Two Reasons Marvin Needs To Go

[NATI BENGALS]

One of the lowest if not the lowest number of players placed on IR in the NFL this year. An 8-0 start to the year. Yet we still have early draft picks on our team who don't even know how to play in the NFL, and it is January.

We are going into a playoff game with a 4th round pick who should be playing meaningful snaps at DT yet he hasn't even dressed for an NFL game even though he has been on the roster for the entire regular season. And a 3rd round pick who should be playing meaningful snaps at LB. Instead our draft picks have minimal experience after their first year in the NFL. And they are expected to play meaningful snaps in the playoffs.

We have an easy win this weekend. Our biggest weakness is two guys who could have and should have got more experience than Marvin Lewis has given them.

We got this Win. But we should be better.

[fredtoast]

You have no idea how good Hardison and Dawson are.

I have heard the exact same thing said over the years about many many previous draft picks who everyone swore should be starting yet never made an impact with any team in the league.

[BonnieBengal]

(01-07-2016, 03:23 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: One of the lowest if not the lowest number of players placed on IR in the NFL this year. An 8-0 start to the year. Yet we still have early draft picks on our team who don't even know how to play in the NFL, and it is January.

We are going into a playoff game with a 4th round pick who should be playing meaningful snaps at DT yet he hasn't even dressed for an NFL game even though he has been on the roster for the entire regular season. And a 3rd round pick who should be playing meaningful snaps at LB. Instead our draft picks have minimal experience after their first year in the NFL. And they are expected to play meaningful snaps in the playoffs.

We have an easy win this weekend. Our biggest weakness is two guys who could have and should have got more experience than Marvin Lewis has given them.

We got this Win. But we should be better.

The Bengals are 12-4 and in the playoffs, and we get this post?

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2016, 03:37 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: The Bengals are 12-4 and in the playoffs, and we get this post?

Best defense in team history should have been playing more rookies?

[J24]

How many rookies are making an impact on playoff teams right now? I imagine there aren't to many!

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-07-2016, 03:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You have no idea how good Hardison and Dawson are.

I have heard the exact same thing said over the years about many many previous draft picks who everyone swore should be starting yet never made an impact with any team in the league.

We have put 3 players on IR this year, which is really low. Has to be way below the average. Our 3rd and 4th round picks played minimal snaps from scrimmage. We have no idea if these guys could even make an impact. Yet we had a GM who thought they were worth 3rd and 4th round picks.

Nobody else other than Marvin is responsible for these guys getting so little exposure.

I think Paul Dawson and Marcus Hardison are Duke Tobin picks. Marvin just doesn't do a good job using them. .

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2016, 03:44 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: We have put 3 players on IR this year, which is really low. Has to be way below the average. Our 3rd and 4th round picks played minimal snaps from scrimmage. We have no idea if these guys could even make an impact. Yet we had a GM who thought they were worth 3rd and 4th round picks.

Nobody else other than Marvin is responsible for these guys getting so little exposure.

I think Paul Dawson and Marcus Hardison are Duke Tobin picks. Marvin just doesn't do a good job using them. .

Maybe the reason they didn't play much is because we only had 3 guys on IR.

BUt it all boils down to the fact that you have no clue how good these guys are in the NFL.  The fact that they did not play much this year is meaningless because we did not need them that much and we don't make decisions on rookies futures based on one season.

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-07-2016, 03:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You have no idea how good Hardison and Dawson are.

I have heard the exact same thing said over the years about many many previous draft picks who everyone swore should be starting yet never made an impact with any team in the league.

They should be better than Trevor Roach or Deshawn Williams who are two undrafted free agents that play the same positions but just came off the practice squad right?

[fredtoast]

Of the 72 players taken in the third and fourth round this year only 5 became starters.

More of them played fewer than 5 games (18) than played in all 16 games (16).

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-07-2016, 04:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Maybe the reason they didn't play much is because we only had 3 guys on IR.

BUt it all boils down to the fact that you have no clue how good these guys are in the NFL.  The fact that they did not play much this year is meaningless because we did not need them that much and we don't make decisions on rookies futures based on one season.

"we did not need them that much".. I disagree with your quote. Sure seems like we could use a little contribution from the roster spot of these two. But the experience factor is basically nil. Getting young players experience is not a new problem for Marvin Lewis. Other than game management, easily his next biggest flaw.

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2016, 04:24 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: They should be better than Trevor Roach or Deshawn Williams who are two undrafted free agents that play the same positions but just came off the practice squad right?

How would I know?

