, I said each of them had at least one 7.5 sack season in college, not a 17.5 sack season.

But yes, all of those players have had at least one 8 sack season in the NFL as well. Most have had multiple.

Ok that makes more sense. I still like the pick and he hasn't played yet, so lets give him a chance. According to Potts, they were getting trade offers at all of their picks, but they were not getting enough in exchange. They still got a player that was high on their board at their position.

[CJD]

(05-02-2024, 11:54 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Ok that makes more sense. I still like the pick and he hasn't played yet, so lets give him a chance. According to Potts, they were getting trade offers at all of their picks, but they were not getting enough in exchange. They still got a player that was high on their board at their position.

Yea, that's kind of where I'm at with the pick. He's on the team now, let's hope he does well. I am hopeful I am just not understanding how good of a player he is or something. 

I remind myself that pass rush production in college isn't necessarily an indicator of success in the NFL. After all, Zach Carter had 17 sacks and 25 TFL in 3 years in college and he's basically worthless in the NFL.

I'm just blocking out the fact that both of these players were drafted by the same evaluators XD.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-02-2024, 11:21 AM)CJD Wrote: Which, if it holds up in the NFL, would be great. But then is he going to play NT? Or is he just a 1 gap run stopping 3T? How many downs do you get out of a 1 gap run stopper? Or will he be a 2 gap run stopper? Is he tall enough to do that? Can he handle double teams?

If we only drafted him to be a run stopper at 305 lbs, that raises more questions, specifically why would we spend a 2nd round pick on that role?

Drafting a guy like Jenkins who was the second best run stopping DT in the Draft is just exactly what this team needed honestly.

He pretty much just does what a team asks of him, and he CAN rush the passer when asked. What is crazy about him and why he is 
called The Mutant is how he can gain and lose weight to adapt to what the team needs. Expecting the coaches to ask him to gain some
weight so he can take up double teams which he clearly can do and be a Nose Tackle early on.

McKinnley Jackson had some off the field problems, so I actually find Kris Jenkins to be the insurance in case something like this ever
comes up again even if I doubt it will unlike a guy like Sweat. Anybody that drinks and drives on the month of the Draft I will put nothing
past. We needed a Nose Tackle and we got 2 out of the Draft and one in Jenkins who can play everything from End to Nose Tackle 
depending on what the team needs. Special player honestly with very high character and a great bloodline.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-02-2024, 12:56 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: From some of the things that came out, it sounded like the Bengals were content to sit at 49 and hope that Newton would fall to them. I was listening to Mike Potts on multiple podcasts and Hoard mentioned that the Falcons were interested in trading up to 18 if Laiatu Latu fell to 18. We would've gone all the way back to 35, but we would've gotten their 2025 1st round pick. I have to believe Newton would've been the pick for us at 35 had all of this happened.

Newton was high on my wish list, but I'm content with how things played out.  Had the Falcons traded up to #18, the Bengals would have missed out on all of the premium OTs this year. I know that many are counting on Trent Brown staying healthy and having a monster season, but I'm glad that we'll have Mims backing him up, just in case.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-02-2024, 01:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Newton was high on my wish list, but I'm content with how things played out.  Had the Falcons traded up to #18, the Bengals would have missed out on all of the premium OTs this year. I know that many are counting on Trent Brown staying healthy and having a monster season, but I'm glad that we'll have Mims backing him up, just in case.

Oh yeah, give me Amarius Mims and the DT's that we got over Johnny Newton and I would of loved to have drafted Newton.

But not at the expense of losing out on a talent like Mims that could very well play very good at RT if/when Trent Brown gets injured.

[CJD]

(05-02-2024, 01:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Drafting a guy like Jenkins who was the second best run stopping DT in the Draft is just exactly what this team needed honestly.

He pretty much just does what a team asks of him, and he CAN rush the passer when asked. What is crazy about him and why he is 
called The Mutant is how he can gain and lose weight to adapt to what the team needs. Expecting the coaches to ask him to gain some
weight so he can take up double teams which he clearly can do and be a Nose Tackle early on.

