Bengals needs after FA Frenzy

[XsandOs]

The question is whether the Bengals feel the roster is almost set in terms of starters.

If that is the case, then we are looking at a 2022 type of draft, where the first three rounds are on picks to replace future departures. CTB started at week 8.

Also, I realize that it is difficult to find immediate starters outside of top 10-15, especially on OL and DL. I don't think Mims was supposed to start early, and Jenkins was thrown in due to immediate need.

There is so much to consider in terms of which position(s) is/are immediate need(s) and who is(are) available in the draft at our mid round picks.

First and Second round CB, S, LB - could start sometime this year. G and 3-tech could possibly do as well.

But to get starters at all those positions in this draft, maybe wishful thinking.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Yesterday, 12:40 PM)XsandOs Wrote: The question is whether the Bengals feel the roster is almost set in terms of starters.

If that is the case, then we are looking at a 2022 type of draft, where the first three rounds are on picks to replace future departures. CTB started at week 8.

Also, I realize that it is difficult to find immediate starters outside of top 10-15, especially on OL and DL. I don't think Mims was supposed to start early, and Jenkins was thrown in due to immediate need.

There is so much to consider in terms of which position(s) is/are immediate need(s) and who is(are) available in the draft at our mid round picks.

First and Second round CB, S, LB - could start sometime this year. G and 3-tech could possibly do as well.

But to get starters at all those positions in this draft, maybe wishful thinking.

You are absolutely correct. Too many holes to fill/upgrade possibilities and too little space and picks to realistically plug them all. LG, RG, DE2, TE1, SS, FS, CB1, LB2, WR3, plus a rotational  DT pass rusher, OT3, RB3, and PK. That's 13 spots. 9 feasibly starters. 

That ain't happening. We are gonna have to live with imperfect solutions at some spots, hope guys bounce back at others, hope guys improve at others, and hope the scheme/coaching helps others. 

But which is which and who is who? 6 picks + 1-3 small/medium FA signings is certainly feasible now. More if Burrow restructures or we shed significant salary. 

I think it is reasonable to try and get a starter on day 1 and a starter/rotational level guy on day 2. 4th round and below is rotational/depth. A starter is found money, and usually down the road. 

So hope for: 
FA: 1 more starter level
Draft: 1 starter + 2 starter/high rotational 
Draft: 3 depth 

So maybe 3-4 starter level solutions and living with the rest. 

EDIT: The easiest to live with? For me.


1. PK: McPherson: hope he bounces back with full health.

2. WR3: Yoshi. Trust in his trajectory and we do have Gesicki/Hudson as easentially WR3-4 options. And maybe Chuck Sizzle can stay healthy or Burton gets his head on straight. 

3. LB2: Pratt. Hope he bounces back. But don't have him out there 3 downs all the time.If he pitches a fit, start Burks or trade. That would at least free up some $$ and/or net a pick where we could draft some replacement LB depth.

Now we are down to: RG, LG, DE2, TE1, CB1, SS, FS, rotational DT pass rusher, OT3, RB3. 

I think hoping the new system helps the secondary guys is not unreasonable. Living with CTB at CB1 and Turner/Dax were both pretty good before injury. That takes CB1 off the board unless Johnson falls to #17. Maybe a Hikton replacement later in, a lot of good slots in the draft. 

And take 1 S off. One good one + Stone/Battle would give us 3 playable guys. 

So: RG, LG, DE2, TE1, 1 S, rotational DT/pass rush, CB4, OT3, RB3. 

Still a long list, but feels more doable. Probably gonna have to live with a substandard starter somewhere (Ossai, D. Sample, Battle/Stone, Patrick). 

But a Burrow restructure, a cut or two (Moss?), a trade back, and/or some good value FA signings and it really becomes possible to get close. 

1 of Hernandez/Scherff/Colon/Risner
1 of best bargain FA defense: Smith (DE), Gillmore (CB), Simmons/Blackmon (S) 
1 of best bargain FA: OT3 (Tyron Smith?)/RB3.

If we even get 2 of those, I'd be thrilled. 

