Lamar Might be Better Than Burrow

[jj22]

I wouldn't put Cardinals in that category. He's been very good against the Bills who allows him to play his brand of Offense.

49ers we saw the Offense we had hoped they'd stick with but they couldn't. Because Burrow "doesn't like" playing under center, "doesn't like" turning his back to defenses in playaction.

He can go empty against the Bills. That defense allows him to play within his limitations. That game was a lot different then the 49ers game (even though it was a dominant win), and that game plan gets stopped more often then not. Which is the issue.

[Brownshoe]

My wife who hates football was able to predict if we were running or passing yesterday. We passed out of shotgun 90% of the time and we ran from under center 90% of the time. If that's because of Zacs brilliant scheme then he needs to be fired or relieved of his playcalling duties. If it's a limitation of Burrow then he needs to practice throwing under center way more to get more comfortable. Either way both are on the coach. One more than the other obviously.

[jj22]

(09-09-2024, 11:02 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: My wife who hates football was able to predict if we were running or passing yesterday. We passed out of shotgun 90% of the time and we ran from under center 90% of the time. If that's because of Zacs brilliant scheme then he needs to be fired or relieved of his playcalling duties. If it's a limitation of Burrow then he needs to practice throwing under center way more to get more comfortable. Either way both are on the coach. One more than the other obviously.

Coaches have to coach to their QB's players ability...

We all knew Burrow was an empty set QB coming in... They created the offense specifically for his "strength". 

Coaches can't put players in position to fail. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-09-2024, 10:42 AM)jj22 Wrote: Yes there is. Hell people act like the Offense is stale and vanilla, but it was much better and showed much more promise under Browning..... Browning! 

Burrows limitations are being exposed as the years go on. 

You can't blame coaches when we all saw how different the offense was with a QB who can do more.

You do realize that Joe couldn't move for much of the season due to his calf which limited his effectiveness, right? Compare the games where Burrow was actually mobile to Browning and I doubt you'd say the offense looked better under Browning.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Burrow is the better player but for yesterday against the Pats we probably win if we have Lamarr as opposed to Burrow

[Soonerpeace]

(09-08-2024, 11:09 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Lamar beat KC in a shootout in the regular season not too long ago.

1-6 is 1-6 & 3-1 is 3-1 End of discussion. If you want to say Joe’s injuries have altered him some then there’s a discussion.

[Brownshoe]

(09-09-2024, 11:35 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: 1-6 is 1-6 & 3-1 is 3-1 End of discussion. If you want to say Joe’s injuries have altered him some then there’s a discussion.

What is Taylor's record vs Lamar? Its pretty bad 

[jj22]

(09-09-2024, 11:29 AM)PhilHos Wrote: You do realize that Joe couldn't move for much of the season due to his calf which limited his effectiveness, right? Compare the games where Burrow was actually mobile to Browning and I doubt you'd say the offense looked better under Browning.

We still see a vanilla offense with a health Burrow. it's why we always complain about the lack of under center play, playaction etc?

[Soonerpeace]

(09-09-2024, 11:04 AM)jj22 Wrote: Coaches have to coach to their QB's players ability...

We all knew Burrow was an empty set QB coming in... They created the offense specifically for his "strength". 

Coaches can't put players in position to fail. 

Everybody wants to blame the coaches. 10 points is 10 points. The offense was anemic. The turnovers lost the game but say Hudson scores and Jones doesn’t fumble. The offense is still piss poor. Watching teams all day run the ball. Mixon looked tough. 159 yards ? Until we can run effectively we won’t beat these defenses. They think pass all the time. But yesterday was poor by the coaches, Joey B, & turnovers.

[*Nately120*]

Dalton was 2-11 with ZT as his HC and Burrow either ends up on the IR or drags him to the AFC Championship game or the SB. I feel like we are picking on the wrong weak link here, but I digress.

[Brownshoe]

(09-09-2024, 11:42 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Everybody wants to blame the coaches. 10 points is 10 points. The offense was anemic. The turnovers lost the game but say Hudson scores and Jones doesn’t fumble. The offense is still piss poor. Watching teams all day run the ball. Mixon looked tough. 159 yards ? Until we can run effectively we won’t beat these defenses. They think pass all the time. But yesterday was poor by the coaches, Joey B, & turnovers.

Offense is anemic because the coaches scheme us to always throw the ball in shotgun and always run under center. We need a better scheme. How TF can't we figure out how to beat cover 2. How long are we going to blame everyone but Taylor? Taylor doesn't know how to scheme for Burrow apparently. You need to find either someone who can scheme for Burrow or you need to find a QB that Taylor can scheme around. You can't have both.

[jj22]

(09-09-2024, 11:45 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Dalton was 2-11 with ZT as his HC and Burrow either ends up on the IR or drags him to the AFC Championship game or the SB.  I feel like we are picking on the wrong weak link here, but I digress.

Well we will see where year 9 leads Burrow (if he can make it that long), but I'm certainly not talking about 2019 Dalton. 

