Please Don't Waste This Season...

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-31-2015, 03:57 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Yep, the Patriots offense is consistent, every quarter they're in the top 3 or 4 in points basically, there's no difference by quarter/half. Their defense is worse in the 2nd half, likely because other teams are throwing haymakers in the 1st half.

But it's easy to see, Billy Bellicheat does not play marvin ball. The worst part of that is if you swapped head coaches, Belichick would have the Bengals offense humming all game - better than the Patriots, due to superior talent. Josh Mcdaniels is not why the Patriots offense is the way it is.

Jesus... would they even bother to play the season or would they have just given the Super Bowl trophy to the Bengals at the beginning of the season?

Belichick + Bengals 2011-2015 (+ Zimmer 2011-2014) = probably 4 Super Bowls (2014 there were just too many injuries, nobody can win a SB with Tate, Hamilton, and Burkhead as your WRs).

Dalton with 4 rings in his first 5 years would be talked about as one of the greatest of all time and already a first ballot HoF. How funny would that be to today's reality where most people hate him unduly?

[Wes Mantooth]

Completely going off topic here, but LL's mention of Zimmer made me think: does anybody else wonder what it would be like had we promoted Mike Zimmer two years ago?

I mean, we all know the man earned the opportunity to be a head coach.  In fact, it was long overdue.  And as much as we love to promote assistants it seemed like a reasonable possibility.  His players loved him and he had coached up a number of average rosters to top 10 finishes.  As much as it made sense to move on from Marvin, it made as much sense to give Mike Zimmer a chance.

So what would have happened?  Look at the disaster that he walked into.  An already bad team, that then went through the Adrian Peterson mess.  He was gifted that, along with a rookie QB and not a lot else either.  He managed a respectable 7 wins in year 1, and they did have a small chance at the postseason late in the year. 

Now, in year 2, he's got them 10-5 with the playoffs cliched.  Tied for first in his divison, with the 3rd best record in the NFC.  He's coming off back to back wins of 38-18 of 49-17 over the Bears and Giants. (They're playing really well)

Call me crazy, but I personally I would have loved to have seen what he could have done with this roster and many of these guys who absolutely love the guy.  If Marvin doesn't get it done this year I think it will have an absolute shame they didn't pull the trigger and promote Zim.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-31-2015, 06:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Completely going off topic here, but LL's mention of Zimmer made me think: does anybody else wonder what it would be like had we promoted Mike Zimmer two years ago?

I mean, we all know the man earned the opportunity to be a head coach.  In fact, it was long overdue.  And as much as we love to promote assistants it seemed like a reasonable possibility.  His players loved him and he had coached up a number of average rosters to top 10 finishes.  As much as it made sense to move on from Marvin, it made as much sense to give Mike Zimmer a chance.

So what would have happened?  Look at the disaster that he walked into.  An already bad team, that then went through the Adrian Peterson mess.  He was gifted that, along with a rookie QB and not a lot else either.  He managed a respectable 7 wins in year 1, and they did have a small chance at the postseason late in the year. 

Now, in year 2, he's got them 10-5 with the playoffs cliched.  Tied for first in his divison, with the 3rd best record in the NFC.  He's coming off back to back wins of 38-18 of 49-17 over the Bears and Giants. (They're playing really well)

Call me crazy, but I personally I would have loved to have seen what he could have done with this roster and many of these guys who absolutely love the guy.  If Marvin doesn't get it done this year I think it will have an absolute shame they didn't pull the trigger and promote Zim.

Seeing as how he took over a 5-10-1 team and brought them up to 7-9 without AP and are now sitting at 10-5 with a game to decide the division title this week with AP (despite a meh QB, and no real playmakers outside of RB)... give him this Bengals roster and it would probably be something like...

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-31-2015, 04:13 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: McCarron i believe can manage the game.  what that means is hes not gonna win us the game thats gonna be up to the other 45 players on the field.

Me, shake and others have argued for quite some time that our playoff meltdowns and prime time implosions aren't in any way only Daltons fault, as some want to believe.

The other 45 fold just as much if not more.

If this team is as many say "the most talented team in the NFL"  and our coaches are any good at all we could find ways to win. Problem is this team doesn't have that ability.

