(04-30-2025, 10:24 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: All I said was Mel Kiper agrees (Sandwedge trying to say something else, per usual); the Bengals had the worst draft. And also that it's not abnormal for the Bengals to draft poorly, tell me you disagree.
Their 2 best players were only received because they fielded one of the worst teams in football. This is not a stretch, they haven't won a superbowl lol.
Imagine not being critical of a team that has never won a superbowl, especially as a fan.
Duke Tobin's leash is too long, we have poor scouting department, Albert the D coordinator should not have a long leash either. Just killing Burrow's years.
I'm not saying we had a great draft or anything (though I feel better about the picks today then I did last week), but you're using the absolute worst person in the world to back up your opinion. It'd be like me saying capitalism is the best economic system in the world and then saying Karl Marx agrees with me (too extreme? lol)
That being said someone like Goodberry IS definitely a better source to use.
(05-01-2025, 11:49 AM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: Again, I'll take his opinion over anyone on this board & the Bengals FO, the same FO that turned down the Saints entire draft for Akili F!cking Smith. I get that Kiper is wrong quite a bit, but it's still what he does for a living. I honestly think the Bengals best pick ever was Geno & he was what a 4th rounder, I wish Marvin was our GM. He should've been moved from HC to defacto GM, but Mikey & family are the true experts of NFL football.
Honestly, I'll take almost anyone on this board's opinion over Mel frickin' Kiper.
Virtually no one liked our draft. And for good reason.
Ya'll should just accept the fact we stunk it up and stop feeling all butt hurt when we get called out on it.
Someone ranked all the draft grades from 24 different analysts. We finished dead last. Not one outlet went B+ or higher. Not. One. Two D-. It isn't a Kiper thing, it is a Tobin thing.
(05-01-2025, 01:17 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I get the sentiment and certainly any evaluator can be wrong. But there is or should be a bit more that goes into it than if they like a player or not. A grading system that you are holding all players to as well as using the consensus rankings to try and get value at each pick.
Take the Bengals draft whether you really like it, hate it or somewhere in the middle. They clearly drafted on need or let need effect there rankings. Which everyone always says we need to go best player available not need. Well the Bengals aren't doing that so I would say it doesn't look like a good process. May or may not work out but they have the 32nd rated draft for very good reason.
Should be but there isn't for 90%+ of them. Do you really think the majority of them put Goodberry's level of dedication to understanding the draft? And even with that it is still just an opinion. It's just click bait at this point, and nothing more.
(05-01-2025, 03:25 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Virtually no one liked our draft. And for good reason.
Ya'll should just accept the fact we stunk it up and stop feeling all butt hurt when we get called out on it.
Someone ranked all the draft grades from 24 different analysts. We finished dead last. Not one outlet went B+ or higher. Not. One. Two D-. It isn't a Kiper thing, it is a Tobin thing.
Why should we accept the results of the 2025 draft when no player has practiced or played a game? You maybe need to put on the breaks with this matter of fact opinions.
The draft is over and a couple of years from now, minimum of 2, but 3 better we can then give it a true grade.
We get it, you on on record our drafts sucks. You may be a genious or the draft may turn out to be average or better.
I respect your feellings while disagreeing, time you reaspect members who don't share your OPINION.
Please use 2025 free agency to fix the trenches, not the draft!!!!!!!!
I can work through my initial disappointment in the Stewart pick. And I’ve come to feel good about all the picks except Knight. I wish we just took Carter where we did and let that have been our lb target. Especially with them not having released Pratt yet. It just didn’t make sense with safety and pass rush DT as a need for them to be this focused on the LB’s. Including Free Agency.
I’m rooting for the old man but swapping out that pick for another need would have made a significant difference in how I’d view this draft after a week to process the class.
If you weren’t going to spend 4/5 of the 6 picks on a defense supposedly to be revamped after splurging on the Offemse, then it’s tough to double up on 1 position when you working with 3 picks.
Unless it was the Dline where the class was deep and you could get production in round 2.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
(05-01-2025, 08:02 PM)jj22 Wrote: I can work through my initial disappointment in the Stewart pick. And I’ve come to feel good about all the picks except Knight. I wish we just took Carter where we did and let that have been our lb target. Especially with them not having released Pratt yet. It just didn’t make sense with safety and pass rush DT as a need for them to be this focused on the LB’s. Including Free Agency.