[phil413]

(Yesterday, 01:17 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You are absolutely correct. Too many holes to fill/upgrade possibilities and too little space and picks to realistically plug them all. LG, RG, DE2, TE1, SS, FS, CB1, LB2, WR3, plus a rotational  DT pass rusher, OT3, RB3, and PK. That's 13 spots. 9 feasibly starters. 

That ain't happening. We are gonna have to live with imperfect solutions at some spots, hope guys bounce back at others, hope guys improve at others, and hope the scheme/coaching helps others. 

But which is which and who is who? 6 picks + 1-3 small/medium FA signings is certainly feasible now. More if Burrow restructures or we shed significant salary. 

I think it is reasonable to try and get a starter on day 1 and a starter/rotational level guy on day 2. 4th round and below is rotational/depth. A starter is found money, and usually down the road. 

So hope for: 
FA: 1 more starter level
Draft: 1 starter + 2 starter/high rotational 
Draft: 3 depth 

So maybe 3-4 starter level solutions and living with the rest. 

Two opportunities to maximize quantity is the right trade back offer (and scenario where a true BPA isn't there) and late free ageny bargains.  I know we hate that word but maybe Risner, Campbell, Smith or a vet DB settle for a deal pre draft or you get a post draft cut.  Other teams may cut a fringe starting guard or DE if they have a great draft at that position.

I know the simulators are mostly unrealistic, but in most trade backs you still land just about as good of a DE prospect at 17 as with 28.  You could realistically draft competition at DE, S, G and another BPA even.  

[RunKijanaRun]

I was puzzled a few weeks ago when they didn’t sign Tee/Chase to their extensions earlier so they could be more creative with the cap. Even though they missed that deadline, they still could have prorated a lot of their money to allow more immediate cap room.

They refused. why?

Purposefully inflating the cap gives them an excuse to close the wallet. Which is exactly what they’ve done.

It’s cool to be happy they signed our guys to those LTCs, but don’t be fooled. They’re still cheap.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Yesterday, 01:50 PM)phil413 Wrote: Two opportunities to maximize quantity is the right trade back offer (and scenario where a true BPA isn't there) and late free ageny bargains.  I know we hate that word but maybe Risner, Campbell, Smith or a vet DB settle for a deal pre draft or you get a post draft cut.  Other teams may cut a fringe starting guard or DE if they have a great draft at that position.

I know the simulators are mostly unrealistic, but in most trade backs you still land just about as good of a DE prospect at 17 as with 28.  You could realistically draft competition at DE, S, G and another BPA even.  

Agree completely. I donthinknit is gonna,be tough to find a good trade back partner at #17. Precisely because everyone knows tge talent at 16-60 is relatively flat. The same dynamic is in play at #49. And you don't get much for moving down in Rd3 (though we still could).

The only reasons to pay a premium to trade up are if a stud guy falls or if the team is desperate to fill a need and falls in love with a prospect. 

In the first instance, we would likely be interested in the player falling (Warren, Walker, Johnson, Membou, W. Campbell, etc). Maybe Jeanty or Loveland or a WR would work for us. 

I do think vet bargains and late cuts in FA are realistic. I'd love to get Trey done. With Tee, Chase, & Trey all locked up, we become a much more attractive destination for a vet to chase a ring. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Yesterday, 01:55 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: I was puzzled a few weeks ago when they didn’t sign Tee/Chase to their extensions earlier so they could be more creative with the cap. Even though they missed that deadline, they still could have prorated a lot of their money to allow more immediate cap room.

They refused. why?

Purposefully inflating the cap gives them an excuse to close the wallet. Which is exactly what they’ve done.

It’s cool to be happy they signed our guys to those LTCs, but don’t be fooled. They’re still cheap.

You may indeed end up being right. But it is premature at the moment. We don't know the wallet is closed yet. Trey coud get extended. Another G could get signed. Some more cuts could be made (Moss, Volson, etc). Burrow could restructure. 

Paying Trey and restructuring Joe also means more cash flow into this year. Another explanation for not minimizingvtge cap hits this year for Tee/Chase to the fullest extent is that thatcalso costs cash outflow. And Mikey just cannot do all of them at once. 

You may call that cheap, but it also could be true. It is only cheap if you can afford it and choose not to. 