We fold up in a fetal position anytime Pittsburgh's in town.  We come out with the deer in the head lights look every playoff game. And the bright lights come on and we check out.

This season is shaping up to end the same way as the last 4 and I fully believe that would still be with or without Dalton.

I pray they can set their purses down and pull their big boy britches on this season and finally force their will on somebody. But I doubt it.

Whoever we face will take us out behind the woodshed again.

[J24]

Any team that loses their starting QB has a built in excuse for not winning the title.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-31-2015, 07:00 PM)J24 Wrote: Any team that loses their starting QB has a built in excuse for not winning the title.

Because there aren't several other instances of backups winning the Super Bowl?

[J24]

(12-31-2015, 07:21 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Because there aren't several other instances of backups winning the Super Bowl?

Its very rare and the teams that do it usually have an unbelievable defense or the Back up QB was a secret super star that know one new about before hand.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-31-2015, 07:31 PM)J24 Wrote: Its very rare and the teams that do it usually have an unbelievable defense or the Back up QB was a secret super star that know one new about before hand.

True. But depending on the surrounding cast, i don't think you can just say "back up QB, that's the reason". Unless your backup is a super bad scrub like Lindley for the Cards last year.

[Essex Johnson]

(12-31-2015, 03:12 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: This has to be the year, right?  This team HAS to contend and do better now, this very season.  No excuses.  No more next year.  No more youth, injury, rebuilding, bad luck sob stories.  The time to compete is now.  It's always now in this league.  

Why concern yourself with may or may not happen later, or what has happened before, when you have the ability to seize the moment as a playoff team, right in this very moment?

This team obviously started 8-0.  There was something different about this group, even compared to similar rosters of recent seasons.  They seemed to have progressed to that next step.  There was almost a magic aura surrounding this year's roster.  They were special.  The season seemed special, and different.  If any year was to be the year this was it.

Since that 8-0 start this team is 3-4.  They were 2-2 with Andy Dalton after that magical start.  I'm not sure I really need to explain where I'm going with this concern.

I guess the question is: Is the magic gone?  Is that special feeling many of us had still there?  Is it for you?  Or are you now starting to doubt whether this year will be any different than the last?  From a rational, unbiased, logical perspective, do you, as a fan, feel the same level of confidence you did earlier?  Less?  Perhaps even more?

Because for me, I'm starting to get that "I've seen this movie" feeling.  Some may find that to be negative, and that's ok.  But regardless, is simply me sharing my honest opinion on how I'm seeing this season develop.  

Houston, primetime game. Loss. Arizona, primetime game.  Loss. Denver, primetime game.  Loss.  Big divisional game against the Steelers.  Loss.

Even more concerning is what we just saw.  Up 14-3 against the Broncos.   Outscored 17-3 in the second half.  I've seen this movie.  I saw it recently when we went into the locker room up 14-7 against the Cardinals only to be outscored 21-0 in the 3rd quarter.  Want more examples?

-2015 playoffs against Indy. Outscored 13-0 in the 2nd half.
-2014 playoffs against San Diego. Outscored 20-0 in the 2nd half.
-2013 playoffs against Houston.  Held to two field goals in the 2nd half, outscored 10-6 in the 2nd half.
-2012 playoffs against Houston.  Outscored 14-0 in the 2nd half.
-2011 playoffs against Jets. Held to 7 second half points, outscored 10-7 in the 2nd half.
-2006 playoffs against Steelers. Outscored 17-0 in the 2nd half.

-We've been outscored in the 2nd half in EVERY single playoff game under Marvin Lewis.  Every. Single One.
-The point totals after halftime in these games are 84-13.  Our opponents have almost scored SEVEN times as much as us.
-We have had one touchdown in 6 playoff games in the 2nd half.  One.  In 180 minutes of football.

So, it's not necessarily the fact we may be without Andy that I find concerning.  I've thought AJ has done admirably, and I feel pretty confident in his ability.  I think the defense is playing great, and I think the breakdown Monday late was more a result of the environment and the offense's ability to keep them off the field.  I still love our weapons, and I still think this team is stacked with talent.

