The Good, Bad, and Fugly; Preseason Game 1

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 09:20 AM)jj22 Wrote: The good

Burrow
Starting Oline
New inside zone Run Game
Chase
Kicking operations
Tackling

The bad

Dline,
Secondary,
Situational football (giving up points and big returns at half)
Rookie Defenders outside of Barrett sack.

The fugly
Browning

The Good: Burrow, the starting OL, Ja'Marr Chase and Chase Brown. McPherson looking like his rookie self. Tackling was better than what 
we saw last year. McKinnley Jackson with 2 TFL's and good push up the middle. The Return game with Burton and Brightwell. That Mayes
WR with the long catch. Hudson was good all night, he makes the team after that.

The Bad: DJ Ivey, Kris Jenkins didn't do anything from what I saw. Same with Knight and Logan where they allowed that big run for Will 
Shipley. Ridder I know had the 2 nice throws, one to Mayes and the TD to Hudson, but he was highly inaccurate. Browning had the terrible
interception and looked pretty bad alright. 

The Fugly: ST's in limiting Returns, specifically Anius Smith who is a stud. DJ Ivey was just fugly, no way around it.

[*pally*]

(Yesterday, 01:41 PM)Synric Wrote: Any word on Geno Stone?

no and that may be good news. Usually the really serious stuff leaks.  We should find out more tomorrow when they return to practice

[*bfine32*]

Thoughts:

Cam Sample was the best DE on the field and that's not good

Loved the leadership Slayton showed. If you watched the game he was in Fairchild's face firing him up

I wasn't impressed w/ Lucas but 1-game and Karras mentioned how much he helps the room with his attitude

I can see Charlie Jones challenging Yoshi for the 3rd most snaps at WR. I think it will depend on if we want to see Chase more on the boundary or in the slot

Gameday Forum was in mid-season form.

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 01:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: Last night began to answer the question of if it's the coaching (defensive) or players....

Except that it didn't because there were several starters out and we don't know if, because of this, Golden decided to dial it down and just keep everything in front of them. Did anyone else see how far the CBs were playing off, even inside the 30?

Granted, regardless of the intent, i'm sure he wasn't happy at all but you can't take anything away from last night other than the guys in the back who are fighting for playing time need to step it up big time because they couldn't stop anything last night. 

[*bfine32*]

(Yesterday, 04:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Thoughts:

Cam Sample was the best DE on the field and that's not good

Loved the leadership Slayton showed. If you watched the game he was in Fairchild's face firing him up

I wasn't impressed w/ Lucas but 1-game and Karras mentioned how much he helps the room with his attitude

I can see Charlie Jones challenging Yoshi  for the 3rd most snaps at WR. I think it will depend on if we want to see Chase more on the boundary or in the slot

Gameday Forum was in mid-season form.

Oh yeah,

I had high hopes for Ivey, those were crushed last night. 

[*PhilHos*]

(Yesterday, 04:06 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Except that it didn't because there were several starters out and we don't know if, because of this, Golden decided to dial it down and just keep everything in front of them. Did anyone else see how far the CBs were playing off, even inside the 30?

Granted, regardless of the intent, i'm sure he wasn't happy at all but you can't take anything away from last night other than the guys in the back who are fighting for playing time need to step it up big time because they couldn't stop anything last night. 

4 things that are always inevitable: death, taxes, Thanos, and people reading too much into 1 preseason game.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 04:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Thoughts:

Cam Sample was the best DE on the field and that's not good

Loved the leadership Slayton showed. If you watched the game he was in Fairchild's face firing him up

I wasn't impressed w/ Lucas but 1-game and Karras mentioned how much he helps the room with his attitude

I can see Charlie Jones challenging Yoshi  for the 3rd most snaps at WR. I think it will depend on if we want to see Chase more on the boundary or in the slot

Gameday Forum was in mid-season form.

Thought I saw Cam Sample doing some good things. Nice observations Bfine. Lucas had the penalty that always hurts, Fairchild 
had some good run blocking for Chase Brown.

