Jordan Battle

[wildcatnku24]

(Yesterday, 09:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: We need to be talking about how lackluster Geno Stone has been.
Dude is allowing a 113.9 passer rating when targeted.
Dax Hill, who Stone replaced, allowed a 114.8 last year.
Not really any upgrade in that department.
Hill had 9 missed tackles last season. Stone has 3 missed tackles in 4 games. On pace for more missed tackles than Hill had.
Stone has just 1 PD this season. Hill had 11 last year.

I've not really seen any improvement at FS going from Hill to Stone.
But maybe I'm not watching that spot close enough to spot the differences?

I think the biggest reason for a lot of the db issues is our front not only not getting home, but not even getting close.  NFL WR's are smart enough to adjust routes based on db's and if the qb knows he'll have 4 seconds minimum to watch, they'll succeed.

Not 100% meaning to defend our db's, but I do think that's part of what's happening.  

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 09:59 AM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: I think the biggest reason for a lot of the db issues is our front not only not getting home, but not even getting close.  NFL WR's are smart enough to adjust routes based on db's and if the qb knows he'll have 4 seconds minimum to watch, they'll succeed.

Not 100% meaning to defend our db's, but I do think that's part of what's happening.  

I'm sure that's part of it, but Stone doesn't look like a center fielder FS that this defense had when Bates was a Bengal.
This defense needs a guy like that, and I don't see Stone's speed and athleticism being able to do it.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 09:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: We need to be talking about how lackluster Geno Stone has been.
Dude is allowing a 113.9 passer rating when targeted.
Dax Hill, who Stone replaced, allowed a 114.8 last year.
Not really any upgrade in that department.
Hill had 9 missed tackles last season. Stone has 3 missed tackles in 4 games. On pace for more missed tackles than Hill had.
Stone has just 1 PD this season. Hill had 11 last year.

I've not really seen any improvement at FS going from Hill to Stone.
But maybe I'm not watching that spot close enough to spot the differences?

Who was covering Kelce in that game?

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 01:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Who was covering Kelce in that game?

If you're genuinely asking me, I don't know.
I can't remember who covered who specifically.

What I do remember are multiple plays where defenders are getting past the CB and Stone is too slow getting over to help cover, resulting in some big plays.
I remember this happening against both the Commanders and Panthers.

Stone might be able to cover the bigger, slower TEs, but he seems to struggle with fast guys downfield.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 03:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If you're genuinely asking me, I don't know.
I can't remember who covered who specifically.

What I do remember are multiple plays where defenders are getting past the CB and Stone is too slow getting over to help cover, resulting in some big plays.
I remember this happening against both the Commanders and Panthers.

Stone might be able to cover the bigger, slower TEs, but he seems to struggle with fast guys downfield.

Pretty sure Geno Stone was covering Kelce a good amount and pretty much shut him down along with Hilton, Logan, Pratt and ADG.

I have seen Vonn Bell get beat the most this season in coverage.

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 03:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pretty sure Geno Stone was covering Kelce a good amount and pretty much shut him down along with Hilton, Logan, Pratt and ADG.

I have seen Vonn Bell get beat the most this season in coverage.

Vonn Bell is not the center fielder FS though, that's supposed to be Stone.
Bell is quintessential SS, and an older one at that.

I know the price differential between Stone and Bates is giant ($7 mill APY vs $16 mill APY), but so is the coverage ability, IMO.

It's great if Stone can cover a TE, but I want him to be a ball hawking guy who can roam the entirety of the backfield and help not allow WRs to blow past coverage deep.
That's what I view as what makes a good FS.
Maybe that's more to McLaurin's and Johnson's ability though, but I know Bates would have been better covering those things compared to what I see from Stone.

EDIT - Because you said "Pretty sure Geno Stone was covering Kelce a good amount and pretty much shut him down," I looked back at 2023. In the KC game last year, Kelce only had 3 rec for 16 yards. So he was covered pretty well when Stone wasn't here as well. I don't think it's something Stone specifically was able to do compared to the previous FS.

[Sled21]

(Yesterday, 03:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Pretty sure Geno Stone was covering Kelce a good amount and pretty much shut him down along with Hilton, Logan, Pratt and ADG.

I have seen Vonn Bell get beat the most this season in coverage.

Kelce has a bad case of the drips from Swift, and is going through an emotional time since their contract is up and she's not longer going to his games. 

[HarleyDog]

(Today, 08:19 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Kelce has a bad case of the drips from Swift, and is going through an emotional time since their contract is up and she's not longer going to his games. 

Kelce has a bad case of the drips? I knew something was wrong with her.

[*jason*]

(Yesterday, 04:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Vonn Bell is not the center fielder FS though, that's supposed to be Stone.
Bell is quintessential SS, and an older one at that.

I know the price differential between Stone and Bates is giant ($7 mill APY vs $16 mill APY), but so is the coverage ability, IMO.

It's great if Stone can cover a TE, but I want him to be a ball hawking guy who can roam the entirety of the backfield and help not allow WRs to blow past coverage deep.
That's what I view as what makes a good FS.
Maybe that's more to McLaurin's and Johnson's ability though, but I know Bates would have been better covering those things compared to what I see from Stone.

EDIT - Because you said "Pretty sure Geno Stone was covering Kelce a good amount and pretty much shut him down," I looked black at 2023. In the KC game last year, Kelce only had 3 rec for 16 yards. So he was covered pretty well when Stone wasn't here as well. I don't think it's something Stone specifically was able to do compared to the previous FS.

Kelce was targeted 3 times in week 2. He had 1 catch for 5 yards, and a PI call against us on another. I'd say Andy Reid and Mahomes shit him down more than Dexter Jackson... I mean Geno Stone did.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 04:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Vonn Bell is not the center fielder FS though, that's supposed to be Stone.
Bell is quintessential SS, and an older one at that.

I know the price differential between Stone and Bates is giant ($7 mill APY vs $16 mill APY), but so is the coverage ability, IMO.

It's great if Stone can cover a TE, but I want him to be a ball hawking guy who can roam the entirety of the backfield and help not allow WRs to blow past coverage deep.
That's what I view as what makes a good FS.
Maybe that's more to McLaurin's and Johnson's ability though, but I know Bates would have been better covering those things compared to what I see from Stone.

EDIT - Because you said "Pretty sure Geno Stone was covering Kelce a good amount and pretty much shut him down," I looked back at 2023. In the KC game last year, Kelce only had 3 rec for 16 yards. So he was covered pretty well when Stone wasn't here as well. I don't think it's something Stone specifically was able to do compared to the previous FS.

Fair enough, cannot argue with any of this Ochocincos.

(Today, 08:19 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Kelce has a bad case of the drips from Swift, and is going through an emotional time since their contract is up and she's not longer going to his games. 

New it would catch up with him eventually.

(11 hours ago)HarleyDog Wrote: Kelce has a bad case of the drips? I knew something was wrong with her.

(6 hours ago)jason Wrote: Kelce was targeted 3 times in week 2. He had 1 catch for 5 yards, and a PI call against us on another. I'd say Andy Reid and Mahomes shit him down more than Dexter Jackson... I mean Geno Stone did.

Could be correct. Hoping Stone gets back to his ballhawk ways of last season with the Ravens soon though.