What is concerning is what has plagued this team forever.  With different cordinators, and different QB's, different schemes, etc.  It's this teams ability to close out games and/or make the proper adjustments to counter the opponent.  It's the mentality that seems almost scared to do anything other than take the foot off the gas and protect a lead.  And I'm sorry, but all of that is a reflection on the head coach.

Can this team still do great things?  You bet.  Will they?  I'll take the wait and see approach.  

They have so much talent.  AJ is playing pretty well, and I think he can only continue to improve.  They'll get Eifert and Iloka back, which is huge.  They have capable cordinators.  It's all right there for the taking.

The recent loss on it's own is not that big of a deal.  I thought they looked pretty good.  And both teams looked evenly matched.  The Steelers loss on it's own is not that big of a deal.  A backup QB, who saw backup reps all week, with no experience, got thrown to the wolves.  So I think we can be ok.  I'm just not at all confident about it.  And by it I mean Giggles. Make the ending to this movie different than what I'm guessing it's going to be.

Please, PLEASE, do NOT waste the start of what appeared to be a great season.  For a great team, with great, great talent.  For a town that has waited so long for it.  Please win more now.  Just prove to be a legitimate contender.  Show up.  Look well prepared, hungry, aggressive.  Outclass rather than be outclass.  As your leader says, "be a ***** pro".  All of you.  Every single person in that building.  When the playoffs come, take all that talent you have and kick somebody right in the ***** teeth.  NOW.  

Basically, make all my years of bitching look stupid. Make me look stupid, Marvin.  Get it done.  No ***** excuses!

Pretty simple.. we need our Defense to finally show up.. and we need our All Pro QB to come back.  AJ is doing ok but he limits our offense big time.. We need Dalton.. without him we will need a great Defense in the playoffs.. which we have not had yet.. 

[GodFather]

Should I say the politically correct things?
-we can do this
-this team started off 8-0
-this team has a strong defense
-strong WR's and TE

or shall I say what I really think?
-Unprepared year after year in post season with Lewis
-Injuries at worst time of the year
-Team not finishing strong
-Toughness and Tenacity absent in must win situations
-Outcoached just like in years past

I don't believe for a second we will win in the post season. If we (god forbid) meet Shitsburgh in the post season we will have an embarrassing offseason to contend with.

I have absolute zero faith in Marvin Lewis taking this team anywhere this post season. I already saw the "Classic" Bengals on Mondays game. Coming out the second half and being shut down in every phase of the game only to lose the lead and game.

If Dalton comes back, I don't expect him to perform great with his injury.
-His accuracy will be off
- timing off from not playing won't be as sharp.

Do I hope they win? Of course. Do I want them to win as badly as the rest of us. More than you know. Will I allow myself to think they will go far in the playoffs? Not a chance. They can give me the surprise of the year and finally go to the next level. But history and facts show me otherwise. This team will tank when playing at the next level of the playoffs from the top down, like year in and out.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

If the Bengals blow it in the playoffs this year, it will most likely be due to coaching....the same reason that they've lost 4 of the last 6 years. I give 2014 a pass because of massive major injuries, but in each other season (2009, 2011, 2012, and 2013), the issues all stemmed from the same larger issue.

I actually think this team is talented enough to overcome that handicap though.

[ShowMeUrTDs]

Thanks you for the well thought out post!

It always has, AND ALWAYS WILL BE MARVIN LEWIS!!!

The man's coaching strategy does not equate to winning big games. Regardless of different players and coaches, the results have always been eerily the same. It's why I gave up my season tickets in 2010. I am eternally grateful for Marvin righting the ship for the Bengals organization, but his ship has sailed as far as it can go.

