Can someone explain to me what guys specifically we could’ve signed with Tee’s money

[007BengalsFan]

(Yesterday, 02:46 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Exactly. Since Burrow has been here:

Logan Wilson - 3rd round
Ossai - 3rd round
Dax - 1st round
CTB - 2nd round
Zach Carter - 3rd round
Murphy - 1st round
Turner - 2nd round
Battle - 3rd round
Jenkins - 2nd round
Jackson - 3rd round

That’s a lot of premium picks. So I’m not sure where this boo hoo the poor defense narrative is coming from.

The reason they have spent so many premium picks on the defense is because they let a lot the better talent leave from the defense so they could save money to give to the offensive guys.  Its also not like they havent used premium picks on the offense in the past 5 years either

Burrow - 1st round
Higgins - 2nd round
Chase - 1st round
Carman - 2nd round
Mims - 1st round
Burton - 3rd round

In the past 5 years the Bengals have spent just as many 1st and 2nd round draft picks on offense as they have defense, 5

[CJD]

My big issue with the way this all happened was that we didn't do it earlier. Probably cost the team ~7 to 10M AAV by not getting these deals signed last off season.

That's a starting guard's salary right there.

But I agree, I don't believe they could have spent this money more effectively than they did with Tee Higgins, given the free agent class.

[Whatever]

(Yesterday, 11:35 AM)bfine32 Wrote: At least we've grown as a fanbase from complaining about them NOT spending money to HOW they spend money.

Baby steps.

At least Mikey boy can't be accused of pocketing the money this time.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(Yesterday, 12:19 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Can you explain the Steelers 24 point swing? You omitted that.

Russ had one of the best games of his life against us in that first matchup. It was the only game he got above 300 yards last season, let alone 400. It was also one of Lou’s absolute worst coaching performances, right up there with the Mike White game.

I mean, I guess you can hang your hat on the fact that he didn’t ball out again the 2nd time, but for me the competition was a huge factor during that winning streak.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10 hours ago)007BengalsFan Wrote: The reason they have spent so many premium picks on the defense is because they let a lot the better talent leave from the defense so they could save money to give to the offensive guys.  Its also not like they havent used premium picks on the offense in the past 5 years either

Burrow - 1st round
Higgins - 2nd round
Chase - 1st round
Carman - 2nd round
Mims - 1st round
Burton - 3rd round

In the past 5 years the Bengals have spent just as many 1st and 2nd round draft picks on offense as they have defense, 5

The difference is the guys on offense actually hit and deserved to be paid. We need some of the defensive picks to do that now.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(10 hours ago)007BengalsFan Wrote: The reason they have spent so many premium picks on the defense is because they let a lot the better talent leave from the defense so they could save money to give to the offensive guys.  Its also not like they havent used premium picks on the offense in the past 5 years either

Burrow - 1st round
Higgins - 2nd round
Chase - 1st round
Carman - 2nd round
Mims - 1st round
Burton - 3rd round

In the past 5 years the Bengals have spent just as many 1st and 2nd round draft picks on offense as they have defense, 5

Not all picks are equal though.

Higgins was 33 that’s basically the same as Dax Hill at 31.

It’s been just three top 50 picks on D in 8 years and that includes Kris Jenkins at 49 last year. Compare that to the four top 20 picks on O in that time frame.

The last three R2 picks on O were 46, 33 and 52. Compare that to D which was 49, 60 and 60.

The last three R3 picks on D were 95, 95 and 97. The last R3 O pick was Burton at 80, then 83 and 85.

Usually a draft class is something like
1-5 1A
6-15 1B
15-25 1C
26-40 2A
41-55 2B etc

The distribution will vary a little each year but this year they’ve got a shot at a 1B player on D for the first time since 2008. That should be massive for this D. They could get a 2B as well. That might be the biggest injection of draft defensive talent on paper since Pollack and Thurman.

[007BengalsFan]

(6 hours ago)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The difference is the guys on offense actually hit and deserved to be paid. We need some of the defensive picks to do that now.

It's much easier to hit when you are picking in the top 5, twice.  Those are generally cant miss picks.  Mims was picked 17th.  Jonah Williams was 11th.  The highest pick Zac has spent on defense was Myles Murphy at #28.  Overall Zac Taylor has spent 7 1st and 2nd round picks on offense vs 5 on defense.  Also, the picks on offense have been much higher so all picks are not the same.

Offense:  1, 5, 11, 17, 33, 46, 52

Defense:  28, 31, 49, 60, 60

[Nicomo Cosca]

(4 hours ago)007BengalsFan Wrote: It's much easier to hit when you are picking in the top 5, twice.  Those are generally cant miss picks.  Mims was picked 17th.  Jonah Williams was 11th.  The highest pick Zac has spent on defense was Myles Murphy at #28.  Overall Zac Taylor has spent 7 1st and 2nd round picks on offense vs 5 on defense.  Also, the picks on offense have been much higher so all picks are not the same.

Offense:  1, 5, 11, 17, 33, 46, 52

Defense:  28, 31, 49, 60, 60

They need to find their versions of Quinyon Mitchell and Cooper DeJean. Philly got those guys at 22 and 40 and both were very good starters on a SB winning team.

