Zac deserves a lot of credit

[George Cantstandya]

(03-17-2025, 02:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yoshi actually showed big time improvement with his hands last season. It was the route running that needs to get cleaned up.

And yeah, he is a TD machine which is great. Mike G needs to step up this season in getting TD's the most. Only had 2 last season.

His catch percentage and drop percentage were almost the same as the the prior year.  

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IosiAn00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IosiAn00.htm#all_adv_receiving_and_rushing

Catch percent 60% in 2023 and 59% last year. Drop percent 8.0 in 2023 and 8.2 percent last year. Where he did improve was receiving yards per target (4.6 in 2023 and 7.9 last year) and yards before catch per reception (5.4 in 2023 and 11.4 last year).

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-17-2025, 09:52 AM)rupethereitis Wrote: Could any previous Bengals coach get this done under Mike Brown?  The only one that I think would have had a chance was Marvin, and don't think he could have.  I was not a fan of the Taylor hire, but  Zac is responsible for a lot of the culture change for the Bengals.  He's a player's coach, he's developed a family atmosphere, and he seems to legitimately care about the players, the fans, and the organization itself.  Did he luck out with getting Burrow, Higgings, and Chase?  Yes.  Would those three have a super bowl if they were together on the Chiefs or Steelers?  Probably.  He has fostered a culture where these guys want to stay together and that says a lot.  You can tell the players appreciate and respect him.  They seem to go to bat for him.  There is a ton that he can improve on; slow starts, position coach loyalty, the draft, to name a few.  Some out of his control, I would imagine.  I can only name one guy that, character wise, has blown up on him.  Burton.  

A lot of credit has to be given to the Brown family as well.  They have allowed Zac to modernize the Bengals, to an extent, and you can see honest efforts in they way are doing things in comparison to the past.  

Will it all work out?  I still have my doubts as there are a ton of holes to fill.  At least we have a shot now.

Ask yourself who is responsible for the stadium name change? It seems to me, Zac has a good rapport with the players which is important. But, he doesn’t have the juice to rename Paul Brown stadium and he surely isn’t in charge of the checkbook.

The person responsible for the name change and in charge of the checkbook deserves the credit for the culture change. By all accounts that’s Katie and Troy Blackburn. Because otherwise, this team would be no better or worse off than during the Marvin era.

[*jason*]

(03-17-2025, 01:30 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Eh, that's true of 2024, but not '23. Losing Burrow was probably the biggest reason they missed the playoffs that season. They still managed to make a life practice squad QB look good. 

No one likes to talk about it....but Joe Burrow starts off slow every year too. Some of that is due to injury, but not last season. Remember that Stooler game where he turned it over 5 times? That the coach's fault? 

Burrow was hard to watch in that Pittsburgh game. I'ma give him a pass with the appendix on that. He WAS really ******' bad though.

[rupethereitis]

(03-17-2025, 03:43 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Ask yourself who is responsible for the stadium name change? It seems to me,  Zac has a good rapport with the players which is important. But, he doesn’t have the juice to rename Paul Brown stadium and he surely isn’t in charge of the checkbook.

The person responsible for the name change and in charge of the checkbook deserves the credit for the culture change. By all accounts that’s Katie and Troy Blackburn. Because otherwise, this team would be no better or worse off than during the Marvin era.

I agree.  They are a big part of it as well.  I think they knew they had to change.  They took a young guy from a winning program (Rams) and took his input.  Much like he seems to take players input into account.   I'll admit I didn't like the hire, but I feel he's been a good fit with the players, owners, and fans.  Guy just seems to get it.  

What I'm concerned about is the holes now.   Guard, edge rusher, backup running back, Safety depth, line backers, corner backs.  We have lots of holes to fix with only 6 draft picks and slim free agent pickings.  June cuts may be big for this team and young players have to step it up.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-17-2025, 03:40 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: His catch percentage and drop percentage were almost the same as the the prior year.  

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IosiAn00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IosiAn00.htm#all_adv_receiving_and_rushing

Catch percent 60% in 2023 and 59% last year. Drop percent 8.0 in 2023 and 8.2 percent last year. Where he did improve was receiving yards per target (4.6 in 2023 and 7.9 last year) and yards before catch per reception (5.4 in 2023 and 11.4 last year).

Yeah, I wasn't really talking about his drop percentage as much as the way he started catching with his hands instead of his body.

Still needs to clean up the drops.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-17-2025, 03:47 PM)jason Wrote: Burrow was hard to watch in that Pittsburgh game. I'ma give him a pass with the appendix on that. He WAS really ******' bad though.

Oh yeah ....most of his slow starts are coming off an injury, or surgery in that case. He definitely gets a pass, but like you said, he was brutal to watch that Sunday....and we still almost won. He missed a lot of open balls last year in week 1 and said as much. I just don't understand why folks always point at the coaches, but gloss over his poor starts. I sure didn't expect him to be so off against NE. That said, it is up to the coaches to work around that until he hits his groove.