I think there will be at least one more FA signing. Of a value nature. Probably a G. Maybe even 2. Though it could be pist-draft. And I think a Trey extension is more probable than not. A Burrow restructure would surprise me. But he won't do it until after Trey is extended, even if Brown is willing.

[Whatever]

(03-20-2025, 04:59 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: 3T is a massive need.

There’s no inside pass rush at all.

At least Edge (and I’m not against edge at 17) has Hendrickson, Ossai and a recent first round pick in Murphy.

LB and S is based on the expectation that Stone and Pratt will be cut. But that’s more a want than a need. You don’t have to force a pick at either.

TE is a possible need given All being out and a late round RB would make sense.

I think OT in R2 is a very real possibility. They could have them play at G and then replace Orlando Brown further down the line.


Does anyone have a list of who they’ve met with so far?

Going to be tough to take a 3 tech early unless it's a clear BPA situation.  We're likely going to see Hill back at 3 tech and rotating with Jenkins while Slayton rotates with Jackson at NT.  Improvement from Jenkins and Jackson combined with BJ having shown he's a more effective rusher in the past when rotated heavily to keep him fresh is probably what they bank on.

[RunKijanaRun]

(Yesterday, 02:12 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You may indeed end up being right. But it is premature at the moment. We don't know the wallet is closed yet. Trey coud get extended. Another G could get signed. Some more cuts could be made (Moss, Volson, etc). Burrow could restructure. 

Paying Trey and restructuring Joe also means more cash flow into this year. Another explanation for not minimizingvtge cap hits this year for Tee/Chase to the fullest extent is that thatcalso costs cash outflow. And Mikey just cannot do all of them at once. 

You may call that cheap, but it also could be true. It is only cheap if you can afford it and choose not to. 

I think there will be at least one more FA signing. Of a value nature. Probably a G. Maybe even 2. Though it could be pist-draft. And I think a Trey extension is more probable than not. A Burrow restructure would surprise me. But he won't do it until after Trey is extended, even if Brown is willing.

Again, unless they truly have no idea what they’re doing, they could have done this a few different ways. That they chose this path tells you all you need to know.

And I’m pretty sure nothing is changing with Trey.

[XsandOs]

(Yesterday, 01:17 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You are absolutely correct. Too many holes to fill/upgrade possibilities and too little space and picks to realistically plug them all. LG, RG, DE2, TE1, SS, FS, CB1, LB2, WR3, plus a rotational  DT pass rusher, OT3, RB3, and PK. That's 13 spots. 9 feasibly starters. 

That ain't happening. We are gonna have to live with imperfect solutions at some spots, hope guys bounce back at others, hope guys improve at others, and hope the scheme/coaching helps others. 

But which is which and who is who? 6 picks + 1-3 small/medium FA signings is certainly feasible now. More if Burrow restructures or we shed significant salary. 

I think it is reasonable to try and get a starter on day 1 and a starter/rotational level guy on day 2. 4th round and below is rotational/depth. A starter is found money, and usually down the road. 

So hope for: 
FA: 1 more starter level
Draft: 1 starter + 2 starter/high rotational 
Draft: 3 depth 

So maybe 3-4 starter level solutions and living with the rest. 

EDIT: The easiest to live with? For me.


1. PK: McPherson: hope he bounces back with full health.

2. WR3: Yoshi. Trust in his trajectory and we do have Gesicki/Hudson as easentially WR3-4 options. And maybe Chuck Sizzle can stay healthy or Burton gets his head on straight. 

3. LB2: Pratt. Hope he bounces back. But don't have him out there 3 downs all the time.If he pitches a fit, start Burks or trade. That would at least free up some $$ and/or net a pick where we could draft some replacement LB depth.

Now we are down to: RG, LG, DE2, TE1, CB1, SS, FS, rotational DT pass rusher, OT3, RB3. 

I think hoping the new system helps the secondary guys is not unreasonable. Living with CTB at CB1 and Turner/Dax were both pretty good before injury. That takes CB1 off the board unless Johnson falls to #17. Maybe a Hikton replacement later in, a lot of good slots in the draft. 

And take 1 S off. One good one + Stone/Battle would give us 3 playable guys. 

So: RG, LG, DE2, TE1, 1 S, rotational DT/pass rush, CB4, OT3, RB3. 