(Yesterday, 04:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh yeah,

I had high hopes for Ivey, those were crushed last night. 

He was playing so soft in coverage and was just getting beat like a drum over and over. Agree, but this is also on the coaching.

As Rfaulk said, they were pretty much playing prevent, no aggressiveness whatsoever. The losing way. This is what I didn't like 
about Lou and how he was using CTB last season. Hope this ends soon under Golden.

(Yesterday, 04:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: 4 things that are always inevitable: death, taxes, Thanos, and people reading too much into 1 preseason game.

True words Phil.

[*Synric*]

(Yesterday, 04:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Thoughts:

Cam Sample was the best DE on the field and that's not good

Loved the leadership Slayton showed. If you watched the game he was in Fairchild's face firing him up

I wasn't impressed w/ Lucas but 1-game and Karras mentioned how much he helps the room with his attitude

I can see Charlie Jones challenging Yoshi  for the 3rd most snaps at WR. I think it will depend on if we want to see Chase more on the boundary or in the slot

Gameday Forum was in mid-season form.

Shemar Stewart was as expected disruptive but balance and body control showed up was on he's knees a few times. Lack of hand experience cost him a sack on a club move.

Dylan Fairchild and Ted Karras are rhe only OL two that play with physicality. Fairchild probably had the 3rd best night behind Chase and Burrow. (I'd guess Chase, Burrow, Fairchild, Brown, then Brooks are your top 5 for the day with a shout out to Hudson for being Hudson.)

Tahj Brooks with a couple nice runs and even more important at least two really good pass pro reps

DBs lived in alot of man coverage and the Eagles took advantage of how slow DJ Ivey looked.

Kris Jenkisn looked solid

McKinnley Jackson had a nice night against the 3s after making a mistake vs the 2s.

Jalen Rivers struggled badly at both tackle spots vs Antwan Powell-Ryland.




Edit: As for rhe defense as a whole you could tell they weren't ready for expanded rush offense compared to the Bengals (no game plan and no pre-scouting). The C gap runs really gashed them.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 04:33 PM)Synric Wrote: Shemar Stewart was as expected disruptive but balance and body control showed up was on he's knees a few times. Lack of hand experience cost him a sack on a club move.

Dylan Fairchild and Ted Karras are rhe only OL two that play with physicality. Fairchild probably had the 3rd best night behind Chase and Burrow. (I'd guess Chase, Burrow, Fairchild, Brown, then Brooks are your top 5 for the day with a shout out to Hudson for being Hudson.)

Tahj Brooks with a couple nice runs and even more important at least two really good pass pro reps

DBs lived in alot of man coverage and the Eagles took advantage of how slow DJ Ivey looked.

Kris Jenkisn looked solid

McKinnley Jackson had a nice night against the 3s after making a mistake vs the 2s.

Jalen Rivers struggled badly at both tackle spots vs Antwan Powell-Ryland.




Edit: As for rhe defense as a whole you could tell they weren't ready for expanded rush offense compared to the Bengals (no game plan and no pre-scouting). The C gap runs really gashed them.

Too bad the OL had the penalty on the one Tahj run, I thought he was about to really get going. Glad you thought Kris Jenkins looked
solid, I saw one good run stop but that was it and thought he got owned a few times. True on Jalen Rivers, he struggled.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

I rewatched the 1st team snaps twice (thank you NFL Network for the replay) and from that 1st team interior oline, I saw Karras get beaten once (otherwise was great), Patrick have one bad snap, one mediocre and one penalty (which was bogus, otherwise he was great too) and Fairchild have just one rough snap.

They were all really in-sync for a 1st PS game and seeing Fairchild pull was nice as well, I'm not worried at all about the iOL. Have to rewatch again to see The Ts, but from what I saw, they were fine, Mims looked good.

Want to see Fairchild against bonafide starters though: still think he will be superb, but that is the final litmus test.

[007BengalsFan]

(Yesterday, 01:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: Last night began to answer the question of if it's the coaching (defensive) or players....

