How the Eagles have such a stacked roster

[lone bengal]

(02-13-2025, 01:34 PM)shanebo Wrote: But cap management is just a part of their success. They've also drafted extremely well, getting excellent production out of players who are still on rookie deals:
- Jalen Carter (All Pro)
- Cam Jurgens (Pro Bowl)
- Quinyon Mitchell (rookie, Pro Bowl alternate)
- Cooper DeJean (rookie, Pro Bowl alternate)
- Jordan Davis
- Nolan Smith
- Nakobe Dean
- Jalyx Hunt (rookie)
- Kelee Ringo (Pro Bowl alternate)
- Milton Williams

And they've bought low on a number of free agents who have performed well:
- Zack Baun (All Pro)
- Mekhi Becton
- CJGJ
- Avonte Maddox

But to OP's point, I'm fairly certain that this year they'll be able to re-sign their own FAs (Jurgens, maybe Davis/Dean/Williams or Sweat) and release a few guys (Slay? Bradberry? Huff?) so that they'll somehow have as much or more cap space as us ... Just a very well-run team.

Spot on great drafting ! And most of the guys they resigned are guys they drafted. Is Duke Tobin taking notes on these smaller rush guys like Nolan Smith ? Or we just going for size ? Eagles just drafting good lineman left and right. Kelce retires and there plan was for Jurgens to play guard which he did well then move to center which he did well and it worked flawlessly. Landon Dickson 2nd round guard he’s a stud. jordan mailata was a freaking rugby player and 7th round pick who turned into a good LT. We’re on our 4th O-line coach who take the heat for bad picks. Do we trust Duke to find a guard in this draft ? , what’s he look for and does he change what he looks for or just more of the same.

[WeezyBengal]

(02-13-2025, 01:17 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: The bill will eventually come due.  Look at the saints.  The rams rebounded incredibly from their all in approach.  

I am fore pushing chips in, while burrow is in his prime.  But there is a financial consequence.

I'd blame the Saints more for bad overall signings in general. They gave Taysum Hill 4 years 40 million and Derek Carr 4 years 150 million with a lot of that guranteed.  

They do have a number of contracts that they have restructured, and it does hurt them, but you can do it in a way where it will help your team significantly in the short term and doesn't hamper them too much in the future. You have to remember that the cap rises by about 8% each year. 

[WeezyBengal]

(02-13-2025, 03:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: As always cap isn't the issue, cash is and will continue to be the issue. People do forget that wealth of the owner does allow for distinct advantages in how you manipulate the cap. All of those restructuring and even void years to an extent rely on buying cap with cash. So it's not just about the signing bonus to get the guy you want, it's the conversion of cap to signing bonus for other people (that gets paid immediately in cash) to create the cap to sign those guys.

Cap rich and cash poor is a thing and continues to be the crux of our issue. It's why drafting is so important and why you'd think the team would invest more in draft resources, and staff to support it, to potentially offset some of the other tactics where they are at a distinct disadvantage against other teams. Paying guys early is one way the could also couter act this to an extent because the signing bonuses would be cheaper earlier even if you had to take bigger cap hits later.

In all though, the Bengals have never embraced any sort of tactic to get around their bigger hurdles in roster construction and that's probably the most disappointing thing. When you are the underdog you have to utilize any sort of "gimmick" or work around to get an edge and we have simply never embraced it instead choosing to approach things head on like we are the elephant in the room instead of the mouse.

I don't believe the Bengals are "cash poor". They get a check for 400 million from the league every year for revenue sharing. That doesn't include a cent they make for game day, advertising, ticket sale revenue. 

[Whatever]

(02-13-2025, 05:09 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I don't believe the Bengals are "cash poor". They get a check for 400 million from the league every year for revenue sharing. That doesn't include a cent they make for game day, advertising, ticket sale revenue. 

$400 million sounds like a lot of money until you realize that the Packers had operating costs of $596 mil, nearly 150% of that revenue sharing check.  

