"Inching closer" to getting the JaMarr Chase deal done

[StoneTheCrow]

(10 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Right after Bronx got a thumbs down for saying he wouldn't believe it until he saw the press conference. Lol

Chase gave that a thumbs down?

[Sled21]

Rapien posted last night the deals with both Chase and Higgins are being finalized

[phil413]

(10 hours ago)THE PISTONS Wrote: It would be great to get them both signed.

That said, they'll be paying massively more to wr room than any team. There's going to be a premium on drafting performers at other positions. Just an absolute premium.

They put themselves here by drafting poorly, they don't even have a star DL or OL that needs extended "with Tee’s money".  It's better to pay the known talent even at the same position and keep Burrow happy than overpay a FA at need positions.  They just have to draft well on the lines, like they should have since the SB run.  Hopefully Tee has one year shorter than what we expect in case we do have to choose between him and a young star DL. 

[sandwedge]

(Yesterday, 05:26 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I know fans like to blame the FO anytime things go poorly. I had a conversation the other day about Bengals not getting Chase done and then Garrett reset the market for highest paid.

His comment was it appeared both sides were looking to get the deal done at the combine. He said it is very possible Chase's agent found out Browns were looking to keep Garrett and offer him highest paid contract.

It is possible because I don't think the Browns woke up one day and said today we are going to offer Garrett the moon, then got it done quickly. As he said, Brown and Garrett's agents were likely speaking for weeks.

I have had this thought in the back of my mind for a while. They could be waiting to make sure that JaMarr is getting the highest non-QB contract. 

[Luvnit2]

(10 hours ago)THE PISTONS Wrote: It would be great to get them both signed.

That said, they'll be paying massively more to wr room than any team. There's going to be a premium on drafting performers at other positions. Just an absolute premium.

A great one once said, there is nothing to fear, but fear itself.

I see fans trashing the team for spending money (because they either do not agree with on who or those who insist the Bengals are cheap).

If Bengals sign Chase to this huge contract fans will still claim Bengals are cheap when in reality, it will be the second time in afew years they have given a player the most in the NFL at the time (Burrow most in the entire league) and then Chase most for a non QB.

I don't think they are cheap. I think they were before the CBA determined the minimum and maximum they could spend each year.

Bengals need to play by te same rules other teams are using to circumvent the cap. Team like the Ravens look like they have no cap every year, then add void years and other methods to push the cap to later years. The good news is Bengals have not done it a lot so they can do it a lt more to create cap space. 

Bengals could create antother 40 to 50 million easily if they choose, so te argument we dont have the money (don't need bonus money) is simply not true. Void years push cap down the road 2, 3, 4 or 5 years if they choose making it easy to sign FA's. Bengals just have chosen not to do so. Maybe they knew this day would come with Trey, Jamar and Tee and were saving it for now. 

Hopefully the Bengals are very creative assigning cap space for these guys for 2025. If so, the team can still sign the guards and even a 10 milllion a year one year rental on a great pass rusher.

[phil413]

(9 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: Rapien posted last night the deals with both Chase and Higgins are being finalized

Good to hear but I think the silence of these guys recently speaks volumes.  I don't think we understand how close we could be to any of them sitting even one or two games and taking another game or two to get up to speed. The knock already is the rough starts. 

[Luvnit2]

(9 hours ago)phil413 Wrote: They put themselves here by drafting poorly, they don't even have a star DL or OL that needs extended "with Tee’s money".  It's better to pay the known talent even at the same position and keep Burrow happy than overpay a FA at need positions.  They just have to draft well on the lines, like they should have since the SB run.  Hopefully Tee has one year shorter than what we expect in case we do have to choose between him and a young star DL. 

Seriously does it matter how they drafted poorly? How can they fix prior drafts? They can't, all they can do is attempt to improve future drafts.

As I stated in my previous post Bengals can create another 40 to 50 million (to go with the 20 million we still have) in 2025 if FO pushes the cap money to future years. The Ravens have done it for many years. We have not.

My point is reagrdless how they drafted, the team needs to focus on solutions to improve in 2025, looking back at poor drafting is a waste of their time and energy in my humble opinion.

[Whatever]

(9 hours ago)phil413 Wrote: Good to hear but I think the silence of these guys recently speaks volumes.  I don't think we understand how close we could be to any of them sitting even one or two games and taking another game or two to get up to speed. The knock already is the rough starts. 

If Chase, Tee, or Trey was going to sit, why wouldn't they have done it last year?

Chase, I suppose you could argue for that happening after winning the Triple Crown and having a lot more negotiating leverage.

Tee is in the same situation he was last year.   FT'd after a disappointing sub 1000 yard injury plagued season.  He can't half ass it or he won't get that big payday once he finally hits FA.

Trey's been underpaid since his first season here.  He may skip OTA's, but he's gonna show up and play like a warrior cuz that's just in the man's DNA.  

