Reminder 2024 Pass Blocking

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 11:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: When Patrick was signed some of us tried to say that this was a bad move. As a 3rd Guard...its a good move.

Thinking Ford is a quality starter is bad too.

Thinking Nick Scott or Stone could replace Jessie Bates was a bad move.

The DT we signed from GB...has no pass rush skills.

The backup LB from the Eagles that's in his early 30s...won't be a quality starter.

I could go on and on...

This was funny because that DT Slayton I heard the same thing. But hes been getting regular pressure going against Patrick. 

[*jason*]

(Yesterday, 10:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Should we stop trying to fix it? 

No... We should try harder. Hope, could, and if aren't getting it done.

[*jason*]

(Yesterday, 10:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. They’ve been trying to fix the OL for a literal decade. The Ogbuehi and Fisher draft was 10 years ago at this point. You’d think they would have stumbled their way into a good lineman or two in that timeframe.

But hey, Lucas Patrick and Cody Ford, amirite?!

I think we have something with Mims. He's athletic at the very least.

[*bfine32*]

(Yesterday, 11:54 PM)jason Wrote: No... We should try harder. Hope, could, and if aren't getting it done.

Do I need to list all the moves they've made in the last 5 years to attempt to improve the oline? I'm not sure how much harder they could try. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(Today, 12:01 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Do I need to list all the moves they've made in the last 5 years to attempt to improve the oline? I'm not sure how much harder they could try. 

Hiring more scouts seems like the obvious answer. They recently added 2 more (I think it was 2?). Baby steps. We should be all caught up with the rest of the league by about 2050.

A dedicated GM would be the other big change that seems like a no-brainer. Duke sucks at drafting trenches.

[t3r3e3]

(Yesterday, 11:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Do you think our projected starters
Brown Fairchild Karras Patrick Mims is worse than our 2024 line?

I am trying to give fans a little hope, yes I know we still have issues, but who will say the 2025 OL is worse than the 2024 OL?

I think Mims gets better and Fairchild is much better than the 50 Volson and Ford gave us. I think Patrick or Ford at RG is an upgrade (slight) from te 37 Cappa gave us.

If we do hold, who says the 2025 projected starting OL is as bad or worse than the 2024 OL and why? Give us your projected PFF pass protect scores for each starter.

On paper it’s better. The 2024 line was a bottom 2-3 unit. This year’s on paper is no better than a bottom 6 unit, and with the current injuries could be on par with last year’s line. Hopefully Burrow doesn’t get hurt yet again scrambling behind a bad interior line and average tackles. The depth is plain terrible. This is arguably the worst o-line unit on paper in the AFC North.

[Nepa]

(Yesterday, 11:04 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Do you think our projected starters
Brown Fairchild Karras Patrick Mims is worse than our 2024 line?

I am trying to give fans a little hope, yes I know we still have issues, but who will say the 2025 OL is worse than the 2024 OL?

I think Mims gets better and Fairchild is much better than the 50 Volson and Ford gave us. I think Patrick or Ford at RG is an upgrade (slight) from te 37 Cappa gave us.

If we do hold, who says the 2025 projected starting OL is as bad or worse than the 2024 OL and why? Give us your projected PFF pass protect scores for each starter.

I'm not a good one to ask if the projected OL is as bad or worse than the 2024 OL-- because every year I think they are going to be better. In the past 4 years, I've been excited every year about the OL, only to be brought back to reality by the play of the OL or by injuries.

The front office made many exciting changes in 2021, the Super Bowl run, with Riley Reiff being brought in, and Quinten Spain taking over, and a new exciting 2nd round pick in Jackson Carman. And then they gave up 51 sacks in the regular season, 9 in one playoff game to the Titans, Riley Reiff was injured without a suitable backup, and Spain missed the block on Aaron Donald to end the Super Bowl.

The front office then invested heavily with Ted Karras and Alex Cappa and La'ell Collins the next year and I was ecstatic. They did better, but still 41 sacks and Carman being a major weakness and La'el Collins getting a season-ending injury.

You gave last years PFF grades, and I had been optimistic heading into that season.

to make a long story short, I was hopeful entering this season until I started reading reports on Patrick and experiencing Deja-vu. I'm beginning to think the posters advocating to fix the OL were right all along and I was wearing rose-colored glasses each year.

(BTW, it sounds a little passive aggressive to end with "give us your projected PFF pass protect scores for each starter." How can anyone project something as specific as a PFF score for each starter prior to the season?)

[THE PISTONS]

(Today, 03:12 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: On paper it’s better.  The 2024 line was a bottom 2-3 unit.  This year’s on paper is no better than a bottom 6 unit, and with the current injuries could be on par with last year’s line.  Hopefully Burrow doesn’t get hurt yet again scrambling behind a bad interior line and average tackles.  The depth is plain terrible.  This is arguably the worst o-line unit on paper in the AFC North.