They are a cash poor team compared to the other 31 clubs they bid against for talent.  That isn't really debatable.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-13-2025, 04:37 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: I know that if I were in management I would be rushing to sign tee higgins ..a player that misses 5-6 games a year..a player that had to leave another 4-5 games early because of chronic tendionapthy..and at the same time neglecting the monetary  needs that will be required to fill  the  multiple holes that we have on our defensive and offensive lines and linebacker positions

Never said they should of rushed to sign Tee. Said they handled it the wrong way and they really screwed the pooch not extending Ja'Marr
before last season. Now they need to Tag Tee at the very least so they can get something for him when he leaves. Joe Burrow says he wants
Tee here though and I am fine with it as long as we can still make all the essential moves to the trenches and the extensions.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-13-2025, 05:27 PM)Whatever Wrote: $400 million sounds like a lot of money until you realize that the Packers had operating costs of $596 mil, nearly 150% of that revenue sharing check.  

They are a cash poor team compared to the other 31 clubs they bid against for talent.  That isn't really debatable.

The Packers operating costs also includes things like stadium upgrades and buying and developing real estate as investments. Over the previous two decades they've spent $600m on the stadium and $300m on their "Titletown District" which includes a hotel, brewery, etc. They also keep buying land around the stadium over time.

So those "operating costs" are inflated by non-player/personnel expenses that the Bengals simply don't have.

Not to say that the Browns/Blackburns have Walton or Hunt money, but they are doing quite fine financially.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-13-2025, 04:01 PM)Whatever Wrote: Void years are great in that they allow you to spread out bonus money for extra years.  If you're a cash strapped team that doesn't have the funds to escrow for big signing bonuses, they don't really help that much.  Reiff had a void  year when he signed here, though, iirc.  

Yea just one.

Jalen Hurts has 4 void years on his contract.
AJ Brown 4 years.
DeVonta Smith 4 years.

You get the point.

If a team can't have the funds to handle this kinda stuff, get outta the league with the big boys and sell to someone who can.

Otherwise, may as well be MLB and just see the small market teams almost never win the big dance.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-13-2025, 01:34 PM)shanebo Wrote: But cap management is just a part of their success.  They've also drafted extremely well, getting excellent production out of players who are still on rookie deals:
- Jalen Carter (All Pro)
- Cam Jurgens (Pro Bowl)
- Quinyon Mitchell (rookie, Pro Bowl alternate)
- Cooper DeJean (rookie, Pro Bowl alternate)
- Jordan Davis
- Nolan Smith
- Nakobe Dean
- Jalyx Hunt (rookie)
- Kelee Ringo (Pro Bowl alternate)
- Milton Williams

And they've bought low on a number of free agents who have performed well:
- Zack Baun (All Pro)
- Mekhi Becton
- CJGJ
- Avonte Maddox

But to OP's point, I'm fairly certain that this year they'll be able to re-sign their own FAs (Jurgens, maybe Davis/Dean/Williams or Sweat) and release a few guys (Slay? Bradberry? Huff?) so that they'll somehow have as much or more cap space as us ... Just a very well-run team.

Yes, properly identifying and grooming talent is another part of it, but that's something technically every team should be able to do since every team has a scouting department and coaches.

The one big thing that people wonder is how the heck Philly has so many dudes on big contracts, which was the point of the OP.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-13-2025, 08:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: since every team has a scouting department

[SunsetBengal]

(02-13-2025, 04:37 PM)ERIC1 Wrote: I know that if I were in management I would be rushing to sign tee higgins ..a player that misses 5-6 games a year..a player that had to leave another 4-5 games early because of chronic tendionapthy..and at the same time neglecting the monetary  needs that will be required to fill  the  multiple holes that we have on our defensive and offensive lines and linebacker positions

Unless you can back those words up with a verifiable link to the diagnoses, please don't say that again.

[bengalrick]

(02-13-2025, 02:51 PM)GodFather Wrote: 100% My joke with my two boys is I hope they get to see a Bengals SB ring because the way it's going I won't in my lifetime!  Katie and Troy look like they took Mikes attitude and added steroids to it.


All I think is Carson Palmer's quote years ago saying the organization always puts financial success first winning second. And the Brown family has not proven that wrong yet.

Bob Trumpy said the same thing on his sportstalk show on WLW decades ago. Other former players have said this also.

[*Go Cards*]

(02-13-2025, 01:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think (most) fans are willing to accept some down years down the road if it would mean getting a Super Bowl win or two in the near term.

Imagine if the Bengals had gone more all-in these past couple years. Maybe they would have ended up better than 9 wins each season.
But maybe Mike Brown only cares about having a continuous good-not-great team rather than an elite team with some down years in between.

