Rumor Browns offer 3rd rounder for McCarron

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-16-2016, 11:26 PM)TexasorBusted Wrote: First or all, having a franchise quarterback is worth more than the quarterback's weight in gold in the NFL. Here are the starting quarterbacks in the league:

Franchise Quarterbacks that the teams are happy with (14 players):
Tom Brady, Big Ben, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Andrew Luck (even after the 2015 campaign), Philip Rivers, Eli Manning, Tony Romo (but definitely in the market), Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan (even after this crappy season), Carson Palmer and Russell Wilson.

Franchise Quarterbacks that are marginal (3):
Matthew Stafford, Jay Culter and Ryan Tannehill.

Quarterbacks that might be future Franchise Quarterback (8):
Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Derek Carr, Teddy Bridgewater, Blake Bortles, Kirk Cousins, Brock Osweiler and Tyrod Taylor.

Quarterbacks that are either Game Managers and/or "Guy Keeping the Car Warm" (3):
Alex Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick (slightly better version of Jon Kitna), Brian Hoyer (Jon Kitna 2.0)

Teams with major quarterback issues (4):
Browns (Johnny Football)
49ers (Blaine Gabbert/Colin Kaepernick)
Rams (Case Keenum/Nick Foles)
Eagles (Sam Bradford)

Basically going into 2016 there are 4 teams that are desperate for a QB (Browns, 49ers, Rams and Eagles), 3 teams looking for an upgrade at QB (Texans, Bills and Jets even after the career year from Fitzpatrick), and the Cowboys are looking for a future QB post-Tony Romo. Every year there are around 8 teams looking for a QB....but there are never 8 starting quarterbacks in a draft. This is why trading McCarron or Dalton might not be a bad idea.

Since McCarron was "meh" not good in the Wild Card game, trade him for a 1st round draft pick at a minimum. If no team bites, then keep him. Have a legit Dalton vs McCarron QB fight for the job in 2016.

If any team does bite on getting McCarron, then the Bengals can add another legit player via draft.

Sorry but Dalton is a franchise QB and a top ten QB in the league. McCarron might be at the "Tannehill tier" at this point in his career. He does have some upside, but the team is in "win now mode", not "win 2-4 years down the road mode".

This is a great problem to have. I like Dalton and I like McCarron. But in the end, it's business.

P.S. If Browns offered the #32 pick in 2016, 3rd/4th round pick in 2017 and swapping of the Browns first round pick for the Bengals 2nd round pick in 2018 (dependent on if McCarron hits maybe 70% of snaps and/or the Browns make the playoffs within two years), I would be for a trade like that....Very win-win for both teams....

I think you would have to move Alex Smith to Franchise QB.  He should get more credit than he does.

[whodeyfan1]

I would be very hesitant to trade McCarron at this point, unless a real "too good to be true" deal came along, which I doubt it will.  I definitely would not trade him for anything worse than a 1st or 2nd round pick.  If a team is willing to trade for him, it means they project him as potential franchise QB.  Teams do not typically look for franchise QBs beyond the 2nd round.  So, if a team starts negotiations, I would settle for nothing less.

As far as his future potential, it's still too early to tell.  He did do a very good job in managing what was already a great offense.  How he would hold up over a long season, who knows?  But he does look like a solid backup in case Dalton goes down again.  He's now halfway through his 4 year contract.  Why not let him sit behind AD another season, use him in the chance of injury, then look to trade him next off-season when he still has a year left on his contract?  That's my thought.  I would be in no rush to trade him now.

[BigSeph]

(01-16-2016, 03:46 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: There's enough QB talent in this draft you can get a similar player to AJM 5-7 anyways. 

Your hatred of AJM is causing you to look so stupid on this forum.  You probably don't even believe what you just typed, you just hate AJM so much you think any old 5th rounder could do just as well as he's done.

Well you're wrong.  Incredibly wrong.

If the Browns acquire AJM you will look even more stupid in the future, if that is even possible.

[Alleyviper13]

AJM is going nowhere.......will play out his contract.

/thread

[BigSeph]

(01-17-2016, 02:07 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: AJM is going nowhere.......will play out his contract.

/thread

Agree 100%.

He serves several purposes-

He will improve with more reps
He is cheap
He has demonstrated that he can lead the team to wins
He provides a safety net if Dalton falters or is hurt again
He provides massive potential cap relief is Dalton is moved
His value will increase during preseason next year
The players like him and believe in him
His presence pushes Andy to be better and better

You can't just move him and not get something massive in return considering his cap # and potential.

1st round pick or 2nd+more, no way do you move the guy for less than that.  And to a division opponent?  You never make that trade.

Hue can find his QB from somewhere else.

[leonardfan40]

(01-17-2016, 02:07 AM)Alleyviper13 Wrote: AJM is going nowhere.......will play out his contract.

/thread

If they offer their 2nd rounder I bet he is going somewhere. Considering their first "offer" was a 3rd I wouldn't be shocked one bit to see some sort of deal worked out. 

Like I said before I think Mccarron for their 2nd and Austin Davis would be a good and fair deal for both sides. 

[GodFather]

How pissed are you going to be if Hue wins a playoff game with the Browns before Lewis?