I think it's pretty clear Burrow is limited. Just not something discussed around here much. Well the vanilla offense is and the lack of under center, play action etc is. But the coaches get the blame even though it's been said Burrow hates to turn his back to defenses in play action, and prefers shotgun and empty.

That IS exactly what you'd call a system QB. 

Besides the Defense dragged Zac to the AFCC and SB. Tough conversation to have as it's been brought up before and still is an unpopular opinion, but Burrow has been... not sure about average in those runs, but certainly pretty safe and limited. 

[Ell Prez]

Lamaar is probably who most Gm would take. His ability to run and move in the pocket is a huge factor.

I think Burrow’s health and disappearance in certain games is a huge talking point. One thing that isn’t: his contract. It’s the going rate for QB’s in this league. Prescott, Jackson, Mahomes, love, Tua, Herbert, Lawrence, hurts, Goff. All are paid around the same 50+M. Allen, Watson, Muray all 40+M who signed before the 50M QBs.

It is what it is. We payed a little more because of the timing of the contract. If you want a second contract qb, you’re paying a big price tag.

[*Nately120*]

(09-09-2024, 11:50 AM)jj22 Wrote: Well we will see where year 9 leads Burrow (if he can make it that long), but I'm certainly not talking about 2019 Dalton. 

Well that's the only time we got to see Dalton tied to ZT for the sake of comparison.  I think it says a lot that Dalton's two worst years occurred with ZT as his HC and as the QB of the QB-murdering Chicago Bears (fun fact, they've never had a 4,000 yard passer and their TD record is from 1995).  So Dalton was better in years 10 and 12 than he was in year 9.

With that being said, I think Burrow has shown he's better at overcoming a bad system.  Dalton and Palmer both had some dud systems, and it looks like Burrow isn't breaking any trends playing in the prime ZT era.


As for Burrow VS Lamar...well, we could have taken Lamar instead of Billy Price and I don't think we would have been complaining seeing how he's performed.

[jj22]

But this "bad system" is Burrow's system.... This isn't McVays system. It's Burrows'.... Created to work around Burrow's strengths (I know that sounds better than calling him limited), but at the end of the day we all admits the system is....... Vanilla, bad, predictable.....

Zac created this system that he gets slammed for, for Burrow.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-09-2024, 11:02 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: My wife who hates football was able to predict if we were running or passing yesterday. We passed out of shotgun 90% of the time and we ran from under center 90% of the time. If that's because of Zacs brilliant scheme then he needs to be fired or relieved of his playcalling duties. If it's a limitation of Burrow then he needs to practice throwing under center way more to get more comfortable. Either way both are on the coach. One more than the other obviously.

This is literally the same thing that happened the past 2 seasons.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-09-2024, 12:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: But this "bad system" is Burrow's system.... This isn't McVays system. It's Burrows'.... Created to work around Burrow's strengths (I know that sounds better than calling him limited), but at the end of the day we all admits the system is....... Vanilla, bad, predictable.....

Zac created this system that he gets slammed for, for Burrow.

The system doesn't work until Chase and Higgins start scoring 50 yard TD's...then it opens up.

[Soonerpeace]

(09-09-2024, 11:02 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: My wife who hates football was able to predict if we were running or passing yesterday. We passed out of shotgun 90% of the time and we ran from under center 90% of the time. If that's because of Zacs brilliant scheme then he needs to be fired or relieved of his playcalling duties. If it's a limitation of Burrow then he needs to practice throwing under center way more to get more comfortable. Either way both are on the coach. One more than the other obviously.

Yet our yards per point is averaging including ‘23 top 10 from 2021-23.

[KillerGoose]

(09-09-2024, 11:02 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: My wife who hates football was able to predict if we were running or passing yesterday. We passed out of shotgun 90% of the time and we ran from under center 90% of the time. If that's because of Zacs brilliant scheme then he needs to be fired or relieved of his playcalling duties. If it's a limitation of Burrow then he needs to practice throwing under center way more to get more comfortable. Either way both are on the coach. One more than the other obviously.

To be fair, this isn't unique to Cincinnati. From 2018 --> 2023, NFL teams have ran the ball 68% of the time from under center and only 28% from shotgun. Some rounding issues somewhere in there. Cincinnati under Zac Taylor, with Burrow at QB specifically, run the ball 69% of the time under center and 29% of the time from shotgun. That isn't the issue, Cincinnati is bang on with the NFL average in this very specific category. 

[jj22]

(09-09-2024, 12:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The system doesn't work until Chase and Higgins start scoring 50 yard TD's...then it opens up.

And teams realize that and then the "offense" get shut down.

They questions is why? People point to coaches, but what needs to be discussed more is maybe the QB isn't flexible in his ability. 

Burrow has to get it together. He has to evolve as a player (which he hasn't). He is paid like an elite QB, but doesn't have the range (system wise) that even average QB's have. 

We can't blame Zac for not being McVay and not even consider that he isn't able to be because he has to design an offense around his QB's......... "preference".