My cut and add FA mock

[pulses]

(02-11-2025, 10:50 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's the thing with younger players, you don't know if his presence will enhance their development or delay it for them, from attempting to emulate his style of play. No matter what, this DL needs a long time veteran anchoring the locker room, bringing in a younger talent like Williams would be great and inspirational for all, but you still need that calming voice to convince the younger guys to stay in their lane until the time is right.

Well if BJ Hill would come back on a short 2 year deal that might be the vet they would need. Or another vet on the cheap.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-11-2025, 11:12 PM)pulses Wrote: Well if BJ Hill would come back on a short 2 year deal that might be the vet they would need. Or another vet on the cheap.

Honestly, I'd be thrilled if the team brought BJ Hill back for two years. It would allow him to potentially finish his career here and continue to lead the young guys drafted this past year. He's an all out effort kind of player, rarely ever see him gassed or taking plays off, a perfect example of how to play as a professional.

[pulses]

(02-10-2025, 03:36 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We have 44 million in cap space without a Burrow restructure. I propose we cut Rankins (+9 million to cap), Cappa (+8.5 million to cap) Hubbard (+8.5 million to cap), Stone (+5 million) and Moss (4 million) = new cap 2025 of 83 million

Rankins target Milton Williams DT Eagles - 3 years 36 million (8 million cap hit year 1)
Sign Tee Higgins - 4 years 100 million, 52 guaranteed and cap hit year 1 of 14 million
Extend Chase - 5 years 170 million with 120 million guaranteed (Cap hit year 1 of 26 million or + 5 million in 2025)EDITED FROM OP
Extend Trey - 3 years 77 million and 50 million guaranteed- year 1 additional 7 million
Sign Gesicki for 3 years 15 million with 7 million guaranteed - year 1 3.5 million hit
Sign BJ Hill - 2 years 17 million with 9 million guaranteed - cap hit of 8 million 2025
Cappa - Target Becton - 4 years 50 million with 26 guaranteed - cap hit 8 million 2025
Safety - Target Reid - 4 years 80 million 50 guaranteed - cap hit 13 million year 1

64.5 million spent of 83 million - Does not include Joe B. Restructure, but would need FO to kick some cap to 2026 to 2029

Use Draft
Jackson - LG
Walker/Burch - Hubbard
Henderson for Moss

Here is my draft with no trades.

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/user-mock-drafts/2025/user-mock-5613232

17 Jalon WalkerEDGE | Georgia

49Donovan JacksonIOL | Ohio State

81 TreVeyon HendersonRB | Ohio State

118 Jordan BurchDL | Oregon

154Lander BartonLB | Utah

195 Hollin PierceOT | Rutgers

Adam Butler DT from the Raiders would be a good cheap alternative he's 30 but had 5 sacks each of the last 2 seasons and was just making 1.8 million last year.

[J24]

(02-11-2025, 09:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, Williams had a great season and really nice Superbowl game. However, many people think that you can just take a guy and insert him on any team and expect the same results. What people seem to forget is that Philly's front four operated as a well oiled machine all season because they were assembled of different parts with specific roles. You can't just "insert" a Milton Williams into any DL and expect the same results, you have to provide him with a no-fooling run stuffer next to him, in order for him to be free wheeling and out for QB sacks/pressures.

I like our 2 young DTs, I wonder if a guy like Williams would enhance their development by being an aggressive force that allows them to focus on their primary assignments, or a detriment because they would neglect their primary duties and try to emulate his style? 

Both Jenkins and Jackson were drafted  for their run stuffing ability. Gaining a guy that can rush the passer like Williams did this past season should complement both players and not effect their roles in the defense. In fact, I would argue that the Bengals should sign one more pass rushing DT and draft another along with the signing of Williams.

Also, Williams was the 10th ranked run defender amongst DTs 2022 and 15th in 2023. He was poor this past season at run defense but he has shown that he can defend the run at a high level in the past.

(02-11-2025, 10:50 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's the thing with younger players, you don't know if his presence will enhance their development or delay it for them, from attempting to emulate his style of play. No matter what, this DL needs a long time veteran anchoring the locker room, bringing in a younger talent like Williams would be great and inspirational for all, but you still need that calming voice to convince the younger guys to stay in their lane until the time is right.

