Question on my car

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-17-2015, 12:14 AM)packerbacker Wrote: What are they? Sorry if this is a dumb question. What do they do?

They provide eletricity to your spark plugs....they generate the spark.  They have replaced the old distributor systems on older cars....totally eletronic now versus mechanical.  It's a good possibilty, and easy to check.

[packerbacker]

I'll check it out. Thanks guys! Afraid to drive out of town if the car just quits on me lol.

[*rfaulk34*]

If it's completely dead on the first attempt (no dashboard lights--nothing), then it's probably the ignition switch.

The ignition switch is mounted on the steering column, underneath the kick plate. It has brass connections that are made when you rotate the key cylinder and allows electricity to flow to different parts of the vehicle.
http://www.autozone.com/1/categories/chevrolet-malibu-ignition-switches

If you do get lights on the dash when you turn the key but it just won't crank, it could be--but probably isn't--still a bad connection in the ignition switch. It could be a passlock issue. The passlock is a passive anti-theft system. There is a small magnet embedded in the key cylinder and when you turn the key, the magnet lines up with a relay that allows the vehichle to start (i won't go into what all it does as it's not really necessary). To correct a passlock problem, get in the car and make sure all your doors are closed. Turn your key to the accessory position so that dash lights are on, but not far enough to start the vehicle. You have to sit in the car with the doors closed and the key in the accessory position for approximately 10 minutes. The security light should be illuminated while you're sitting there. After 10 minutes, the security light will go off (by security light i mean--it could be the word "security" or it could be an icon that looks like a padlock). After approximately 10 minutes, when the security light goes off, turn the key off and take it out of the cylinder. Wait 30 seconds then try to start the car.

If neither of these things correct the problem, you probably have another electrical issue in the car. You can take it to the nearest AutoZone and they will connect a tester to your OBD port to see if there are any fault codes.

Here's a nice little picture of my car, a couple months ago, when i replaced the turn signal switch. It looked exactly the same way when i replaced the ignition switch a couple years ago. 



The ignition switch is circled in red, below.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-17-2015, 02:36 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: If it's completely dead on the first attempt (no dashboard lights--nothing), then it's probably the ignition switch.

The ignition switch is mounted on the steering column, underneath the kick plate. It has brass connections that are made when you rotate the key cylinder and allows electricity to flow to different parts of the vehicle.
http://www.autozone.com/1/categories/chevrolet-malibu-ignition-switches

If you do get lights on the dash when you turn the key but it just won't crank, it could be--but probably isn't--still a bad connection in the ignition switch. It could be a passlock issue. The passlock is a passive anti-theft system. There is a small magnet embedded in the key cylinder and when you turn the key, the magnet lines up with a relay that allows the vehichle to start (i won't go into what all it does as it's not really necessary). To correct a passlock problem, get in the car and make sure all your doors are closed. Turn your key to the accessory position so that dash lights are on, but not far enough to start the vehicle. You have to sit in the car with the doors closed and the key in the accessory position for approximately 10 minutes. The security light should be illuminated while you're sitting there. After 10 minutes, the security light will go off (by security light i mean--it could be the word "security" or it could be an icon that looks like a padlock). After approximately 10 minutes, when the security light goes off, turn the key off and take it out of the cylinder. Wait 30 seconds then try to start the car.

If neither of these things correct the problem, you probably have another electrical issue in the car. You can take it to the nearest AutoZone and they will connect a tester to your OBD port to see if there are any fault codes.

Here's a nice little picture of my car, a couple months ago, when i replaced the turn signal switch. It looked exactly the same way when i replaced the ignition switch a couple years ago. 



The ignition switch is circled in red, below.

Fun times....I had to pull the entire steering column on my wife's VW to replace the ignition switch.  VW (in the Mark III Jetta anyway) put it all together in one piece with the actual cylinder.  Then, they ran every accessory through that switch (which continued at least through the Mark IV Jetta).  It was kind of a pain, but kind of ingenious.  As the switch degrades, you begin losing accessories, but the car will still run.  As voltage breaks down across the circuit, the CPU shuts off accessories one by one, from least important to vital, to keep the car running/starting.  Pretty clever.  Of course, it took me a day or two to figure out why my wipers and radiator fans just shut off for no reason, and I had ran hot wires to the fuse panel to run them.   The most interesting part?  To self diag the problem, you turned on all of the accessories that had failed (a/c, vent blower, wipers, radiator fans, etc), and then pulled the bright switch in and......voila, they all start working....you now know you have a bad ignition switch in a Volkswagen Jetta.