It was a popular belief among many including myself that the last two season was when the SB window was wide open. You know before Tee and Chase are signed and take up a lot of cap space which made it the perfect time for the Bengals to go all in.

Joe is the one that quieted that talk by saying that the window is always going to be open as long as he is here. I agree with that per Joe is elite but it does not change the fact that the last couple years the chance was afforded to go all in while Tee, Chase, and Joe were all together. Don't see that working now unless Joe and Chase take less than market value to help pay Tee, or trade Tee and move on. 

Tough decisions have to be made from this juncture forward because of salary cap imho. Still doable but much more of a chess game now 

[Whatever]

(02-13-2025, 07:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Packers operating costs also includes things like stadium upgrades and buying and developing real estate as investments. Over the previous two decades they've spent $600m on the stadium and $300m on their "Titletown District" which includes a hotel, brewery, etc. They also keep buying land around the stadium over time.

So those "operating costs" are inflated by non-player/personnel expenses that the Bengals simply don't have.

Not to say that the Browns/Blackburns have Walton or Hunt money, but they are doing quite fine financially.

The Bengals operate in the black, no doubt, but also keep in mind that if they are in any way fiscally responsible, they are setting money aside for their own stadium renovations.

[ERIC1]

(02-13-2025, 09:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Unless you can back those words up with a verifiable link to the diagnoses, please don't say that again.

I dont have access to Tees medical records nor do i need ...  CHRONIC....long term/reoccuring ......   TENDIONAPTHY......  hamstrings.>>>.muscles and tendons

[SunsetBengal]

(02-14-2025, 11:02 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: I dont have access to Tees medical records nor do i need ...  CHRONIC....long term/reoccuring ......   TENDIONAPTHY......  hamstrings.>>>.muscles and tendons

So you're a doctor of orthopedics? Fantastic! Man, have I got a few questions for you.. 

[kalibengal]

(02-13-2025, 01:17 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: The bill will eventually come due.  Look at the saints.  The rams rebounded incredibly from their all in approach.  

I am fore pushing chips in, while burrow is in his prime.  But there is a financial consequence.

i've been a fan since 1975 and i dont know about how everyone else feels but JB is a once in a generational QB that the rest of league wished they had.
 ITs time to move all chips in for at least to say we gave it our best shot when JB was our QB. 

[*jason*]

(02-13-2025, 04:37 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Spot on great drafting ! And most of the guys they resigned are guys they drafted. Is Duke Tobin taking notes on these smaller rush guys like Nolan Smith ? Or we just going for size ? Eagles just drafting good lineman left and right. Kelce retires and there plan was for Jurgens to play guard which he did well then move to center which he did well and it worked flawlessly. Landon Dickson 2nd round guard he’s a stud. jordan mailata was a freaking rugby player and 7th round pick who turned into a good LT. We’re on our 4th O-line coach who take the heat for bad picks. Do we trust Duke to find a guard in this draft ? , what’s he look for and does he change what he looks for or just more of the same.

Yep... people have been screaming trenches, trenches, trenches for years now. They address it every year and there haven't been great returns on investment. I can only conclude that they don't know how to fix it.

[puddycat]

The Eagles will be paying Saquon 22 of the 37 million of his contract after his playing days are over. No thanks.
My frustration with the Bengals is the "if only" thinking. If only we had a great QB, of only we had a great WR, if only we had an elite pass rusher. Well they have all those things and they still aren't succeeding like they should. Well we would win "if only" our underperforming players played up to their potential, and "if only" no one gets injured, and "if only" the refs like us that day.
The Eagles thinking is "what and who puts us in the best position to win." We don't care who's getting paid, or who the 'best' players are. No one owes us, we don't need the refs to like us, and some of our players will get injured. We come up with a game plan every week to win.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-13-2025, 12:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: We've heard many people recently talking about how Eagles have such a stacked roster and are paying premium for Hurts, AJ brown, DeVonta Smith, Goedert, Slay, Sweat, Mailata, and Lane Johnson.

Some people are wondering how they are able to?

If looking at Spotrac, one can see they have no player with a cap hit higher than $22 mill (Jalen Hurts) for 2025, no player was even $16 mill cap hit for 2024.

The key thing the Eagles did for their big contracts was multiple void years to spread the cap across more years.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/cap/_/year/2025/sort/cap_total_top51

Compare that to the Bengals, who have 4 dudes with $15+ mill cap hits for 2025, including $46.25 mill for Burrow alone.