Williams just won a Superbowl and went to another in the last three seasons. His stature should bring immediate respect into the DT group.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2025, 03:14 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: I like most of it, so with using your formula of 44 million w/o a restructure of JoeyB, and your cuts of ( Moss, Rankins, Hubbard, Cappa) I actually keep Stone as our Safety room is pretty bare we should have @74 million in cap space. So using your guys and mine I would go:

Yours:

1) Milton Williams- DT 3/36
2) Tee
3) Trey
4) Chase
5) Geisicki
6) Becton-RG  4/50

- I would pass on BJ Hill after signing Milton Williams, and look for a cheaper S than Reid. So with Hill/Reid money @ 20 million I would add:

Mine:

1) Klavion Chaisson- DE/Edge 2/10
2) Khalil Herbert- 2/5
3) Trevon Moerig-S 3/27

- These guys fill holes and are solid adds to the roster in areas of needs to allow us to keep the big 4.

Draft:
1)  Jalon Walker- Edge- Georgia
2) Tate Ratledge- Guard- Georgia
3) Alfred Collins- DT- Texas
4) Terrance Ferguson- TE- Oregon
5) Raheim Sanders - RB- S.Carolina
6) Hunter Wohler- S- Wisconsin

You mention keeping Stone, but with Moehrig added, who starts between the two of them?
IMO Stone makes too much to be a bench guy, and Bengals won't pay Moehrig that much $$ to be a bench guy either.
Unless you're proposing Battle to go back to bench again?

Safety room wouldn't be "bare" btw if Stone is cut and Moehrig added.
Moehrig and Battle as starters.
Wohler would battle with Daijahn Anthony and Tycen Anderson for one of the two backup S positions.
I would argue though that Moehrig doesn't really offer an upgrade to the safety room compared to Stone, at least at $9 mill APY, but maybe I don't know enough about him.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-11-2025, 03:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Just a reminder, I said Bengals FO needs to push cap dollars into the future. I gave 2025 numbers realizing Bengals may use signing bonuses and/or other methods to calculate my projected cap hits. We have 221 million in cap space in 2026, so in 2026 the team can absorb more cap dollars than in 2025.

Right, and I still will stand by the thought that the overall numbers are very low.  I don't see Tee signing a deal for $25 million per and I don't see Williams or Hill with that low of a total number either.

We can make it work, but guys aren't going to take less than the market value.  We already know that.

[Luvnit2]

(02-14-2025, 06:52 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Right, and I still will stand by the thought that the overall numbers are very low.  I don't see Tee signing a deal for $25 million per and I don't see Williams or Hill with that low of a total number either.

We can make it work, but guys aren't going to take less than the market value.  We already know that.

There is a major difference between cap hit and contract dollars. If you factor in guaranteed dollars at signing, the cap number will be a lot less. For example, if Tee signs a deal for 4 years and 120 million, but only 70 million is guaranteed, it is not 30 million each year in cap. Let's say they give him a 30 million bonus for the 120 million with 70 guaranteed, it could look like this:

30 million bonus split as follows towards cap: Year 1 - 5 million Year 2 - 7 million, year 3 - 15 million, year 4 - 3 million

Cap hits and Guarantee
Year 1 - Bonus = 5 million + Salary 12 million = 17 million cap hit all guaranteed
Year 2 - Bonus = 7 million + Salary 17 million = 24 million cap hit all guaranteed
Year 3 - Bonus = 15 million + Salary 18 million + 10 million roster bonus = 43 million cap hit (11 million guaranteed)
Year 4 Bonus = 3 million + Salary 25 million + Roster Bonus 15 million = 53 million (none guaranteed))

Tee would get
Year 1 = 35 million - All guaranteed
Year 2 - 17 million - All guaranteed
Year 2 - 28 million = 11 million guaranteed
Year 4 - 40 million = None guaranteed

Bengals have out in year 4 of only 3 million dead cap hit. If he plays well, they can convert roster bonus and or salary to extend him

Many ways to restructure, but in this example, Tee has a very manageable cap hit in 2025 of only 17 million and 2026 of 24 million as the NFL cap expands each year. Bengals projected to have 226 million in cap space in 2026.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-15-2025, 01:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There is a major difference between cap hit and contract dollars. If you factor in guaranteed dollars at signing, the cap number will be a lot less. For example, if Tee signs a deal for 4 years and 120 million, but only 70 million is guaranteed, it is not 30 million each year in cap. Let's say they give him a 30 million bonus for the 120 million with 70 guaranteed, it could look like this:

30 million bonus split as follows towards cap: Year 1 - 5 million Year 2 - 7 million, year 3 - 15 million, year 4 - 3 million

Cap hits and Guarantee
Year 1 - Bonus = 5 million + Salary 12 million = 17 million cap hit all guaranteed
Year 2 - Bonus = 7 million + Salary 17 million = 24 million cap hit all guaranteed
Year 3 - Bonus = 15 million + Salary 18 million + 10 million roster bonus = 43 million cap hit (11 million guaranteed)
Year 4 Bonus = 3 million + Salary 25 million + Roster Bonus 15 million = 53 million (none guaranteed))

Tee would get
Year 1 = 35 million - All guaranteed
Year 2 - 17 million - All guaranteed
Year 2 - 28 million = 11 million guaranteed
Year 4 - 40 million = None guaranteed

Bengals have out in year 4 of only 3 million dead cap hit. If he plays well, they can convert roster bonus and or salary to extend him

Many ways to restructure, but in this example, Tee has a very manageable cap hit in 2025 of only 17 million and 2026 of 24 million as the NFL cap expands each year. Bengals projected to have 226 million in cap space in 2026.

I completely agree with you, but you and I are talking about 2 different things.  I'm saying that Tee isn't signing a deal worth an average of 25 million per.  It's going to be 30 or more.  I get that we can structure that however we need to.

The money isn't the issue, the cash and the escrow will be the issue.

[Luvnit2]

(02-17-2025, 11:52 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I completely agree with you, but you and I are talking about 2 different things.  I'm saying that Tee isn't signing a deal worth an average of 25 million per.  It's going to be 30 or more.  I get that we can structure that however we need to.

The money isn't the issue, the cash and the escrow will be the issue.

The cash at signing is a huge issue. That is normally the guaranteed portion. No team is going to give Tee Higgins 120 million for 4 years with 100% guaranteed. It will be closer to 55% to 60%, with all guarantees mostly done after 3 years. 60% of 120 million is 72 million, so in essence the 120 million contract has a guarantee of 72 million over 3 years or 24 million oer year on average, less in year 1 and more in years, 2 and 3. 

Thus how I estimate cap each year for players with huge contracts.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-18-2025, 11:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The cash at signing is a huge issue. That is normally the guaranteed portion. No team is going to give Tee Higgins 120 million for 4 years with 100% guaranteed. It will be closer to 55% to 60%, with all guarantees mostly done after 3 years. 60% of 120 million is 72 million, so in essence the 120 million contract has a guarantee of 72 million over 3 years or 24 million oer year on average, less in year 1 and more in years, 2 and 3. 

Thus how I estimate cap each year for players with huge contracts.

Yeah, I get what you are saying, but it's not all that accurate.

Tee will end up around 4 years $120 million.  Not all guarantees are up front, just generally the signing bonus.  They can guarantee salary for 2 years or do something along the lines of that.

[Luvnit2]

(02-20-2025, 04:53 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Yeah, I get what you are saying, but it's not all that accurate.

Tee will end up around 4 years $120 million.  Not all guarantees are up front, just generally the signing bonus.  They can guarantee salary for 2 years or do something along the lines of that.

The guarantee is the basis for the cap. He would still have a contract for 4 years at 30 million a year, but cap dollars won't reflect 30 million in year one or 2. By the time it gets to year 3 a large portion of the guarantee will be spent. Thus in the year of the larger cap hits, Bengals could extend him or restructure or tey could cut him with little to no dead cap.

In essence, a player knows the guarantee is the contract. It is like a company offers a bonus after 2 years of employment, it is not salary, it is optional to be paid based on performance.

I think if we sign Chase to that huge contract, chance his year 1 cap hit goes down from the 21+ million he is set to earn (100% guaranteed) in 2025.

Take a look at JB's contract and cap hits and you will see how his cap hit was much lower than his average per year in years 1 and 2. In Tee's case, in year 3 and 4 my guess is they give him huge roster bonuses of 15 million in year 3 and 15 million in year 4. Most in year 3 not guaranteed and none of year 4 guaranteed.