The issue was, that in the Mark III, the ignition cylinder was held in place with a tiny set screw that required a jeweler's sized screwdriver to remove.  The only way to gain access was to remove the steering column and turn the whole thing upside down and access it that way.  It was corrected on the Mark IV by running a harness from the cylinder to the switch itself and placing the switch on the underside of the column.  All you had to do then was remove the plastic trim covering it.  I have some pics on my phone, I'll try to upload 'em later.  Love talking cars....lol.

[XenoMorph]

(12-16-2015, 10:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Coil packs

You can get them absurdly cheap on ebay. And, it is an easy job that most anyone can perform.

when one of my coils went out the car would still start but it would shake like a *****... Car had 2 coils but yeah it was like a 10-15 dollar part and a 10 minute fix.

[Rotobeast]

Electrical is my 2nd least favorite thing to work on, in cars.

1st is brake lines.
F brake lines !

[Vas Deferens]

(12-17-2015, 11:34 AM)Wyche Wrote: Fun times....I had to pull the entire steering column on my wife's VW to replace the ignition switch.  VW (in the Mark III Jetta anyway) put it all together in one piece with the actual cylinder.  Then, they ran every accessory through that switch (which continued at least through the Mark IV Jetta).  It was kind of a pain, but kind of ingenious.  As the switch degrades, you begin losing accessories, but the car will still run.  As voltage breaks down across the circuit, the CPU shuts off accessories one by one, from least important to vital, to keep the car running/starting.  Pretty clever.  Of course, it took me a day or two to figure out why my wipers and radiator fans just shut off for no reason, and I had ran hot wires to the fuse panel to run them.   The most interesting part?  To self diag the problem, you turned on all of the accessories that had failed (a/c, vent blower, wipers, radiator fans, etc), and then pulled the bright switch in and......voila, they all start working....you now know you have a bad ignition switch in a Volkswagen Jetta.


The issue was, that in the Mark III, the ignition cylinder was held in place with a tiny set screw that required a jeweler's sized screwdriver to remove.  The only way to gain access was to remove the steering column and turn the whole thing upside down and access it that way.  It was corrected on the Mark IV by running a harness from the cylinder to the switch itself and placing the switch on the underside of the column.  All you had to do then was remove the plastic trim covering it.  I have some pics on my phone, I'll try to upload 'em later.  Love talking cars....lol.

You're a braver man than I.  Stopped working on electrical in my VW's after my 86 2 door jetta.  One of the greatest whips I ever owned, so easy to work on.  01 Jetta / GF's 04 T Beetle, not so much.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-17-2015, 11:34 AM)Wyche Wrote: Fun times....I had to pull the entire steering column on my wife's VW to replace the ignition switch.  VW (in the Mark III Jetta anyway) put it all together in one piece with the actual cylinder.  Then, they ran every accessory through that switch (which continued at least through the Mark IV Jetta).  It was kind of a pain, but kind of ingenious.  As the switch degrades, you begin losing accessories, but the car will still run.  As voltage breaks down across the circuit, the CPU shuts off accessories one by one, from least important to vital, to keep the car running/starting.  Pretty clever.  Of course, it took me a day or two to figure out why my wipers and radiator fans just shut off for no reason, and I had ran hot wires to the fuse panel to run them.   The most interesting part?  To self diag the problem, you turned on all of the accessories that had failed (a/c, vent blower, wipers, radiator fans, etc), and then pulled the bright switch in and......voila, they all start working....you now know you have a bad ignition switch in a Volkswagen Jetta.


The issue was, that in the Mark III, the ignition cylinder was held in place with a tiny set screw that required a jeweler's sized screwdriver to remove.  The only way to gain access was to remove the steering column and turn the whole thing upside down and access it that way.  It was corrected on the Mark IV by running a harness from the cylinder to the switch itself and placing the switch on the underside of the column.  All you had to do then was remove the plastic trim covering it.  I have some pics on my phone, I'll try to upload 'em later.  Love talking cars....lol.