[BonnieBengal]

(12-31-2015, 04:52 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: I am in agreement that Adam Jones needs to return punts.I mean you got one of the most dangerous punt-returners and you do not use him.Come on MAN!!! And to me all of you are right,old marvin plays way too conservative.He sucks sucks big time.He needs to keep the foot on the gas and just keep hammering away ALL GAME.He haS never done that.I mean when they got 40-50 seconds left before the half and he justs takes a friggin knee.That just kills me.big ben and tom brady will go for a  score and use their two minute drill.I cannot stand his way of running the team.If you got a second left you should be trying to score,you moron.If he plays that way against the dirty-birds,he will get killed.Ryan Mallett it a damn good qb and he is about 6ft6in.And he has a killer instinct,just like old big ben.I have been very critical of giggles way of running this team in game time management and playing so stinkin conservative.I HATE THAT SHI-----T !!!! ONE more thing.Hue needs to use his highly skilled receivers much more.Get big chunks of yardage by throwning deep.I mean you got TYLER EIFERT,A.J.GREEN,MARVIN JONES, AND M.SANU.He does not use his WR's near enough.Instead he keeps trying to run the rock up the middle and its not working good enough.Sometimes yes,but come on man,throw the friggin rock deep down the field,best case you get a TD,or worse PI which is okay too.Big Ben,Tom B,Carson P all get big chunks by throwin it.To win in prime time you have to throw it with the deep ball.We have the talent,please use it Hue.Then get up on them and now pound the shit out of them.Wear down the CB's in the first half,get up on them and in the second half,you can be more selective in slingin it.I know the refs are calling a lot of pentalities on CB's.Take advantage of that.Marvin Lewis and company.I will be watching your arse and how you manage the clock on this upcoming battle.If you allow the dirty-birds to come in here and whip us,I hope you step down.

Adam Jones has had a foot injury and is probably not 100 percent.  Plus we are weak at corner right now.  So that's why they are not using him to return kicks/punts.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-31-2015, 09:54 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Adam Jones has had a foot injury and is probably not 100 percent.  Plus we are weak at corner right now.  So that's why they are not using him to return kicks/punts.

Which is totally understandable. I would rather have him starting at CB than KR/PR in the Bengals current situation. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't try to upgrade from Tate though. Can't Bernard return punts? Maybe Marvin Jones can return kicks? ANYTHING is better than running backwards.

[Atomic Orange]

(12-31-2015, 09:54 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Adam Jones has had a foot injury and is probably not 100 percent.  Plus we are weak at corner right now.  So that's why they are not using him to return kicks/punts.

WHat about when he was 100%, what's the excuse for that one? What about Gio, why not use Gio? Hell ANYBODY except for Brandon Tate.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-31-2015, 03:26 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: After re-reading my post I realize it's more of rant, sprinkled with a few facts, than me actually making a specific point.  And as with most of my posts, it's probably longer than it needs to be.

I don't know guys, I'm just getting nervous.  I don't think the loss was that big of deal.  And my opinions about our group of players remains the same.  I'm just getting more and more hints of deja vu.  The turning into a different team in the 2nd half of big games, the conservative play calling (After starting the game so aggressive), the fact we're going to finish the 2nd half of the season at .500 or worse.

I hope I'm just overreacting and they're fine.  But man oh man, does Marvin Lewis and his ability to lead this team scare the absolute shit out of me.

Honestly, I'm right there with ya. At 8-0 with Dalton and Eifert having breakout seasons, Atkins, Dunlap, Pacman, Nelson and others balling out, it just felt like this was something special. Easily the most dominant Bengals team I've seen. Instead of looking like that 10-6 fringe contender we're all familiar with, they looked like a 14-2 powerhouse. The type of team you expect to see in the final 4 (conference title games).

(12-31-2015, 03:45 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: In my head I see it as "Holy shit, that actually worked.  Let's just sit on this and get out of here." 

When I watch a Pats game I see  like some crazy wrestling match or something with a villlian.  Keep punching him!!  Haymaker, haymaker, haymaker!"  "Man, he's out. Get off him!!! You're killing him!!!"  "No, I'm going to hit about a dozen more times.  Then I'm going to Hulk Hogan leg drop on him.  Then I'm going to pretend to walk away only to turn around and put him in a camel clutch.  Then I'm going to punch a fan.  And then I'm going to hit one last time just because I can."

Hilarious description and spot on really. 

(12-31-2015, 04:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is sort of the sentiment I had the whole time, myself.  I expected Dalton to be better in the playoffs this year, but this TEAM just seems to operate at 50% efficiency in the post-season for the past decade or so (especially the offense).  As well as Dalton has been playing, I have to admit it does sound pretty odd when Bengals fan preemptively attribute a playoff loss to NOT having a QB with 8 turnovers for every TD in the post-season.