It's never been a question for me.  Im not sure how people havent been able to see its a lack on talent.  Outside of Hendrickson, the defensive line cant generate pressure on the opposing QBs and they get pushed around on run plays.  Did anyone really think the problem was Lou and his staff didnt know how to coach these guys?  Then you have people blaming Lou for not playing Murphy more as if Murphy was the solution to improving the defense.  There is a reason Lou didnt play Murphy more.  Its because Murphy isnt that good.  In the secondary you had the problem of them not being able to play man coverage because they consistently got burnt when Lou tried man coverage.  In zone, they struggled with reads and assignments.  This was too "complicated" for the secondary.  Its all excuses from some to justify the lack of talent and poor play.   

These are the same guys on defense people are counting on this year.  If they couldnt understand and execute Lou's defensive scheme, why would anyone think they could understand and execute Golden's defensive scheme?  The reality is there is a lack of talent on defense and no matter who the coordinator is, the defense is not going to be good.  I think the Bengals will end up having a better defense this year because the team has added some talent to it vs last year plus these guys have another year of NFL experience and should grow.  I dont however think they are anywhere close to being good.   Last year Lou had the #25 scoring defense.  I think we improve a few spots to around #20, give or take a couple of spots but still a bottom half NFL defense.

[BacknDaDey]

I could not believe how horrible Browning looked last night. It was like he never had any reps during practices.

[007BengalsFan]

(Yesterday, 04:33 PM)Synric Wrote: Jalen Rivers struggled badly at both tackle spots vs Antwan Powell-Ryland.

Rivers was horrible.  He cant be the plan as the #2 swing tackle or Burrow will get killed with him out there.  He looked way too slow.  Its no wonder every other team saw him as a guard in the NFL.  If the Bengals run Rivers out there at any time this season to play tackle, its not going to end well.  Cody Ford looked better at tackle last year.  I thought the best looking tackle in preseason last year was actually Kirkland.  I would like to see him get some snaps there the next couple of preseason games because Rivers isnt the answer as #2

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 04:43 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I rewatched the 1st team snaps twice (thank you NFL Network for the replay) and from that 1st team interior oline, I saw Karras get beaten once (otherwise was great), Patrick have one bad snap, one mediocre and one penalty (which was bogus, otherwise he was great too) and Fairchild have just one rough snap.

They were all really in-sync for a 1st PS game and seeing Fairchild pull was nice as well, I'm not worried at all about the iOL. Have to rewatch again to see The Ts, but from what I saw, they were fine, Mims looked good.

Want to see Fairchild against bonafide starters though: still think he will be superb, but that is the final litmus test.

Nice observations Truck. This is great news, I thought we would be better on the IOL this season, the question was how much. Bottom line
is that Patrick and Fairchild are upgrades over Cappa and Volson. This helps out Ted and the Tackles. Was also nice seeing Mims out there 
doing his thing without even a hand wrap. Agree, need to see Fairchild against bona fide starters before we can really tell, but he is a rookie
and we have to expect some struggles, but he will get better.

Did anyone watch Ratledge play yet? We have to have our Georgia Guard comparisons.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 04:44 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: It's never been a question for me.  Im not sure how people havent been able to see its a lack on talent.  Outside of Hendrickson, the defensive line cant generate pressure on the opposing QBs and they get pushed around on run plays.  Did anyone really think the problem was Lou and his staff didnt know how to coach these guys?  Then you have people blaming Lou for not playing Murphy more as if Murphy was the solution to improving the defense.  There is a reason Lou didnt play Murphy more.  Its because Murphy isnt that good.  In the secondary you had the problem of them not being able to play man coverage because they consistently got burnt when Lou tried man coverage.  In zone, they struggled with reads and assignments.  This was too "complicated" for the secondary.  Its all excuses from some to justify the lack of talent and poor play.   