Heh. That's the reason i recently replaced the turn signal switch. We were going to Florida and i had no brake lights, left turn signal or cruise control (most important part!!!). 

I had a bad 'burn out' somewhere along the line a couple years ago which necessitated the ignition and turn signal switches being replaced for everything to come back online.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-17-2015, 01:02 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Electrical is my 2nd least favorite thing to work on, in cars.

1st is brake lines.
F brake lines !

Brake lines.....

(12-17-2015, 01:34 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: You're a braver man than I.  Stopped working on electrical in my VW's after my 86 2 door jetta.  One of the greatest whips I ever owned, so easy to work on.  01 Jetta / GF's 04 T Beetle, not so much.  

A good mulitmeter and VWVortex.com are your friends   I loved my Mark II Jetta (91 model).....very easy to work on, and made me a Jetta fan.  Man, that 2002 GLX we had with the 1.8T and 17" wheels was a motorin', handlin' son of a *****.  If she hadn't wrecked it, I had my eyes on a new, bigger snail, and a tune package for the CPU.  We were gonna be Fahrvenugen for sure!  

(12-17-2015, 02:38 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Heh. That's the reason i recently replaced the turn signal switch. We were going to Florida and i had no brake lights, left turn signal or cruise control (most important part!!!). 

I had a bad 'burn out' somewhere along the line a couple years ago which necessitated the ignition and turn signal switches being replaced for everything to come back online.

Gotta have that cruise.....so you can cuss mother***ers that make you decelerate! 

[Sabretooth]

Possibly bad ignition switch.
Do you have a lot of keys on the key ring, the extra weight can cause problems over the years ( just like with people ).
Let us know when you find out definitely.

[packerbacker]

I do have alot of keys on my key ring, would that seriously have anything to do with it?

[Rotobeast]

(01-02-2016, 12:32 AM)packerbacker Wrote: I do have alot of keys on my key ring, would that seriously have anything to do with it?

Yes, it turns the key into a lever, and puts more stress on the "tip" of the key and switch.
The pressure/weight intensifies as they swing back and forth from inertia.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-02-2016, 12:32 AM)packerbacker Wrote: I do have alot of keys on my key ring, would that seriously have anything to do with it?

No. A weighted key ring will only wear out the key cylinder, causing problems--but not the problems you're having.

[Rotobeast]

(01-02-2016, 12:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No. A weighted key ring will only wear out the key cylinder, causing problems--but not the problems you're having.

It changes the gap between the contacts, doesn't it ?
Couldn't that possibly create the issue ?

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-03-2016, 03:36 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: It changes the gap between the contacts, doesn't it ?
Couldn't that possibly create the issue ?

Nah. The only thing inside the key cylinder are brass wafers and the buzzer switch button. The wafers and the opening of the key cylinder will prematurely wear and widen, but it doesn't affect any electrical connections.

There are contacts in the actuator (which is mounted on the back of the key cylinder housing) and in the ignition switch, but they're not in play with a heavy key ring.

[Rotobeast]

(01-03-2016, 01:38 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Nah. The only thing inside the key cylinder are brass wafers and the buzzer switch button. The wafers and the opening of the key cylinder will prematurely wear and widen, but it doesn't affect any electrical connections.

There are contacts in the actuator (which is mounted on the back of the key cylinder housing) and in the ignition switch, but they're not in play with a heavy key ring.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.
I'm mainly familiar with older vehicles, where the bushing can wear out, increase the gap between contact points, and cause power to the coil to be lost

[EatonFan]

The key turn is the door. The second is the ignition. Nothing wrong.

[fredtoast]

(12-17-2015, 01:34 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: You're a braver man than I.  Stopped working on electrical in my VW's after my 86 2 door jetta.  One of the greatest whips I ever owned, so easy to work on.  01 Jetta / GF's 04 T Beetle, not so much.  

It seems like VW engineers added bells and whistles just to see how many wires they could fit in one car.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-07-2016, 03:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: It seems like VW engineers added bells and whistles just to see how many wires they could fit in one car.

.....they were gearing up for the Bugatti.

[QueenCitySouth]

(12-15-2015, 11:21 PM)packerbacker Wrote: I have to turn the ignition twice all the time in order for it to start. What could be the problem? Anyone else have this problem or have had it?

What kind of car is it?