[phil413]

(9 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: Seriously does it matter how they drafted poorly? How can they fix prior drafts? They can't, all they can do is attempt to improve future drafts.

As I stated in my previous post Bengals create another 40 to 50 million (to go with the 20 million we still have) in 2025 if FO pushes the cap money to future years. The Ravens have done it for many years. We have not.

My point is reagrdless how they drafted, the team needs to focus on solutions to improve in 2025, looking back at poor drafting is a waste of their time and energy in my humble opinion.

I know my post will come across as negative but I'm saying the product of drafting poorly is that it has brought Tee back to being a default option to pay.  I seriously thought they'd tag and trade him at some point, but the absence of the quality building blocks as better extension options and Burrow's demand for him mean you pay him for at least 3 years.  

I mean who else are they paying? They can still get a few solid FA from this class and I'm not disagreeing with your logic of pushing money forward as the Ravens have.  I think they can get Tee to get a higher 3 year guaranteed deal in hopes he sees it as a shot to get paid again.  I just don't see his signing as blocking these great options that don't exist currently on the roster.  Now, would I love to take Tee’s money and recreate the Hendrickson and Reader moves? Of course, but it's not a guarantee that those players will be there in FA next year. If they don't use this money for Tee now, we may be a year closer to a Burrow trade demand or Chase at the least.  That's what Tee is to me right now.  I'd rather have a star defensive player in his place, but pay him so we survive even if we are built "wrong". 

[SunsetBengal]

(11 hours ago)ERIC1 Wrote: Chase will be a  Bengal for years to come ..the deal will be done..really is not major news or a big deal

Yes, I get that. However, we're talking about the Bengals FO here, everything is a big deal to them. I mean these are deals that should have been made one and two years ago. The front office has dragged their feet so long that the prices only went up significantly, and they haven't done enough to generate the outside revenue needed, in order to have the liquid cash available to cover the guaranteed money in the modern contracts.

[Luvnit2]

(9 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, I get that. However, we're talking about the Bengals FO here, everything is a big deal to them. I mean these are deals that should have been made one and two years ago. The front office has dragged their feet so long that the prices only went up significantly, and they haven't done enough to generate the outside revenue needed, in order to have the liquid cash available to cover the guaranteed money in the modern contracts.

Here is an update from last full year for Bengals finances 2023. I am not sure their actual net income, but it is likely a very high number. If you look the one thing that is huge is their debt is only 2%. I have mentioned in the past Bengals could easily get loans. A bank in business will normally give a healthy business great loan rates for up to 75% of their equity. Bengals could borrow a ton of cash if needed to front load contracts with huge bonuses. 

Since debt is low, it is likely profit (net income) is in the 25 to 30% range. If so, Bengals on low end made 136 million dollars in 2023. If they are making over 100 million a year, cash should not be an issue. Butif it is, they have a ton of equity they could leverage for player contracts.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/05/nfl-valuations-2024-cincinnati-bengals.html


Valuation: $5.25 billion
Revenue: $546 million
EBITDA: $42 million
Debt as a percentage of value: 2%

Franchise history
Owner: Mike Brown
Year purchased: 1967
Purchase price: $8 million
Stadium: Paycor Stadium
Paid attendance for 2023 regular season: 594,361

[SunsetBengal]

(9 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: Here is an update from last full year for Bengals finances 2023. I am not sure their actual net income, but it is likely a very high number. If you look the one thing that is huge is their debt is only 2%. I have mentioned in the past Bengals could easily get loans. A bank in business will normally give a healthy business great loan rates for up to 75% of their equity. Bengals could borrow a ton of cash if needed to front load contracts with huge bonuses. 

Since debt is low, it is likely profit (net income) is in the 25 to 30% range. If so, Bengals on low end made 136 million dollars in 2023. If they are making over 100 million a year, cash should not be an issue. Butif it is, they have a ton of equity they could leverage for player contracts.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/05/nfl-valuations-2024-cincinnati-bengals.html


Valuation: $5.25 billion
Revenue: $546 million
EBITDA: $42 million
Debt as a percentage of value: 2%

Franchise history
Owner: Mike Brown
Year purchased: 1967
Purchase price: $8 million
Stadium: Paycor Stadium
Paid attendance for 2023 regular season: 594,361

Aren't you a former business owner? 25% profit in any industry is just plain crazy. I work in Surveying and Engineering where an 8% net profit is cause for celebration.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(8 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: Aren't you a former business owner? 25% profit in any industry is just plain crazy. I work in Surveying and Engineering where an 8% net profit is cause for celebration.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/cincinnati-bengals/

Has the Bengals at $76m operating income for the 2023 season, which is still pre-taxes.

[Luvnit2]

(8 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: Aren't you a former business owner? 25% profit in any industry is just plain crazy. I work in Surveying and Engineering where an 8% net profit is cause for celebration.