If the Bengals hope to stack their roster like the Eagles have, it would probably be in their best interest to restructure some of their key guys to add void years and/or add bigger cap hits in 3+ years from now so they can free up some cap for 2025-2026 and really try to make a push.

The spreading out definitely

(02-13-2025, 01:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think (most) fans are willing to accept some down years down the road if it would mean getting a Super Bowl win or two in the near term.

Imagine if the Bengals had gone more all-in these past couple years. Maybe they would have ended up better than 9 wins each season.
But maybe Mike Brown only cares about having a continuous good-not-great team rather than an elite team with some down years in between.

We are too afraid to take chances

(02-13-2025, 01:34 PM)shanebo Wrote: But cap management is just a part of their success. They've also drafted extremely well, getting excellent production out of players who are still on rookie deals:
- Jalen Carter (All Pro)
- Cam Jurgens (Pro Bowl)
- Quinyon Mitchell (rookie, Pro Bowl alternate)
- Cooper DeJean (rookie, Pro Bowl alternate)
- Jordan Davis
- Nolan Smith
- Nakobe Dean
- Jalyx Hunt (rookie)
- Kelee Ringo (Pro Bowl alternate)
- Milton Williams

And they've bought low on a number of free agents who have performed well:
- Zack Baun (All Pro)
- Mekhi Becton
- CJGJ
- Avonte Maddox

But to OP's point, I'm fairly certain that this year they'll be able to re-sign their own FAs (Jurgens, maybe Davis/Dean/Williams or Sweat) and release a few guys (Slay? Bradberry? Huff?) so that they'll somehow have as much or more cap space as us ... Just a very well-run team.

Contrast … we’ve drafted 12 players (1-3 picks) the last 4 years. Only Chase, Mims, and CTB are starters. CTB not great just serviceable. Recently free agency has been hit or miss.

You nailed it though Shanebo on the real crux behind their success. They had some luck but they’ve drafted well and their trade with the Titans was very good for A J Brown.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-14-2025, 07:23 AM)Go Cards Wrote: It was a popular belief among many including myself that the last two season was when the SB window was wide open. You know before Tee and Chase are signed and take up a lot of cap space which made it the perfect time for the Bengals to go all in.

Joe is the one that quieted that talk by saying that the window is always going to be open as long as he is here. I agree with that per Joe is elite but it does not change the fact that the last couple years the chance was afforded to go all in while Tee, Chase, and Joe were all together. Don't see that working now unless Joe and Chase take less than market value to help pay Tee, or trade Tee and move on. 

Tough decisions have to be made from this juncture forward because of salary cap imho. Still doable but much more of a chess game now 

Well last season Joe got hurt so that window was closed as soon as that happened even if Browning was a pleasant surprise.

In the end coaching I believe was the biggest reason we didn't make a run the last couple of years, last year we made some bonehead moves
as well letting Reader go to the Lions, bringing in Rankins and Stone etc.

(02-14-2025, 02:53 PM)jason Wrote: Yep... people have been screaming trenches, trenches, trenches for years now. They address it every year and there haven't been great returns on investment. I can only conclude that they don't know how to fix it.

Scott Peters and Montgomery could help fix the trenches while we bring in some players...

(02-14-2025, 03:02 PM)puddycat Wrote: The Eagles will be paying Saquon 22 of the 37 million of his contract after his playing days are over.  No thanks.
My frustration with the Bengals is the "if only" thinking.  If only we had a great QB, of only we had a great WR, if only we had an elite pass rusher.  Well they have all those things and they still aren't succeeding like they should. Well we would win "if only" our underperforming players played up to their potential, and "if only" no one gets injured, and "if only" the refs like us that day.
The Eagles thinking is "what and who puts us in the best position to win." We don't care who's getting paid, or who the 'best' players are.  No one owes us, we don't need the refs to like us, and some of our players will get injured.  We come up with a game plan every week to win.

A lot of these if only's could be on coaching. It just seemed only the elite talents were the ones that showed up in Joe, Ja'Marr and Trey.

If we can get some coaches that can coach up some players these if only's could come to fruition. Would be nice to have a game plan on Defense
other than get a 3 and out once late in a game or get a turnover which is what Lou seemed to rely on. From what I am hearing we will be seeing a
much more aggressive Defense under Al Golden.