I fully expected Dalton to be better in the playoffs this year. He wasn't terrible for not having any weapons in last years playoff game. This year he was playing at an elite level and had a full compliment of weapons. That said, it is funny to watch people clamor for a QB that has taken all the blame for each playoff loss (even though hardly anyone has shown up for any of the 6 playoff games).

[*bengalfan74*]

All I know is I'm sick and tired of watching this team collapse in the 2nd half of the vast majority of every big game we're in past mid November. Tired of seeing us look like hammered dog doo in Prime Time way more often than not.

If we don't do it now when are we going to do it ? I've been following this team for 40 years+ now and I'm not real sure I can handle another "we'll get em next year"

I tired of all the excuses. I want to see a damn playoff run and I don't care if some dude out of the stands is our QB. Shut up with the BS and go out there and get it done with all this talent.

Period.

[Essex Johnson]

(12-31-2015, 10:16 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: WHat about when he was 100%, what's the excuse for that one? What about Gio, why not use Gio? Hell ANYBODY except for Brandon Tate.

They tried Gio.. fumbled his first attempt and i think they are staying away from that.. I don;t have a problem with Tate as far as being dependable on catches.. has not fumbled in a long time. i am not sure if any this year.. I can name a few teams like Washington and Pittsburgh that lost or almost cost them a game with a fumble by a good punt returner... 

[masonbengals fan]

Lots of frustrations being vented in this thread & I too have had flashes of that same old feeling. But there are legitimate reasons(Call them excuses if you want)for where we are today.

Houston was no doubt a bad loss
We gave the Cardinals all they wanted & it could have ended either way.
The Dalton injury on the 1st damn series was a killer blow in the Pittsburgh game. I truly think we would have won that otherwise.
Took Denver to OT with a backup QB in a game where the Bronco's playoff life depended on it.

So really in my mind, only 1 bad loss all year.

I like AJM & he is capable but our playoffs success depend on Andy's return. Do I want to see a magical run by AJM absolutely. But if he's gonna do it the rest of the team is gonna have to pick up their play a couple of notches.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-31-2015, 04:13 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: hes filled in well for a backup QB.. but the struggles are obvious

McCarron i believe can manage the game.  what that means is hes not gonna win us the game thats gonna be up to the other 45 players on the field.

McCarrons job is to not lose the game for us.

I know Andy Dalton does not have a playoff victory.  But for anyone on this forum to sit here and say we wouldnt be in a better position to win with dalton than without is just completely assinine.

and while mccarron has filled in nicely against one of the worst teams in the league and a great 1/2 game vs the #1 defense.

neither of those will be enough in the playoffs where the competition raises the bar.

(im not blaming anything on McCarron just for the Record its just obvious he doesnt have the control or the experience to run the offense like it will be needed...  just one drive in the 2nd half last week and maybe our Defense isnt completely gassed...  if its a result of playcalling (due to lack of trust) i dont know.)

I think McCarron ran the offense beautifully in the first few series last week.  That is the problem.  Marvin is such a conservative individual by nature that a two score lead 20 minutes in to the game is where he starts to try to kill the clock.  

On offense, kept running in to 8 man fronts.  Why not spread those fronts out and attack them?  Because it risks a turnover.  The last time I check, three horrible plays and a punt is a turnover...it just takes a little longer and results in better field position.   The play selection after the first few drives was pathetic.  If your offensive line can't do any better than that in the run game, you must spread them out with multiple weapons and attack them with short passes.  

On defense, when it was clear in the second half that the front four was done, they stuck with it and gave B.O. all kinds of time to find checkdowns and create some decent gains in the running game.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the field, the other orange team attacked with a variety of blitzes on defense and allowed their QB to make plays to move the chains and ultimately score.

It was as piss-poor a coaching job (in the second half) as I have ever seen.  It is so sad that the #2 seed was right there, and they blew it in the name of not making mistakes or getting burnt deep.  This seems to be the common thread for this coaching staff and it is infuriating.