These are the same guys on defense people are counting on this year.  If they couldnt understand and execute Lou's defensive scheme, why would anyone think they could understand and execute Golden's defensive scheme?  The reality is there is a lack of talent on defense and no matter who the coordinator is, the defense is not going to be good.  I think the Bengals will end up having a better defense this year because the team has added some talent to it vs last year plus these guys have another year of NFL experience and should grow.  I dont however think they are anywhere close to being good.   Last year Lou had the #25 scoring defense.  I think we improve a few spots to around #20, give or take a couple of spots but still a bottom half NFL defense.

I just don't get your thoughts here. Murphy was a 1st round pick, Stewart was a 1st round pick, Kris Jenkins was a 2nd round pick, Ossai was
a 3rd round pick, Knight was a 2nd round pick, Logan was a 3rd round pick I could go on and on. There is talent on this Defense, it just needs 
to be coached up and harnessed. Montgomery needs to work with these guys to get the most out of them. 

Was a very good test against the Eagles OL that is coached by one of the best OL coaches.

Quit defending the failure of Lou's Defenses and give Golden and these new coaches a chance. Don't give up on the young talent either and just
act like they are schlubs that no other team would ever draft.

[007BengalsFan]

(Yesterday, 04:06 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Except that it didn't because there were several starters out and we don't know if, because of this, Golden decided to dial it down and just keep everything in front of them. Did anyone else see how far the CBs were playing off, even inside the 30?

We had 4 starters that didnt play, BJ, Trey, Dax and Cam.  Most of the starting defense played and the 4 that didnt play were backed up by guys on the team that are expected to play a lot and contribute to the defense.  This wasnt the practice squad out there looking bad.  And why would Golden have his guys play so far off the ball if he is trying to get these guys ready for the regular season.  Are they going to be playing that far off the ball in regular season?  Just keep everything in front so you dont get beat deep?  Thats what you do with a secondary that lacks talent.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(Yesterday, 05:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice observations Truck. This is great news, I thought we would be better on the IOL this season, the question was how much. Bottom line
is that Patrick and Fairchild are upgrades over Cappa and Volson. This helps out Ted and the Tackles. Was also nice seeing Mims out there 
doing his thing without even a hand wrap. Agree, need to see Fairchild against bona fide starters before we can really tell, but he is a rookie
and we have to expect some struggles, but he will get better.

Did anyone watch Ratledge play yet? We have to have our Georgia Guard comparisons.

At the risk of being the poo-poo'er (who me? NEVER) I don't think a single one of the Eagles starting DL or OLBs played.

I think the only three positions on defense for the Eagles where potential starters played are one of the ILB spots, one of the CB spots, and one of the S spots because all three are currently still in a competition to determine the starter. Everyone else were backups.

[*PhilHos*]

(Yesterday, 05:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I just don't get your thoughts here. Murphy was a 1st round pick, Stewart was a 1st round pick, Kris Jenkins was a 2nd round pick, Ossai was
a 3rd round pick, Knight was a 2nd round pick, Logan was a 3rd round pick I could go on and on. There is talent on this Defense, it just needs 
to be coached up and harnessed. Montgomery needs to work with these guys to get the most out of them. 

Was a very good test against the Eagles OL that is coached by one of the best OL coaches.

Quit defending the failure of Lou's Defenses and give Golden and these new coaches a chance. Don't give up on the young talent either and just
act like they are schlubs that no other team would ever draft.

2 things can be true at one time: we need better talent on defense AND Lou was not getting the most out of the players - especially the younger ones. I would've liked to have seen more than just Slayton signed on the DL (in terms of outsitde FAs) but I'm also glad Golden is here and excited to see what he can do.

[007BengalsFan]

(Yesterday, 04:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: 4 things that are always inevitable: death, taxes, Thanos, and people reading too much into 1 preseason game.

If we hadn't already seen this play out the last two seasons with most of these same guys on defense you might have a point but we have seen this movie before.  I can tell you it doesn't end well.

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 05:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: At the risk of being the poo-poo'er (who me? NEVER) I don't think a single one of the Eagles starting DL or OLBs played.

The Eagles do seem to be really deep. But it was concerning that they still seemed to get some pressure mainly from Patrick is believe. Also I thought the lack of pressure was discouraging although Murphy and Stewart had some close ones.