Geno Stone takes pay cut

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 12:32 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: They also structured the deals poorly. Chase/Higgins ended up eating extra cap because of the way tgey structured the bonuses, while still costing them the same amount of money. 

Over $10 mil in space. Again, this is $$ we paid out anyway. 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap-expert-reveals-cincinnati-bengals-two-key-mistakes-recent-extensions-jamarr-chase-tee-higgins

I have a hard time believing any FO could be so stupid. The "mistake" did not save them any money directly, but since they now have less cap space, they cannot reinvest that $11 mil back into the team. 

They then can pocket that $$$ and plead no cap space & get guys to take cuts (Moss, Stone). 

If the mistake is genuine, they are incompetent. If it isn't, they'd rather pocket the $$ than try to win a SB.

Pick one.

Yep. This FO has proven, time and time again, they're going to do things the way they want to do things, to hell with other proven avenues. 

[jj22]

(Yesterday, 12:32 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: They also structured the deals poorly. Chase/Higgins ended up eating extra cap because of the way tgey structured the bonuses, while still costing them the same amount of money. 

Over $10 mil in space. Again, this is $$ we paid out anyway. 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap-expert-reveals-cincinnati-bengals-two-key-mistakes-recent-extensions-jamarr-chase-tee-higgins

I have a hard time believing any FO could be so stupid. The "mistake" did not save them any money directly, but since they now have less cap space, they cannot reinvest that $11 mil back into the team. 

They then can pocket that $$$ and plead no cap space & get guys to take cuts (Moss, Stone). 

If the mistake is genuine, they are incompetent. If it isn't, they'd rather pocket the $$ than try to win a SB.

Pick one.

They structure deals like this so that they can say they spent up to the cap. They don't have the cash on hand to really spend so this is how they can claim they spend up tot he cap every year even if they can structure differently to sign more players. They don't have the cash on hand to sign more players, and this gives them their "out" (excuse). 

[Lucius Cincinnatus]

(05-06-2025, 07:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We get Trey extended and add another Guard like Risner or Scherff and I am happy with this Offseason for sure.

Bottom line we didn't lose anybody essential to our success.

What success lately? 

[phil413]

(Yesterday, 01:27 PM)jj22 Wrote: They structure deals like this so that they can say they spent up to the cap. They don't have the cash on hand to really spend so this is how they can claim they spend up tot he cap every year even if they can structure differently to sign more players. They don't have the cash on hand to sign more players, and this gives them their "out" (excuse). 

Yeah in Tobins big presser weeks before these deals someone asked if they would consider restructuring Burrow to fee up money.  He was so opposed to that word you'd think it was a swear word which it probably is in the Brown family.  

I guess we should be happy they got the deals done and have the team here, but thankfully they don't slap us in the face with it like Reds ownership has. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-06-2025, 08:53 PM)XsandOs Wrote: This!

If you had told me in January that we would sign Chase AND Tee, pay Gisecki and pay Hill - I would have questioned your sanity.

With the draft picks, extending Trey and signing a G would complete the quasi rebuild. 

As much as the negative people hate this Offseason, it would of been much worse if we lost all those guys and they cannot argue with that.

(05-06-2025, 09:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're right, all they've really done is cheapen the payroll with equal or lesser talent. Let's hope that this draft knocked it out of the park.. 

Tee was the top FA this Offseason, BJ Hill was a top DT in FA this Offseason, Mike G could be argued was a top pass catcher etc.

Would of sucked to lose all of these guys is all I am saying. Adding Slaton helps as we needed a NT, adding Burks a solid vet was a good 
move, same with adding Perine on Offense who is proven. Patrick is proven when he is healthy to be an upgrade over Cappa.

If we can extend Trey and add a Guard and maybe even a Safety I find this to be a productive Offseason. Shemar Stewart is an immense 
talent and with the new coaches on Defense and for the OL we don't know how much this team can improve this year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-06-2025, 08:21 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Hopefully this leads to an extension for Trey.
I gave up hoping for another guard. They signed Patrick and drafted Fairchild so they are probably thinking they are set for the IOL.
I really hope they surprise me and sign another Guard but I just don’t see it happening.

Probably right Clark, we will see. I like the restructures of Moss and especially Stone though. At least get Trey extended.