McKinnley Jackson had some off the field problems, so I actually find Kris Jenkins to be the insurance in case something like this ever
comes up again even if I doubt it will unlike a guy like Sweat. Anybody that drinks and drives on the month of the Draft I will put nothing
past. We needed a Nose Tackle and we got 2 out of the Draft and one in Jenkins who can play everything from End to Nose Tackle 
depending on what the team needs. Special player honestly with very high character and a great bloodline.

I'm not sure how much more weight he can fit on his frame. Dane Brugler wrote in The Beast, "Not very broad and lacks ideal length (likely maxed out right around 300 pounds)."

I'd also be surprised if they wanted to spend a 2nd round pick on a player who they intend to play at NT who has never really played NT and is not the correct size for a NT.

My belief is they drafted him with the belief that he has some untapped athletic potential to be a dominant pass rusher. In his best case scenario, he's a DT who is elite at rushing the passer (if they can teach him how to rush the passer) and elite at stopping the run and, at his worst, he's a single gap run stopper who plays 1 or maybe 2 downs.

I think the fact that his perceived worst case scenario is still a useful player is why he was drafted so high.

I just wish there was even 1 example of a player in the NFL today who was not a good pass rusher in college who went on to be a good pass rusher in the NFL (and maybe there is. I just can't think of them.)

[casear2727]

(05-02-2024, 11:21 AM)CJD Wrote: Which, if it holds up in the NFL, would be great. But then is he going to play NT? Or is he just a 1 gap run stopping 3T? How many downs do you get out of a 1 gap run stopper? Or will he be a 2 gap run stopper? Is he tall enough to do that? Can he handle double teams?

If we only drafted him to be a run stopper at 305 lbs, that raises more questions, specifically why would we spend a 2nd round pick on that role?

You know Aaron Donald has never weighed 290 right?   He is a mutant for sure, but Jenkins led all others in rush defense win rate and other advanced stats.  We needed to address stopping the run more than pass rush this draft as we were ran all over last season, and Rankins was signed for pass rush. I seriously doubt they drafted him to be the primary NT.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-02-2024, 01:59 PM)CJD Wrote: I'm not sure how much more weight he can fit on his frame. Dane Brugler wrote in The Beast, "Not very broad and lacks ideal length (likely maxed out right around 300 pounds)."

I'd also be surprised if they wanted to spend a 2nd round pick on a player who they intend to play at NT who has never really played NT and is not the correct size for a NT.

My belief is they drafted him with the belief that he has some untapped athletic potential to be a dominant pass rusher. In his best case scenario, he's a DT who is elite at rushing the passer (if they can teach him how to rush the passer) and elite at stopping the run and, at his worst, he's a single gap run stopper who plays 1 or maybe 2 downs.

I think the fact that his perceived worst case scenario is still a useful player is why he was drafted so high.

I just wish there was even 1 example of a player in the NFL today who was not a good pass rusher in college who went on to be a good pass rusher in the NFL (and maybe there is. I just can't think of them.)

Well Kris Jenkins is really strong as we see from him doing that Turkish get-up, maybe he can be a very good pass rusher...

We all know Geno Atkins won with his strength, yah never know. All I know is Kris Jenkins said in his interview, he will do whatever the 
coaches want him to do to become the player they need. Whether it was playing End, a pass rushing 3-tech or eat a lot of chili and play NT.

This is just what he said. I need to watch more film on his pass rush to judge this part of his game honestly. I know he is a great run stopper
and that is what we needed more than anything.

[CJD]

(05-02-2024, 02:20 PM)casear2727 Wrote: You know Aaron Donald has never weighed 290 right?   He is a mutant for sure, but Jenkins led all others in rush defense win rate and other advanced stats.  We needed to address stopping the run more than pass rush this draft as we were ran all over last season, and Rankins was signed for pass rush.  I seriously doubt they drafted him to be the primary NT.

Aaron Donald was a pass rusher. In college and the NFL. He had 63 TFL and 27.5 sacks in his last 3 years in college.

Kris Jenkins has 8.5 TFL, 4.5 sacks in 3 years.

If Kris Jenkins had Donald's pass rushing profile, I would not be worried at all.

But he doesn't. Not even close.