Still a long list, but feels more doable. Probably gonna have to live with a substandard starter somewhere (Ossai, D. Sample, Battle/Stone, Patrick). 

But a Burrow restructure, a cut or two (Moss?), a trade back, and/or some good value FA signings and it really becomes possible to get close. 

1 of Hernandez/Scherff/Colon/Risner
1 of best bargain FA defense: Smith (DE), Gillmore (CB), Simmons/Blackmon (S) 
1 of best bargain FA: OT3 (Tyron Smith?)/RB3.

If we even get 2 of those, I'd be thrilled. 

I agree with your thoughts and will add that given the upgrades needed, we have to look at a realistic timeline of another SB run. 

I am guessing 2 years. I know the board members may not like this, but that is how I see it. 

Argument can be made that an interior OL, a 3-tech, CB, LB and a S, would complete the Team for a run this year. But that is assuming that all 5 would be starter level additions, and that Murphy can be a capable LDE and someone currently on the roster can man one of the G positions. And Trey is re-signed.

So, then the questions is which positions do you address now, and which ones next offseason? Keeping in mind that some players will have contracts expiring after this year, i.e. CBT, Ossai, Pratt, Karras, Stone, Volson, Hill, etc.

That is why CB, S, LB, G and DE are considered positions of need for this draft. Not to upgrade the Team, but use the draft to do what it is supposed to do - replenish for the future.

[RunKijanaRun]

(Yesterday, 02:02 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Agree completely. I donthinknit is gonna,be tough to find a good trade back partner at #17. Precisely because everyone knows tge talent at 16-60 is relatively flat. The same dynamic is in play at #49. And you don't get much for moving down in Rd3 (though we still could).

The only reasons to pay a premium to trade up are if a stud guy falls or if the team is desperate to fill a need and falls in love with a prospect. 

In the first instance, we would likely be interested in the player falling (Warren, Walker, Johnson, Membou, W. Campbell, etc). Maybe Jeanty or Loveland or a WR would work for us. 

I do think vet bargains and late cuts in FA are realistic. I'd love to get Trey done. With Tee, Chase, & Trey all locked up, we become a much more attractive destination for a vet to chase a ring. 

When have the Bengals made a trade during the draft? Last I recall was the ludicrous move they made to trade up for Ryanfinley.

They’re not trading back or up or sideways. Takes too much thought and thinking is hard.

[sandwedge]

(Yesterday, 02:19 PM)Whatever Wrote: Going to be tough to take a 3 tech early unless it's a clear BPA situation.  We're likely going to see Hill back at 3 tech and rotating with Jenkins while Slayton rotates with Jackson at NT.  Improvement from Jenkins and Jackson combined with BJ having shown he's a more effective rusher in the past when rotated heavily to keep him fresh is probably what they bank on.

I would like to still see a DT picked. Last season Rankins and Hill were injured at the same time and then Jenkins and Jackson both were hurt during TC. We ended up playing Tuefele and some guy that was sitting on his couch. 

[George Cantstandya]

(Yesterday, 04:27 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: When have the Bengals made a trade during the draft? Last I recall was the ludicrous move they made to trade up for Ryanfinley.

They’re not trading back or up or sideways. Takes too much thought and thinking is hard.

2023 Bengals traded down from the 92nd pick to the 95th pick with the Chiefs. 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-full-details-on-every-draft-related-move-since-star

2022 they traded up twice:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-full-details-on-every-draft-related-move-since-star

2021 they traded down from the 38th pick with the Patriots:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-full-details-of-every-move

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(Yesterday, 04:57 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: 2023 Bengals traded down from the 92nd pick to the 95th pick with the Chiefs. 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-full-details-on-every-draft-related-move-since-star

2022 they traded up twice:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-full-details-on-every-draft-related-move-since-star

2021 they traded down from the 38th pick with the Patriots:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-full-details-of-every-move

Jackson Carman
Tyler Shelvin
D'Ante Smith
Jordan Battle
Brad Robbins
....on second thought, can we trade less?  

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(Yesterday, 04:53 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I would like to still see a DT picked. Last season Rankins and Hill were injured at the same time and then Jenkins and Jackson both were hurt during TC. We ended up playing Tuefele and some guy that was sitting on his couch. 