(05-06-2025, 08:25 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good point, Nate. As much as many disliked our outside FA plan/draft plan to roster building, myself included, it is important to remember, we did not loose any big oieces, either.

Hilton is the biggest, and he is still looking for work. ADG & Bell would be next. I don't really count Cappa, Rankins, and Hubbard as losses.  

Yes, IMHO, we messed up the roster build going forward. But we did do a good to very good job of keeping our good players here: Tee, Chase, BJ Hill, Gesicki, Ossai, etc. 

At least we didn't go backwards. 

That is a C offseason, though. Not completely over yet, either. 

Thanks Ike.

I am not over the moon with this FA, but we didn't regress thankfully, all those players we lost shouldn't hurt us and the ones we kept are 
really good players. I know you don't care for the Draft but Golden got his guys, same with the rest of the coaches, we will see what they 
are able to do with them. I still think coaching was our biggest problem last season.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 12:32 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: They also structured the deals poorly. Chase/Higgins ended up eating extra cap because of the way tgey structured the bonuses, while still costing them the same amount of money. 

Over $10 mil in space. Again, this is $$ we paid out anyway. 

https://athlonsports.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap-expert-reveals-cincinnati-bengals-two-key-mistakes-recent-extensions-jamarr-chase-tee-higgins

I have a hard time believing any FO could be so stupid. The "mistake" did not save them any money directly, but since they now have less cap space, they cannot reinvest that $11 mil back into the team. 

They then can pocket that $$$ and plead no cap space & get guys to take cuts (Moss, Stone). 

If the mistake is genuine, they are incompetent. If it isn't, they'd rather pocket the $$ than try to win a SB.

Pick one.

I say you need to read and understand the bolded is false. This is from the OPINION ARTCLE YOU POSTED. This contracts were structured to pay more money in 2025, but that means less in future years. They still have over 20 million left right now in cap space, still money to extend Trey if they can come to an agreement. It seens to me they had a great plan and executed it. Fans want us to tear up Trey's contract because he outplayed it which is fine. It works the same way in reverse, guys that were overpaid should be looked at to take pay cuts. You wanted more free agents, maybe your plan was not their plan.

"However, in their pursuit of extending its stars, Cincinnati left some meat on the bone of its 2025 cap savings, and it could cost the team a meaningful free agent or two in the coming weeks."

[XsandOs]

(Yesterday, 02:11 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: What success lately? 

Having gone through the lost decade of 90s and no playoff wins in the 20 years after turn of Century, your comment actually makes me happy. I am happy that even with a SB and 2 AFC Championship game appearances and no losing season in the past 4 years, our expectations have elevated and we want more.

But is is important to note that the Chase, Tee, Hill, Gisecki signings/extensions are necessary for our future success. With the exception of Gisecki, the other three were instrumental to our SB and AFC Championship games. 

And I believe that is what Nate was referring to. 

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 02:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: As much as the negative people hate this Offseason, it would of been much worse if we lost all those guys and they cannot argue with that.


Tee was the top FA this Offseason, BJ Hill was a top DT in FA this Offseason, Mike G could be argued was a top pass catcher etc.

Would of sucked to lose all of these guys is all I am saying. Adding Slaton helps as we needed a NT, adding Burks a solid vet was a good 
move, same with adding Perine on Offense who is proven. Patrick is proven when he is healthy to be an upgrade over Cappa.

If we can extend Trey and add a Guard and maybe even a Safety I find this to be a productive Offseason. Shemar Stewart is an immense 
talent and with the new coaches on Defense and for the OL we don't know how much this team can improve this year.

FO is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

In addition to the bolded they also locked up the best WR in fottball long term.

Also, I think they may extend Trey, not just a small feat, he will command big bucks.

First we heard no way they can afford to pay Chase and Tee,
Then it was we can't afford to extend Trey because we took care of Chase and Tee.

Now appears to be very good chance they extend Trey too?

Fans would be jumping off cllffs if we did not extend Chase or Tee. Some are going off if we don't extend Trey.

I think when we look back at 2025 off season, we will not be so unhappy as this team enters back into the playoffs this year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 03:09 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: FO is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

In addition to the bolded they also locked up the best WR in fottball long term.

Also, I think they may extend Trey, not just a small feat, he will command big bucks.

First we heard no way they can afford to pay Chase and Tee,
Then it was we can't afford to extend Trey because we took care of Chase and Tee.

