Keep Burfict, lose Lewis

[Benton]

I've been pretty reserved since the loss, but there's a few thoughts I can't get out of my get.

1- Vontaze Burfict should get a lifetime contract. When the team needed someone to change the course of play, he did it. Multiple times. And when we needed someone to step up and make a play, he did it. His interception late won us the game. All we had to do was hold onto the ball.

Did he have a questionable hit? Yes. Should he have done it? No. Was it deserved? Sort of.

The Steelers played like the Steelers. They're dirty. Burfict got dirty in response. The Steelers got lucky, their dirty hit came as the runner was turning (unable to see Shazier) but his feet were moving — legal hit. Burfict came back with a dirty hit of his own. Did Brown deserve it? No. But until the refs put on helmets, you can't hit the guys who do.

2- Fire Marvin, he goes in the wrong direction.

Every off season I say the same thing. Fire Marvin.

Yes, I know. He's turned the team around. And he's a swell guy. And all that. But... fire Marvin. He can not win the big games. He bears the ultimate blame for it.

Three different OC's, one head and three different QBs. Outside of the first round loss and the head coach, can anyone guess a common thread in our ineptitude?

The number 40. Andy Dalton has played in four playoff games, attempting 42 throws in his first, 51 in his third and 30 and 35 in the other two. Most of us give a pass on last year — AD was the only player healthy and those 35 attempts were to guys off the bench. And it's pretty close to 40 attempts. Jon Kitna had 40 attempts back in 2005. And Saturday, AJ had 41 attempts.

With a game in the rain, with a young QB, with a decent running game on the bench... we threw it. Pretty much the same thing in all of Marvin's playoff losses (except the rain). We throw it.

I know. Marvin doesn't call the plays. But don't be deluded. Head coaches set the foundation for how things are supposed to go. If Marvin didn't want us being pass happy in the playoffs, we wouldn't be.

3- Fire Marvin, he can't control the players.

I'm not talking about Burfict, either. The first point when I realized it was going to be a bad night was when Peko was penalized for a play he wasn't involved in. We had the stop. All we had to do was be patient, get the ball back and move on. But Peko went onto the field and shoved a Steeler. It was ridiculous.

And it was Marvin's fault. He can't control his players, he can't get into them the importance of every thing the do.


It's a disappointing end to an outstanding season. Hopefully, the next one will be even better.

[Who Dey Time]

So fire the coach for losing control of his players but keep the player that is the prime example of that loss of control? Interesting.

FWIW - Lewis and Burfict aren't going anywhere and the idea that ML has lost control is simply a knee jerk reaction born out of frustration of losing the game.

[jj22]

Actually Who Dey, Marvin's never been able to control his star players in big games. Look at the 05 meltdown. Look at Carson's claims about how he handled (or didn't) Chad, TJ, Henry etc. There may be something to it as the reason the team lacks poise and control in big games, on national tv.

Burfict has been out of control for a couple years. They could barely keep him off the field when it was obvious to most he was concussed last year.

Zimmer was the only one who could control Burfict (once Zimmer left it all went downhill), so he can be controlled. Once he left, Burfict ran the asylum. Marvin is a caretaker, team builder, a great crisis manager, but he's never been a top coach that players respected/feared.

[Benton]

(01-11-2016, 12:21 PM)Who Dey Time Wrote: So fire the coach for losing control of his players but keep the player that is the prime example of that loss of control?  Interesting.

FWIW - Lewis and Burfict aren't going anywhere and the idea that ML has lost control is simply a knee jerk reaction born out of frustration of losing the game.

This isn't something new. It's been the accusation for years that we lost in '05 because the players gave up on Marvin after the half (including that Chad slapped him in the locker room). Marvin kept telling Chad not to be distracting with his celebrations and he did it anyway. Housh pretty much did what he wanted here. There was Henry, Simpson and other players with off the field issues.

It's not a knee jerk reaction, it's a common theme from Marvin over the years. On and off the field, he can't control the players.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Here, here!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-11-2016, 12:17 PM)Benton Wrote: I've been pretty reserved since the loss, but there's a few thoughts I can't get out of my get.

1- Vontaze Burfict should get a lifetime contract. When the team needed someone to change the course of play, he did it. Multiple times. And when we needed someone to step up and make a play, he did it. His interception late won us the game. All we had to do was hold onto the ball.

Did he have a questionable hit? Yes. Should he have done it? No. Was it deserved? Sort of.