I would, too. But when I mock, I usually feel the best available DTs at #17 (Nolen, Harmon, Grant) are a bit of a reach. Either a better player at another spot drops (Warren, Walker, Johnson) or I think there is a better option at #17 (Emmanwori, J. Campbell, Loveland, Green). 

Plus, I want a starter at #17. And as much as we need interior pass rush, blowing the #1 on a rotational level guy (for this year) when an impactful starter is available is hard to justify. 

The only times I have done it and felt good about it is when I traded down and got more picks. 

A lot of the good DTs are also run stuffers (Collins, Walker, Williams) and we have that covered with Slaton/Jackson. I take Alexander if he us tgere at #49, but he often isn't. After that, I get into round 3-4 for a DT quickly. And then there are good DEs, safeties, LBs, IOL, TEs, and corners. 

DT gets squeezed in my mocks often.

[sandwedge]

(Yesterday, 05:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I would, too. But when I mock, I usually feel the best available DTs at #17 (Nolen, Harmon, Grant) are a bit of a reach. Either a better player at another spot drops (Warren, Walker, Johnson) or I think there is a better option at #17 (Emmanwori, J. Campbell, Loveland, Green). 

Plus, I want a starter at #17. And as much as we need interior pass rush, blowing the #1 on a rotational level guy (for this year) when an impactful starter is available is hard to justify. 

The only times I have done it and felt good about it is when I traded down and got more picks. 

A lot of the good DTs are also run stuffers (Collins, Walker, Williams) and we have that covered with Slaton/Jackson. I take Alexander if he us tgere at #49, but he often isn't. After that, I get into round 3-4 for a DT quickly. And then there are good DEs, safeties, LBs, IOL, TEs, and corners. 

DT gets squeezed in my mocks often.

That is who I was specifically thinking about. I see he has been creeping up on draft boards, I had originally thought S, OG and then Alexander in the 3rd, but now it might be too late to grab him there.

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(Yesterday, 10:35 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: You forgot about Slaton 

I was talking 3T specifically. Slaton is purely a NT. NT was a need (we saw what happened last year when they failed to adequately replace DJ Reader) but so is a pass rushing 3T.

(Yesterday, 02:19 PM)Whatever Wrote: Going to be tough to take a 3 tech early unless it's a clear BPA situation.  We're likely going to see Hill back at 3 tech and rotating with Jenkins while Slayton rotates with Jackson at NT.  Improvement from Jenkins and Jackson combined with BJ having shown he's a more effective rusher in the past when rotated heavily to keep him fresh is probably what they bank on.

I hope the plan is for more than that. They do need more picks to fill all the holes but this is a position they valued enough to spend $6m+ on Larry Ogunjobi when they went to the Super Bowl. It was then enough of a need that they reached for Zach Carter in the third round in the 2022 draft after Ogunjobi left. When that didn’t work they then spent $26m in free agency in 2024 on Sheldon Rankins. Rankins was the 5th highest cap hit on the team last year. It would be quite the climb down to go from 5th highest cap hit to we don’t need a player who can do this.

[ERIC1]

(Yesterday, 09:36 AM)Synric Wrote: Bengals are doing alot of homework on this Linebacker class. It's probably a larger priority than Safety.

they are?

[*Synric*]

(8 hours ago)ERIC1 Wrote: they are?

Yes, they have met with four day 3 LBs already and that's just from ready available info. 

[RunKijanaRun]

(Yesterday, 04:57 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: 2023 Bengals traded down from the 92nd pick to the 95th pick with the Chiefs. 

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-full-details-on-every-draft-related-move-since-star

2022 they traded up twice:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-full-details-on-every-draft-related-move-since-star

2021 they traded down from the 38th pick with the Patriots:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-draft-trade-tracker-full-details-of-every-move

Mostly inconsequential. And they didn’t do well with any of them.

I would be shocked to see them trade a FRP.

[George Cantstandya]

(7 hours ago)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Mostly inconsequential. And they didn’t do well with any of them.

I would be shocked to see them trade a FRP.

You asked a question.  I simply answered it and then included other recent examples of when they traded during the draft.