[coachmcneil71]

(03-18-2025, 03:32 PM)Wyche Wrote: Oh yeah ....most of his slow starts are coming off an injury, or surgery in that case. He definitely gets a pass, but like you said, he was brutal to watch that Sunday....and we still almost won. He missed a lot of open balls last year in week 1 and said as much. I just don't understand why folks always point at the coaches, but gloss over his poor starts. I sure didn't expect him to be so off against NE. That said, it is up to the coaches to work around that until he hits his groove.

You're not wrong. He has had some stinkers, but he was pretty darn good down the stretch last year. I think getting these deals done and knowing that inconsistent play early in their season's have bitten them in the arse. 

I think the boys on offense are going to be highly motivated much earlier this coming season. Fingers crossed!

 It's going to come down to how quickly AG can turn this defense around. If he comes in and the D begins playing well, it will be another feather in Zac's cap. And, he probably gets a pass in year one, sort of. That's reasonable, but if he is a huge failure that should fall on Zac somewhat for hiring him. 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(03-18-2025, 03:32 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Oh yeah ....most of his slow starts are coming off an injury, or surgery in that case. He definitely gets a pass, but like you said, he was brutal to watch that Sunday....and we still almost won. He missed a lot of open balls last year in week 1 and said as much. I just don't understand why folks always point at the coaches, but gloss over his poor starts. I sure didn't expect him to be so off against NE. That said, it is up to the coaches to work around that until he hits his groove.

I think his slow starts are less about injury and more about a lack of tape on the opposition. His superpower is knowing what the opposition D is doing. He doesn’t know that until there’s enough tape out there.

Slow starts are something we’ll need to learn to live with. That may mean relying more on the D and the running game in September, even October.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

I think Zac deserves a shit-ton of credit for A LOT of things that he doesn't get credit for.

However, for this specific contract, he probably only helped foster and develop the camaraderie with the current players and the like, which made the WRs want to stick around and that's about it: the money, the length, the other things, I highly doubt he had much of a say in things; Bengals coaches have a ton of responsibility for evaluation and other offseason things, but contracts they probably have little to 0 input.

Quote:CJD

I remember that, in 2019 and a lot of 2020, the veterans on the team had big problems with how Zac was running the team. He did himself no favors by benching Andy Dalton on his birthday in 2019, just in time to not be able to trade him, and then releasing him after the draft when Joe Burrow was drafted (after free agency was over and most of the starting roles were set in stone across the league)

Then Carlos Dunlap's demotion and subsequent media engagement about the arguments.

Not sure why the quote screwed up lol.

For the bold, I have a VERY strong feeling that Marvin was so old school in his ways and style, the vets just didn't like the new things and new way of doing things (ala McVay, with less yelling lol).

Zac too, needed a year and a bit of teething to get used to the rigors: as an Assistant, I'm sure it's not as much of a slog as it is for the HC, especially (as mentioned above) as a Bengals HC is required to do so much more.

Once the old guard of vets was gone, even WITHOUT the winning (talking post-Dunlap and Geno), attitudes and morale was high, as can be remembered from the Pitt. game and the season ended on an enthusiastic note, even with the depressing final game, because of what was going to happen the next year: that 2021 offseason saw the biggest influx of new fans, podcasts, Twitter engagement and news/buzz around the team and this was before FA and the draft as well.

It's a combination of winning, Zac, the Blackburn girls and starting to modernize.

[*ochocincos*]

Taylor deserves credit for the culture and atmosphere he helped changed since coming in 2019.
That is one aspect that does actually feel different from the Marvin era.

[TecmoBengals]

My favorite "give Zac credit" moment showing he "gets it" with the fans.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-18-2025, 04:13 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: You're not wrong. He has had some stinkers, but he was pretty darn good down the stretch last year. I think getting these deals done and knowing that inconsistent play early in their season's have bitten them in the arse. 

I think the boys on offense are going to be highly motivated much earlier this coming season. Fingers crossed!

 It's going to come down to how quickly AG can turn this defense around. If he comes in and the D begins playing well, it will be another feather in Zac's cap. And, he probably gets a pass in year one, sort of. That's reasonable, but if he is a huge failure that should fall on Zac somewhat for hiring him. 

He's MONEY down the stretch ....a stone cold assassin. I've just noticed he gets out of the gate slow, and I think this is a good observation as to why....

(03-18-2025, 04:20 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I think his slow starts are less about injury and more about a lack of tape on the opposition. His superpower is knowing what the opposition D is doing. He doesn’t know that until there’s enough tape out there.

Slow starts are something we’ll need to learn to live with. That may mean relying more on the D and the running game in September, even October.

That's an excellent point and observation. I think Zac has hinted at that, but used the term "we" in describing it. I remember him catching a lot of flack for saying they opened up with a lot of screens to see what the defense is doing. Your post makes me think they did it so Joe could see and learn, and he learns quick. 

In that regard, the game plan needs to help as you noted, and that's on the offensive staff for sure. 

[Bronxbengal]

Zac had as much to do with Tee and Chase signing as he had with bringing the stranded astronauts back to earth. He had nothing to do with.