I am. I routinely hit 15 to 20% when I had little to know debt. The Bengals 42 million loan service is likely at 3 to 4% as rates not long ago were under 3%. But let's just say it is 5%, that is only 2.1 million in debt service.

Let's say I am wrong and it is only 10% net profit. That means they made 45.6 million in profit - debt service of 2.1 million. That have pre-tax income of 43.5 million. If they pay 40% in federal taxes, they generated in one year 60% of 43.5 million or 26.1 million. I wish I knew their cash on hand. But, we all know profits and equity for NFL teams has skyrocketed the past 20 years. MB bought out majority of non family members over 20 years ago.

The Bengals are ne of the best financial management pro sports franchises in the world. What are they doing with 15 to 25 million a year in profit (cash)?Keep in mind every bonus they pay is in the calculation as an expense already accounted for in the profit number.

There is no way Bengals are cash poor. I would speculate the family has in excess of 250 million sitting in a bank and drawing interest.

Bengals have a great deal with te city (lease or rent). What major expenses do they have? A few ago they brought on a major sponsor for the stadium. My business wa a part of a group of almost 150 businesses. We sponsored the to the tune of over 200K per year for advertising. I left, but group still advertises. We are one group of many who the Bengals collect advertising dollars from to use towards expenses.

[Luvnit2]

(8 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: https://www.forbes.com/teams/cincinnati-bengals/

Has the Bengals at $76m operating income for the 2023 season, which is still pre-taxes.

I lowered my forecast. But, yes in my first post I did not address taxes.

If they made on average 15 million a year after taxes over 20 years, that is 300 million in cash in their business sitting there to spend on bonuses and collect interest. The interest alone (banks give better rates the more money you invest with them) is at a minimum 5% now and years agi was closer to 10%.

If they have 300 million in cash on hand, they make 15 million a year in just interest or an extra 12 million after they service their loans.

[Sled21]

Now this morning I'm hearing the only thing left to be agreed on with Chase is the Injury Settlement.

[SunsetBengal]

(8 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am. I routinely hit 15 to 20% when I had little to know debt. The Bengals 42 million loan service is likely at 3 to 4% as rates not long ago were under 3%. But let's just say it is 5%, that is only 2.1 million in debt service.

Let's say I am wrong and it is only 10% net profit. That means they made 45.6 million in profit - debt service of 2.1 million. That have pre-tax income of 43.5 million. If they pay 40% in federal taxes, they generated in one year 60% of 43.5 million or 26.1 million. I wish I knew their cash on hand. But, we all know profits and equity for NFL teams has skyrocketed the past 20 years. MB bought out majority of non family members over 20 years ago.

The Bengals are ne of the best financial management pro sports franchises in the world. What are they doing with 15 to 25 million a year in profit (cash)?Keep in mind every bonus they pay is in the calculation as an expense already accounted for in the profit number.

There is no way Bengals are cash poor. I would speculate the family has in excess of 250 million sitting in a bank and drawing interest.

Bengals have a great deal with te city (lease or rent). What major expenses do they have? A few ago they brought on a major sponsor for the stadium. My business wa a part of a group of almost 150 businesses. We sponsored the to the tune of over 200K per year for advertising. I left, but group still advertises. We are one group of many who the Bengals collect advertising dollars from to use towards expenses.

Good for them, that is their personal earnings as a result of accumulation over time, not the team's net profit.

[SunsetBengal]

(8 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: I lowered my forecast. But, yes in my first post I did not address taxes.

If they made on average 15 million a year after taxes over 20 years, that is 300 million in cash in their business sitting there to spend on bonuses and collect interest. The interest alone (banks give better rates the more money you invest with them) is at a minimum 5% now and years agi was closer to 10%.

If they have 300 million in cash on hand, they make 15 million a year in just interest or an extra 12 million after they service their loans.

You don't think that they spend from that team account every year? It's not like they can just sock away the money and pretend it doesn't exist, they have to keep spending to keep the team going.

[phil413]

(8 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: Now this morning I'm hearing the only thing left to be agreed on with Chase is the Injury Settlement.

Lol how is so much of this leaking? Is there a series on Netflix I'm missing?

[Luvnit2]

(8 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: You don't think that they spend from that team account every year? It's not like they can just sock away the money and pretend it doesn't exist, they have to keep spending to keep the team going.

The numbers I am projecting (I am not close to having all the data) is after taxes and after payment of debt.

Yes to your earlier post, the cash on hand is accumulation of many years. The one key is aroundthe early 2000's they had to borrow money to buy back the stock ownership owned by non familiy members. I am fairly certain those loans were paid off. I am not sure the % of ownership thay bought back, but the family now owns all of the stock which is huge.

To have a net worth of over 5 billion, the team needs massive profits and extremly high cash flow with minimal debt. My guess is they have all 3.