ESPN did rankings of positional groups. They have our OL as a whole next to last:

2025 NFL positional group rankings: Best, worst team units - ESPN

Somehow, for Edge they have us 9th. Must include Trey in that. CB and safety also ranked really badly.

That said, they do have us having the 7th best roster in the NFL. Buf, Balt, KC are above us in the AFC.

Interestingly, Chicago is right below us.

[Luvnit2]

(Today, 08:19 AM)Nepa Wrote: (BTW, it sounds a little passive aggressive to end with "give us your projected PFF pass protect scores for each starter." How can anyone project something as specific as a PFF score for each starter prior to the season?)

2024 actual scores
Karras - 78.0

Brown - 69.5
Mims - 60.8
Volson - 48.8
Cappa - 39.7

Ford - 50.2

Here are my projections for our current projected starters 2025 PPF pass blocking scores

Brown - 73.0
Fairchild - 61.5
Karras - 77.5
Patrick - 52.0
Mims - 65.5%

It is a projection and opinion, nothing hard about doing it.

[BengalsBong]

(Yesterday, 10:06 PM)puddycat Wrote: As bad as that was, they were worse in run blocking with Volson in the 60s, Brown, Karras, and Mims in the 50s, and Brown in the 40s.

This matters we need to get our run blocking up to par hopefully our new run scheme and coaches can improve this.

It would make us so much better and take a ton of pressure off Joe and the WR if we can pick up a 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 on the ground consistently.

[THE PISTONS]

(Today, 11:07 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: This matters we need to get our run blocking up to par hopefully our new run scheme and coaches can improve this.

It would make us so much better and take a ton of pressure off Joe and the WR if we can pick up a 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 on the ground consistently.

Will be interesting what this guy does. The last really 4 o-line coaches haven't hard great results. (Counting Pollack twice.) Is it the players? Is it the coaches?

[*rfaulk34*]

So you guys didn't notice that the 1st string Oline opened up holes for Chase to run for a 4.6ypc average last week?

[Luvnit2]

(9 hours ago)rfaulk34 Wrote: So you guys didn't notice that the 1st string Oline opened up holes for Chase to run for a 4.6ypc average last week?

I am interested to see how we do this week. I hope they play their first team defense and offense. If so, we will know a little more on how our roster has evolved. s 2024. Yes, I was surprised our OL opened some nice holes last week.

I hope they are better in 2025 and an improvement over 2024. If Patrick does not do well tonight, it may prompt the FO to sign Risner. If he does well, our board Patrick haters will not be happy as likely no Risner or better option in 2025 other than Patrick or Ford at RG.

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 10:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Theyre certainly not going to make big, splash moves to solve an issue. They'll sign a fringe starter or career backup and throw a 3rd or 4th Round pick at it.

The elite teams definitely go more all in yearly.

Still the same team building mentality from the FO from 20 years ago - build from the outside.
The couple times they invested a 1st round pick into IOL, the player either sucked (Price) or performed too well and outplayed the target cost the Bengals wanted to pay in FA (Zeitler), letting them once after their rookie contract expired.
They're more than happy to invest 1st rounders into OTs and sign OTs to $10+ mill APY deals, but they don't want to pay $10+ mill APY for IOL.
They look for more bargain shopping for IOL, and it's bitten them ever since Zeitler and Boling departed.
Karras has been solid, but he's not been elite.
All other IOL on the team have been worse than Karras.

I always think how the Bengals might be and might have been if they spent less money on their offensive weapons and more on their OL.
I realize though the OL usually don't sell jerseys like high profile offensive weapons do, so maybe that is part of it.

[*ochocincos*]

(Today, 11:21 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Will be interesting what this guy does. The last really 4 o-line coaches haven't hard great results. (Counting Pollack twice.) Is it the players? Is it the coaches?

It could be the scheme.

[*rfaulk34*]

(9 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am interested to see how we do this week. I hope they play their first team defense and offense. If so, we will know a little more on how our roster has evolved. s 2024. Yes, I was surprised our OL opened some nice holes last week.

I hope they are better in 2025 and an improvement over 2024. If Patrick does not do well tonight, it may prompt the FO to sign Risner. If he does well, our board Patrik haters will not be happy as likely no Risner or better option in 2025 other than Patrick or Ford at RG.

Karras and Fairchild looked really good and really technically sound in the run game last week. I didn't really pay attention to the tackles and Patrick was a mixed bag. 

Overall, i don't think it's out of the question to expect and see an improved run game this year. Looking forward to tonight as well. 

I would like to see Patrick come around and end up being an average or near average starting RG.