Now appears to be very good chance they extend Trey too?

Fans would be jumping off cllffs if we did not extend Chase or Tee. Some are going off if we don't extend Trey.

I think when we look back at 2025 off season, we will not be so unhappy as this team enters back into the playoffs this year.

Some are negative no matter what and that is okay. I understand Rfaulk and why he likes to give the FO shit.

But if you told me we got all this done this Offseason and extended Trey I wouldn't believe it. I thought we were going to trade one of Tee or Trey.

Ja'Marr being the highest paid non-QB happened even after Myles got his huge deal.

[higgy100]

(Yesterday, 02:11 PM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: What success lately? 

You need to learn what essential means.

[jj22]

BJ could have been replaced via the draft and that money could have went elsewhere (Guard, LB) freeing up the draft to draft a position that was deep instead of doubling up on positions that were weak.

Tobin preached that we held on to the SB defense too long and holding on to BJ was doubling down on that mistake. They should have managed FA to leave the draft to draft the positions it was deep in. Especially with only 6 picks. 

They never get this right. Last year they doubled up on TE in a weak draft class for TE's after ignoring TE in the strongest draft class for them a year before. They ignored RB in a deep RB class last year..... while doubling up on DT's in a weak DT class last year..... Doubled up on LB's this draft in a weak LB class.... They really struggle to get this right and their draft for need philosophy everyone knows is a flawed draft approach (and why they've failed to draft for so many years).

To come out of FA and the draft with still so many holes leading up to the season can only be considered a failure. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 03:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Some are negative no matter what and that is okay. I understand Rfaulk and why he likes to give the FO shit.

But if you told me we got all this done this Offseason and extended Trey I wouldn't believe it. I thought we were going to trade one of Tee or Trey.

Ja'Marr being the highest paid non-QB happened even after Myles got his huge deal.

I would never deny they deserve credit for "keeping their own". It's not shiney and doesn't really make a splash but lots of fans underplay it. 

I give shit where it's due and sometimes get thrown in the fire with others who maybe ***** different than me but i don't really stress cause, in the famous words of J.E. Lawrence, "it is what it is". 

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 03:48 PM)jj22 Wrote: BJ could have been replaced via the draft and that money could have went elsewhere (Guard, LB) freeing up the draft to draft a position that was deep instead of doubling up on positions that were weak.

Tobin preached that we held on to the SB defense too long and holding on to BJ was doubling down on that mistake. They should have managed FA to leave the draft to draft the positions it was deep in. Especially with only 6 picks. 

They never get this right. Last year they doubled up on TE in a weak draft class for TE's after ignoring TE in the strongest draft class for them a year before. They ignored RB in a deep RB class last year..... while doubling up on DT's in a weak DT class last year..... Doubled up on LB's this draft in a weak LB class.... They really struggle to get this right and their draft for need philosophy everyone knows is a flawed draft approach (and why they've failed to draft for so many years).

To come out of FA and the draft with still so many holes leading up to the season can only be considered a failure. 

I am a little confused. You answer is to not sign BJ Hill and then draft a rookie to win now. You mentioned it was a mistake drafting 2 DT's last year, but then trust them this season.

I am glad you are not making decisons. The biggest mistake the Bengals made in 2024 was not the drafting of 2 DT's who have different strengths and weaknesses. It was signing Rankins to replace Reader. Rankins and Hill are 2 similar tackles, bad move period. Then of course our luck not one but both Hill and Rankins get hurt, one rookie plying with a cast and the other injures in a knee in TC.

They got it right in 2021 after a 4 win season and almost got back to the Super bowl in 2022. Let's stop the BS using the word never.

[jj22]

(Yesterday, 04:19 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am a little confused. You answer is to not sign BJ Hill and then draft a rookie to win now. You mentioned it was a mistake drafting 2 DT's last year, but then trust them this season. With the deep DT draft class. 

I am glad you are not making decisons. Why because I'd use the draft to draft positions that are deep and not use multiple picks on positions that are weak? The biggest mistake the Bengals made in 2024 was not the drafting of 2 DT's who have different strengths and weaknesses. It was signing Rankins to replace Reader. Rankins and Hill are 2 similar tackles, bad move period. Then of course our luck not one but both Hill and Rankins get hurt, one rookie plying with a cast and the other injures in a knee in TC.