I’m rooting for the old man but swapping out that pick for another need would have made a significant difference in how I’d view this draft after a week to process the class.
If you weren’t going to spend 4/5 of the 6 picks on a defense supposedly to be revamped after splurging on the Offemse, then it’s tough to double up on 1 position when you working with 3 picks.
Unless it was the Dline where the class was deep and you could get production in round 2.
I don't get the point of waiving Pratt now that there are virtually no quality FA's left. Ditto reatructuring Moss. The only spot you can get one is G,,and thatvisn't happening.
(05-02-2025, 12:33 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I don't get the point of waiving Pratt now that there are virtually no quality FA's left. Ditto reatructuring Moss. The only spot you can get one is G,,and thatvisn't happening.
You waive Pratt to pay Hendrickson. Besides, we don't need him anymore, we drafted Knight, who you all bash for being 25, but the man is fast and knows how to tackle. Anybody claiming this draft is a bust or a success is just projecting. We won't know for three years. Personally, I think this is going to turn out to be a fantastic draft. Stewart will become a wrecking machine, Knight will shore up LB play, Fairchild will take the left guard position and hold it. Between him and Zeus, Joe should not feel pressure from the blind side. The RB we drafted seems to have a lot of potential. But realistically, we won't know until we know.
(05-02-2025, 08:15 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You waive Pratt to pay Hendrickson. Besides, we don't need him anymore, we drafted Knight, who you all bash for being 25, but the man is fast and knows how to tackle. Anybody claiming this draft is a bust or a success is just projecting. We won't know for three years. Personally, I think this is going to turn out to be a fantastic draft. Stewart will become a wrecking machine, Knight will shore up LB play, Fairchild will take the left guard position and hold it. Between him and Zeus, Joe should not feel pressure from the blind side. The RB we drafted seems to have a lot of potential. But realistically, we won't know until we know.
I've watched South Carolina Gamecocks Defense vs ... on youtube desperate to see anything that could sell me on Knight and just don't see it in Knight from the actual game film. If you are watching highlights maybe you can sell yourself on the pick.... Certainly not a 2nd round grade. Certainly many more players that could have made a difference.
We needed a revamped defense this offseason to turn it around in the division, and while folks are trying to stretch the draft and adding TJ to make it seem like we got the revamped D we all said was needed at the close of the season, it just didn't happen.
I've sold myself on the other picks but just can't see it in Knight. I've tried. 3 picks on Defense, 2 LB's in the first 4 picks. Just not what anyone expected when dreaming of a revamped defense flushed with new talent heading into 2025. In one of the best dline draft classes in 2 decades.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
(05-02-2025, 12:33 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I don't get the point of waiving Pratt now that there are virtually no quality FA's left. Ditto reatructuring Moss. The only spot you can get one is G,,and thatvisn't happening.
Waiving 1 of the two playmakers on D who knows how to win big games, without doing much to build confidence that their playmaking skills or big game ability can be replaced is a gambe.
Do we want to be a team that can't make it past wild card weekend, divisional round? There are plenty "talented" teams that can't, and never do. Why? Because big game performers matters, and while teams have all the talent in the world, they don't have those players. We did in 2021-2022 on defense. You need 3-4. We can be down to 1 and if that happens there is no SB and we could easily be one of those teams that can't get past the divisional round. Easily. Even if we do have "talented" players on D.
Look no further than the "talented" Bills, Texans, Dolphins, Chargers, Ravens.... All talent, no players who know how to win big games.
You want a SB? We need to get the defense back up to having 3-4 of these players on both sides of the ball. Not 1, not even 2.... That's the key to SB's.
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
(04-30-2025, 10:40 AM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: So a guy who's made a living off evaluating talent for the NFL for 45 years can't be wrong? WTS, I don't like him & never have, but I'll take his opinion over anyone on this board.
I mostly agree....but he also threw a hissy fit over the Colts taking Marshall Faulk over Trent Dilfer. He's definitely not infallible.