Draft status really doesn't mean a lot in the NFL.  Higher draft picks are more likely on average to be better than undrafted free agents, but you can never tell.  We have gotten a lot of production from undrafted free agents (Hewitt, Gilberry, Burfict, Vinny Rey, Lamur)

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-07-2016, 04:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Of the 72 players taken in the third and fourth round this year only 5 became starters.

More of them played fewer than 5 games (18) than played in all 16 games (16).

Yes random 3rd and 4th round picks make a difference in meaningful NFL games. Something Marvin still doesn't accept. And now we are going in the playoffs with a 3rd and 4th round pick pretty high on the depth chart at multiple positions with little or NO experience. Even though Dawson and Hardison were both on the 53 ALLL Yearr.

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2016, 04:33 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: "we did not need them that much".. I disagree with your quote. 

The best defense in Bengal history disagrees.

(01-07-2016, 04:33 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote:  Getting young players experience is not a new problem for Marvin Lewis. Other than game management, easily his next biggest flaw.

Actually this is a message board myth with no real basis in reality.  Marvin starts and plays as many rookies as any other coach

Jeremi Johnson
Eric Steinbach
Madieu Williams
David Pollack
Odell Thurman
Chris Henry
Andrew Whitworth
Johnathan Joseph
Leon Hall
Keith Rivers
Maualuga
Gresham
Dunlap
Jordan Shipley
Green
Dalton
Boling
Zeitler
Eifert
Bernard
Hill
Bodine

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2016, 04:43 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yes random 3rd and 4th round picks make a difference in meaningful NFL games. Something Marvin still doesn't accept. 

He started our fourth round pick last year in all 16 games.

Is this supposed to be some kind of joke thread or did you really not know this?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-07-2016, 03:42 AM)J24 Wrote: How many rookies are making an impact on playoff teams right now? I imagine there aren't to many!

If we're just talking about the other 11 teams, roughly 25 this year on playoff teams.

Lowest: Steelers - 0 (Bud Dupree has the 5 starts, but not the stats)
Highest: Patriots - 4



- - - - -
That aside, I am not really interested in the rest of the thread. Your question just interested me and then I wanted to find out. Since I did, might as well share it.

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-07-2016, 04:24 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: They should be better than Trevor Roach or Deshawn Williams who are two undrafted free agents that play the same positions but just came off the practice squad right?

I can't believe I am entertaining this but here I go...

Thompson and Lamur were injured in the last game of the season, and was just placed on IR.

Roach and Williams aren't necessarily being brought into replace them.  For all I know and you know, Hardison will be Thompson's replacement as well as Dawson is Lamur's.  

However what happens if God forbid, someone else goes down during practice?  Wouldn't it be nice to have someone on the 53 that we could call on?  What happens if someone goes down during the game?  Again nice to have that extra person available if needed.

There is no evidence to support your conclusion that Williams and Roach will be starting over Hardison and Dawson.   We would do the same thing if any other position suffered a loss.  We would promote from the PS squad if the position is available and if not, then we would find a guy on the street that fit the position of need.

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-07-2016, 04:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The best defense in Bengal history disagrees.




Actually this is a message board myth with no real basis in reality.  Marvin starts and plays as many rookies as any other coach

Jeremi Johnson
Eric Steinbach
Madieu Williams
David Pollack
Odell Thurman
Chris Henry
Andrew Whitworth
Johnathan Joseph
Leon Hall
Keith Rivers
Maualuga
Gresham
Dunlap
Jordan Shipley
Green
Dalton
Boling
Zeitler
Eifert
Bernard
Hill
Bodine

When there isn't much of a choice like round 1,2,3,2,1,1,1, 2,1,2,1,2, 1,1,2,2 or something (like we have had) (what you just listed) Marvin almost always 99% of the time just goes with experience instead of ability. It has hurt us.

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-07-2016, 05:08 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: When there isn't much of a choice like round 1,2,3,2,1,1,1, 2,1,2,1,2, 1,1,2,2 or something (like we have had) (what you just listed) Marvin almost always 99% of the time just goes with experience instead of ability. It has hurt us.

When has it hurt us?

[ElkValleyBengal]

The Bengals have had contributions from about a half dozen rookies this season- the two linemen, two tight ends, Dawson and Shaw. Injury dictated some of it to be sure, but that almost certainly has to rank favorably compared to the league norm.

[BengalB]

Omg. I'm just all WTAF after reading this thread.

Really, it is one of the worst ever threads started in JN and the worst "ML needs to go" threads around.