They got it right in 2021 after a 4 win season and almost got back to the Super bowl in 2022. Let's stop the BS using the word never. There is a saying about a broke clock....

You completely missed my point. This is about taking advantage of positions of strength in draft classes. Something they have failed to do. 

[jj22]

Instead of double dipping on DT for need in a weak draft last year, they should have put some effort into FA DT's instead of a rebound hire in Rankins because once again their approach is not to sign a FA until they are out of the running with their FA's. Proactive and not reactive. That reactive approach leads to and has always lead to failure.

Once they realize they can't re-sign their own, they are left with scraps in FA. And thus that is how you get the Rankins, Scotts, Owens of the FA classes. 

[Joelist]

(Yesterday, 04:19 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am a little confused. You answer is to not sign BJ Hill and then draft a rookie to win now. You mentioned it was a mistake drafting 2 DT's last year, but then trust them this season.

I am glad you are not making decisons. The biggest mistake the Bengals made in 2024 was not the drafting of 2 DT's who have different strengths and weaknesses. It was signing Rankins to replace Reader. Rankins and Hill are 2 similar tackles, bad move period. Then of course our luck not one but both Hill and Rankins get hurt, one rookie plying with a cast and the other injures in a knee in TC.

They got it right in 2021 after a 4 win season and almost got back to the Super bowl in 2022. Let's stop the BS using the word never.

Yeah. The main issue was not signing Rankins per se it was trying to go into a season with Lou's defense with no NT. And yes the injury luck on the IDL was really bad (remember us having to run Lawrence Guy out there because we couldn't suit up enough DTs ?). Well they fixed the NT issue with Slaton. Both Jenkins and Jackson flashed good play last season even despite limited snaps. Now add in that Lou got fired over taking 12 games to simplify his defense, and that Golden favors more 3 LB looks among other things and I am cool with them giving Golden what he asks for to run his scheme. 

[WeezyBengal]

So Stone was a guy they said they believed in and expecting him to start, yet they are asking him to take a pay cut of...1.5 million dollars.

And then they do nothing to address safety in either free agency or the draft. Sounds good, guys.

The 1.5 million has nothing to do with a Hendrickson extension. The cap money is there. This is the Bengals pinching pennies.

[Luvnit2]

(Yesterday, 05:14 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: So Stone was a guy they said they believed in and expecting him to start, yet they are asking him to take a pay cut of...1.5 million dollars.

And then they do nothing to address safety in either free agency or the draft. Sounds good, guys.

The 1.5 million has nothing to do with a Hendrickson extension. The cap money is there. This is the Bengals pinching pennies.

It gets old the lies being told in the forum. There are 32 teams in the NFL, the Bengals have spent the 12th most money in cash in 2025.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cash/yearly

Do the math, they spent 284,550 in 2025. The cap for 2025 was 279,200. In cash the team spent more than the salary cap.

19 other NFL teams spent less than the cap in cash.

Why do some of you beat the same drum and keep missing a beat?

[*Au165*]

(Yesterday, 04:49 PM)jj22 Wrote: Instead of double dipping on DT for need in a weak draft last year, they should have put some effort into FA DT's instead of a rebound hire in Rankins because once again their approach is not to sign a FA until they are out of the running with their FA's. Proactive and not reactive. That reactive approach leads to and has always lead to failure.

Once they realize they can't re-sign their own, they are left with scraps in FA. And thus that is how you get the Rankins, Scotts, Owens of the FA classes. 

Hindsight is 20/20 but....everyone was super interested in us signing Christian Wilkins. Had we done that everyone would have proclaimed we were amazing and were all in on free agency. The dude hurt his foot early in the year missed all but 5 games and there is serious concern he may need another surgery and miss another chunk of this upcoming season. The Raiders have a TON of money now sunk in a guy who may never really deliver any value and they can't get out of that deal for at least one more year. Major foot injuries on big guys approaching 30 are usually death sentences. 

The right plan is the plan that works. The wrong plan is the one that doesn't. Very few ever go back though and talk about the consensus "right plans" that didn't work either because they are too busy harping on our plan that was wrong here. Right now, we still probably have a better chance of getting value out of the two DT's we drafted last year than the Raiders do of getting Value out of Wilkins. We will see what happens but had we taken and connected on the biggest possible swing at DT last year we still would have been screwed so I think it's kind of tough to look at it as if there was an "easy" answer.