(05-02-2025, 08:15 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You waive Pratt to pay Hendrickson. Besides, we don't need him anymore, we drafted Knight, who you all bash for being 25, but the man is fast and knows how to tackle. Anybody claiming this draft is a bust or a success is just projecting. We won't know for three years. Personally, I think this is going to turn out to be a fantastic draft. Stewart will become a wrecking machine, Knight will shore up LB play, Fairchild will take the left guard position and hold it. Between him and Zeus, Joe should not feel pressure from the blind side. The RB we drafted seems to have a lot of potential. But realistically, we won't know until we know.
So much all this. Rivers and Brooks were solid late. The Carter pick was my least favorite
Romo “ so impressed with Zac ...1 of the best in the NFL… they are just fundamentally sound. Taylor the best winning % in the Playoffs of current coaches. Joe Burrow” Zac is the best head coach in the NFL & that gives me a lot of confidence." Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en and appeared in Super Bowl LVI, the first since 1988.
(05-01-2025, 08:02 PM)jj22 Wrote: I can work through my initial disappointment in the Stewart pick. And I’ve come to feel good about all the picks except Knight. I wish we just took Carter where we did and let that have been our lb target. Especially with them not having released Pratt yet. It just didn’t make sense with safety and pass rush DT as a need for them to be this focused on the LB’s. Including Free Agency.
I’m rooting for the old man but swapping out that pick for another need would have made a significant difference in how I’d view this draft after a week to process the class.
If you weren’t going to spend 4/5 of the 6 picks on a defense supposedly to be revamped after splurging on the Offemse, then it’s tough to double up on 1 position when you working with 3 picks.
Unless it was the Dline where the class was deep and you could get production in round 2.
I've been reading that Golden will run his defense through the LBs instead of the safeties like Lou did. I also saw where may have packages with 4 LBs on the field. The pick(s) are making a little more sense now. I'm not the biggest fan of the draft....but I'm beginning to see the strategy. Whether it works or not is the question. He's also looking at DEs that can slide inside....hence the Stewart pick.
(05-01-2025, 08:17 AM)Synric Wrote: I like the players the Bengals drafted but because of how the Bengals forced themselves to draft I was likely never going to be happy with the results as a whole.
I will explain.
Goodberry is reporting that the Bengals draft board at #49 looked like (in the room with Lapham) Demetrius Knight > Tate Ratledge > Kevin Winston Jr > Barrett Carter. Which I won't even argue with how they had them stacked and the board is reasonable that is not the issue... The issue is they had a second round grade on Kevin Winston Jr but had to pass on him at #81 because they tied themselves into specific positions.
I will say it looks like the Bengals stacked the Linebacker class higher than most of the NFL. It was 26 picks between Knight and Nick Martin. 62 picks between Knight and Cody Simon. Bengals took Carter 4 picks after Simon. They were really high on the class.
My discontent isn't as much who they draft, it's always been more, their vision and what they perceive. Granted, it's their team and they can built it how they want but that doesn't mean i'm going to just trust them that it will all work out.
They obviously had a plan going in, with a new set of defensive coaches and a new Oline coach. Their plan wouldn't have been my plan based on how i see things but again, it's their team. There doesn't seem to be much--and by much i mean very little--concern on building an Oline that could better protect Burrow and i'm starting to think there's has to have been conversations with him where he's told them they don't need to spend big money on it, focus on other part, i.e., Chase and Tee and i'm sure he'd prefer a better defense.
They just always seem to be trying to re-invent the wheel when there's other championship team building examples out there.
"Hope is not a strategy"
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(05-02-2025, 10:41 AM)jj22 Wrote: I've watched South Carolina Gamecocks Defense vs ... on youtube desperate to see anything that could sell me on Knight and just don't see it in Knight from the actual game film. If you are watching highlights maybe you can sell yourself on the pick.... Certainly not a 2nd round grade. Certainly many more players that could have made a difference.
While I realize these are highlights, which don't include lowlights, what I see is a linebacker who once he makes contact, makes the tackle and is not carried 8-10 more yards downfield because he's yanking at the ball instead of wrapping up. While I like Pratt, and always have, his last two years he has cost us a lot of yards by not securing his tackle prior to attempting to punch the ball out. It seems once Knight makes contact, that's as far as the runner is going to go. I'll take it.