[Bengalbug]

(4 hours ago)007BengalsFan Wrote: It's much easier to hit when you are picking in the top 5, twice.  Those are generally cant miss picks.  Mims was picked 17th.  Jonah Williams was 11th.  The highest pick Zac has spent on defense was Myles Murphy at #28.  Overall Zac Taylor has spent 7 1st and 2nd round picks on offense vs 5 on defense.  Also, the picks on offense have been much higher so all picks are not the same.

Offense:  1, 5, 11, 17, 33, 46, 52

Defense:  28, 31, 49, 60, 60

Over the last 3 drafts 8 out of10, 1st through third round picks have gone to defense.

Prior to that, the bengals went way out of character acquiring vets over a 2 year span:

Reader, Hendrickson, Hill, Larry O, Chido, Vonn. Lou was gifted a good veteran defense, the issue was he couldn’t coach up ANY of the young guys to help take over the last 3 years. The 2019-2020 offseason defense addition model is unsustainable.

It’s not like the bengals just say.. we are picking top 5… gonna go offense here. Burrow and Chase were BPA at the time. Same for Dax, Murphy, etc when they were getting picked (hindsight 20/20).

You’re really trying to manipulate this into some twisted non truth.

The reality is the bengals had one of the highest paid defenses in the NFL last year and they were not returning on invesment.

[007BengalsFan]

(4 hours ago)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They need to find their versions of Quinyon Mitchell and Cooper DeJean. Philly got those guys at 22 and 40 and both were very good starters on a SB winning team.

Yes they do.  I still think a lot of the Bengals problems go back to having a bad scouting department.  It is easier to hit on earlier picks because those earlier picks are the consensus best players.  The further down the list you go, the better your scouting department needs to be.  Sometimes the guys you pick just arent that good.  Some fans will say stuff like "The Bengals spent a 1st round pick on Myles Murphy so the coaching staff needs to coach up Murphy and make him better"  Maybe Myles Murphy wasn't a good draft pick to begin with and cant be coached up to become a good football player.  Maybe he is just young and needs more time.  Its not as easy as saying "he should be better because the Bengals spent a 1st round pick on him"  The Bengals spent a 2nd round pick on Drew Sample.  Why doesnt the coaching staff coach him up and make him a #1 TE?  Why didnt they coach up Jackson Carman and make him better?  You could ask the same question about every day 1 or day 2 draft pick that turns out to not be that great of a pick.  Ultimately, I think the problem goes back to scouting.

[007BengalsFan]

(4 hours ago)Bengalbug Wrote: Over the last 3 drafts 8 out of10, 1st through third round picks have gone to defense.  

Prior to that, the bengals went way out of character acquiring vets over a 2 year span:

Reader, Hendrickson, Hill, Larry O, Chido, Vonn.  Lou was gifted a good veteran defense, the issue was he couldn’t coach up ANY of the young guys to help take over the last 3 years.  The 2019-2020 offseason defense addition model is unsustainable.

You act as though Lou was gifted this super talented defense.  He was not.  Many of the guys on defense became better football players under Lou's coaching. He made his secondary work with Awuzie and Apple as his #1 and #2 corners.  What did either one of them do before they came to Lou as coach and what did they do after they left Lou?  He took a subpar BJ Hill that the Giants thought so little of they traded him for Billy Price yet Lou made him into a good DT.  Trey Hendrickson flourished under Lou.  Pratt and Wilson were drafted under Lou and have played well.  Which guys on defense is it you think should be much better than what they are because of coaching?  

(4 hours ago)Bengalbug Wrote: It’s not like the bengals just say.. we are picking top 5… gonna go offense here.  Burrow and Chase were BPA at the time.  Same for Dax, Murphy, etc when they were getting picked (hindsight 20/20).

You’re really trying to manipulate this into some twisted non truth.  

Im not trying to twist anything.  I pointed out the facts.  You can choose to ignore those facts but it doesnt change what it is.  Under Zac Taylor the Bengals have used 7 1st and 2nd round draft picks on offense while using just 5 on defense.  The picks on offense have also been much higher than the ones used on defense.  That matters a lot which is why you want to have higher draft picks and why they are valued more than lower draft picks even in the 1st round.

Since you mentioned Dax Hill lets use the 2022 draft as an example.  Dax was picked #31, CTB was #60.  If they Bengals had a top 5 pick they take someone like Sauce Garner or Derek Stingley Jr instead or maybe even Kyle Hamilton.  The reason they take Dax or CTB latter is because they were a couple of guy who were left after the more sought after guys were taken.  The Bengals didnt have the option to take Garner or Stingley or Hamilton because those top guys were gone.  If the Bengals dont have top 5 picks they dont get Burrow or Chase.  The offense has been gifted high offensive draft picks.  The defense hasnt.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(3 hours ago)007BengalsFan Wrote: The offense has been gifted high offensive draft picks.  The defense hasnt.

I already mentioned the Eagles, but what about KC? Their best DL (Jones) was drafted 37th, their best LB (Bolton) 58th, and their best DB (McDuffie) 21st.

Spags wasn’t “gifted” a bunch of high picks either, and we’ve all seen his results.