The Steelers played like the Steelers. They're dirty. Burfict got dirty in response. The Steelers got lucky, their dirty hit came as the runner was turning (unable to see Shazier) but his feet were moving — legal hit. Burfict came back with a dirty hit of his own. Did Brown deserve it?  No. But until the refs put on helmets, you can't hit the guys who do.

2- Fire Marvin, he goes in the wrong direction.

Every off season I say the same thing. Fire Marvin.

Yes, I know. He's turned the team around. And he's a swell guy. And all that. But... fire Marvin. He can not win the big games. He bears the ultimate blame for it.

Three different OC's, one head and three different QBs. Outside of the first round loss and the head coach, can anyone guess a common thread in our ineptitude?

The number 40. Andy Dalton has played in four playoff games, attempting 42 throws in his first, 51 in his third and 30 and 35 in the other two. Most of us give a pass on last year — AD was the only player healthy and those 35 attempts were to guys off the bench. And it's pretty close to 40 attempts. Jon Kitna had 40 attempts back in 2005. And Saturday, AJ had 41 attempts.

With a game in the rain, with a young QB, with a decent running game on the bench... we threw it. Pretty much the same thing in all of Marvin's playoff losses (except the rain). We throw it.

I know. Marvin doesn't call the plays. But don't be deluded. Head coaches set the foundation for how things are supposed to go. If Marvin didn't want us being pass happy in the playoffs, we wouldn't be.

3- Fire Marvin, he can't control the players.

I'm not talking about Burfict, either. The first point when I realized it was going to be a bad night was when Peko was penalized for a play he wasn't involved in. We had the stop. All we had to do was be patient, get the ball back and move on. But Peko went onto the field and shoved a Steeler. It was ridiculous.

And it was Marvin's fault. He can't control his players, he can't get into them the importance of every thing the do.


It's a disappointing end to an outstanding season. Hopefully, the next one will be even better.

Except he led with the crown of his helmet outside of the tackle box.....so, illegal hit.  If that hit was legal, then so was Shawn Williams'.....Bryant took two steps.

As for the rest, spot on.  I'd also add, where the hell was Jake Fisher?

[Who Dey Time]

Can't disagree more. Coaches who lose locker rooms/respect from players don't consistently churn out seasons that the Bengals have over the past five years. Inevitably, they will stop listening and ultimately stop playing. To his credit actually, that hasn't happened here which is unique giving Lewis' longevity in one place.

Chip Kelly is an example of guy who lost his team. Eagles were thought of as a Super Bowl team this year but the players simply weren't buying the message and the season went south quickly.

I'm 50/50 on Lewis and can understand the calls for his ouster. But to suggest that he doesn't have respect from his players is simply not stating telling the truth.

Can't have it both ways. You want player like Burfict and Jones, you have to understand the highs and lows of having them.

[Benton]

(01-11-2016, 12:45 PM)Who Dey Time Wrote: Can't disagree more.  Coaches who lose locker rooms/respect from players don't consistently churn out seasons that the Bengals have over the past five years.  Inevitably, they will stop listening and ultimately stop playing.  To his credit actually, that hasn't happened here which is unique giving Lewis' longevity in one place.

Chip Kelly is an example of guy who lost his team.  Eagles were thought of as a Super Bowl team this year but the players simply weren't buying the message and the season went south quickly.

I'm 50/50 on Lewis and can understand the calls for his ouster.  But to suggest that he doesn't have respect from his players is simply not stating telling the truth.

Can't have it both ways.  You want player like Burfict and Jones, you have to understand the highs and lows of having them.

To the bold, I can agree to disagree. I think we've got a lot of talent and we've had good assistants who make use of that. TO, Chad, Haynesworth, RGIII, and others had a ton of talent and didn't listen their coaches. They went out and made plays. Whoever was coaching them didn't matter much.

I'm not saying our guys are self absorbed like them, only pointing out you don't have to have coaches and players on the page to have success, provided you've got talented players. And that's where we are.

And Kelly's a bad example. He was fired because he tried to coach a pro team like it was college. He instituted diets and sleep schedules for grown men. The players didn't like it. He reduced the playbook with the thinking that if they had fewer plays, they could perfect them. Instead, DC's had to spend less time watching tape and could shut him down more easily.

Kelly tried an experiment. It failed. He's a good coach, but with a bad team approach.

And control over and respect are different things. The guys may like Marvin. They may respect him. But nobody listens to him.