(05-02-2025, 11:58 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: My discontent isn't as much who they draft, it's always been more, their vision and what they perceive. Granted, it's their team and they can built it how they want but that doesn't mean i'm going to just trust them that it will all work out.
They obviously had a plan going in, with a new set of defensive coaches and a new Oline coach. Their plan wouldn't have been my plan based on how i see things but again, it's their team. There doesn't seem to be much--and by much i mean very little--concern on building an Oline that could better protect Burrow and i'm starting to think there's has to have been conversations with him where he's told them they don't need to spend big money on it, focus on other part, i.e., Chase and Tee and i'm sure he'd prefer a better defense.
They just always seem to be trying to re-invent the wheel when there's other championship team building examples out there.
Patrick and Fairchilds strengths are pass blocking. Pretty impressive. They’ve given up on a good running game. Joe says I can work around it
Romo “ so impressed with Zac ...1 of the best in the NFL… they are just fundamentally sound. Taylor the best winning % in the Playoffs of current coaches. Joe Burrow” Zac is the best head coach in the NFL & that gives me a lot of confidence." Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en and appeared in Super Bowl LVI, the first since 1988.
(05-02-2025, 12:54 PM)Sled21 Wrote: While I realize these are highlights, which don't include lowlights, what I see is a linebacker who once he makes contact, makes the tackle and is not carried 8-10 more yards downfield because he's yanking at the ball instead of wrapping up. While I like Pratt, and always have, his last two years he has cost us a lot of yards by not securing his tackle prior to attempting to punch the ball out. It seems once Knight makes contact, that's as far as the runner is going to go. I'll take it.
Germaine Pratt was a better tackler coming out of NC State then Demetrius Knight. It was Pratt's best overall trait while he didn't have alot of length he was like a magnetic to ball carriers and ALWAYS took the defender to the ground.
Knight has a better understanding of what's going on in front of him than Pratt did. As a former QB you can see him react to the checks/shifts and he also quickly recognizes the pass protection in front of him and triggers as a blitzer.
(05-01-2025, 08:17 AM)Synric Wrote: I like the players the Bengals drafted but because of how the Bengals forced themselves to draft I was likely never going to be happy with the results as a whole.
I will explain.
Goodberry is reporting that the Bengals draft board at #49 looked like (in the room with Lapham) Demetrius Knight > Tate Ratledge > Kevin Winston Jr > Barrett Carter. Which I won't even argue with how they had them stacked and the board is reasonable that is not the issue... The issue is they had a second round grade on Kevin Winston Jr but had to pass on him at #81 because they tied themselves into specific positions.
I will say it looks like the Bengals stacked the Linebacker class higher than most of the NFL. It was 26 picks between Knight and Nick Martin. 62 picks between Knight and Cody Simon. Bengals took Carter 4 picks after Simon. They were really high on the class.
Were the high on the LB class or were they high on their top 5 lb's nd not high on any ranked on their board after 5. I get the impression Knight and Carter were 4 and 5 on their board. You mention Winston a 2n round grade, it appears they also has a 2nd round grade on Carter.
Please use 2025 free agency to fix the trenches, not the draft!!!!!!!!
(05-02-2025, 11:27 AM)Wyche Wrote: I've been reading that Golden will run his defense through the LBs instead of the safeties like Lou did. I also saw where may have packages with 4 LBs on the field. The pick(s) are making a little more sense now. I'm not the biggest fan of the draft....but I'm beginning to see the strategy. Whether it works or not is the question. He's also looking at DEs that can slide inside....hence the Stewart pick.
I think he wants to slide Stewart inside to create havoc on both the run and the passing plays. He thinks he line Stewart up at any DL position. This gives him the ability to go after the opposing team's weakest OL.
It sounds like he is going to scheme this defense around Stewart. In the past we have drafted guys and forced them to get better at their weaknesses, I am hopeful much like the Ravens did on offesne with Lamar revamping the entire scheme for his strengths, I hope we do with Stewart.
Please use 2025 free agency to fix the trenches, not the draft!!!!!!!!
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