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-17-2016, 02:16 AM)BigSeph Wrote: Agree 100%.

He serves several purposes-

He will improve with more reps
He is cheap
He has demonstrated that he can lead the team to wins
He provides a safety net if Dalton falters or is hurt again
He provides massive potential cap relief is Dalton is moved
His value will increase during preseason next year
The players like him and believe in him
His presence pushes Andy to be better and better

You can't just move him and not get something massive in return considering his cap # and potential.

1st round pick or 2nd+more, no way do you move the guy for less than that.  And to a division opponent?  You never make that trade.

Hue can find his QB from somewhere else.

1. He's a backup. He doesn't get many reps as is.
2. He hasn't beaten a team that had more than 5 wins. Although does deserve praise for his final drive against the Steelers. But he went 2-3. No, he didn't start against the Steelers the first time. But he played everything outside of the first drive.
3. Dalton is signed here longer than McCarron. And Dalton's numbers aren't as bad as people once thought. Even after this year.
4. It's preseason. The Bengals were decimated by the Bucs last preseason. Teddy looked like he was going to set the league on fire. Dalton looked like he was going to take a step back. Preseason means nothing other than getting some practice against other teams and to make a name for yourself as a backup and to make the team.
5. How did his presence do any of that? Dalton even stated he was motivated after the boo-ing at a charity game. And he worked out with Tom House.

McCarron is a backup QB. If a team is willing to trade for him, you can't say no because of "what if" and so on. if you believe the price is right, you take it. This is Dalton's team. No matter what the fans argue about.

The Bengals are going to have many holes this upcoming year due to free agency and players aging. There aren't many amazing backup QBs because, well, they're backups.

[*Nately120*]

(01-17-2016, 02:28 AM)GodFather Wrote: How pissed are you going to be if Hue wins a playoff game with the Browns before Lewis?

Not nearly as pissed as I'd be amazed.  I'm obviously no Marvin fan, but even this prospect challenges my perspective.

[*Nately120*]

(01-17-2016, 02:31 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: 1. He's a backup. He doesn't get many reps as is.
2. He hasn't beaten a team that had more than 5 wins. Although does deserve praise for his final drive against the Steelers. But he went 2-3. No, he didn't start against the Steelers the first time. But he played everything outside of the first drive.
3. Dalton is signed here longer than McCarron. And Dalton's numbers aren't as bad as people once thought. Even after this year.
4. It's preseason. The Bengals were decimated by the Bucs last preseason. Teddy looked like he was going to set the league on fire. Dalton looked like he was going to take a step back. Preseason means nothing other than getting some practice against other teams and to make a name for yourself as a backup and to make the team.
5. How did his presence do any of that? Dalton even stated he was motivated after the boo-ing at a charity game. And he worked out with Tom House.

McCarron is a backup QB. If a team is willing to trade for him, you can't say no because of "what if" and so on. if you believe the price is right, you take it. This is Dalton's team. No matter what the fans argue about.

The Bengals are going to have many holes this upcoming year due to free agency and players aging. There aren't many amazing backup QBs because, well, they're backups.

I'm with you on this.  If the Browns are really going to give us a deal on our backup QB I say we take it and run.  If we had been drafting busts I'd say to hold off, but I actually have faith our FO can make the most on flipping a backup QB for a decent pick.  I know, I just said that.

[leonardfan40]

(01-17-2016, 02:28 AM)GodFather Wrote: How pissed are you going to be if Hue wins a playoff game with the Browns before Lewis?

Trick question.
Marvin will never win one but will retire after losing yet another playoff game next year. Hue may win one in 4-5 years with Cleveland if they do the unthinkable and stick with a coach more than 2 seasons.

[wolfkaosaun]

(01-17-2016, 02:33 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm with you on this.  If the Browns are really going to give us a deal on our backup QB I say we take it and run.  If we had been drafting busts I'd say to hold off, but I actually have faith our FO can make the most on flipping a backup QB for a decent pick.  I know, I just said that.

Honestly, I'm surprised that this rumor exists. Especially given the options the Browns have in the draft. They could get a QB like McCarron or better with their status.

Then again, they are lacking in a bunch of other areas too.

I actually trust out FO with draft picks as well. They've done pretty well. My biggest issue is that we have numerous starters hitting free agency. So if someone wants a backup QB for the right price, you may have to take it.

[*Nately120*]

(01-17-2016, 02:38 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Honestly, I'm surprised that this rumor exists. Especially given the options the Browns have in the draft. They could get a QB like McCarron or better with their status.

Then again, they are lacking in a bunch of other areas too.

I actually trust out FO with draft picks as well. They've done pretty well. My biggest issue is that we have numerous starters hitting free agency. So if someone wants a backup QB for the right price, you may have to take it.

This QB class seems pretty underwhelming at the moment, honestly.  The thing with the Browns is that IF they draft someone they likely NEED to sit him under McCown who is a smart mentor-type for a season.  They keep throwing young QBs into the fire and it's not working. A 2nd for McCarron gives them a young QB with upside and some skill, as well as real game experience and familiarity with Hue's system. I think he's worth a Browns pick, but I'm biased.

[Devils Advocate]

(01-17-2016, 02:16 AM)BigSeph Wrote: Agree 100%.

He serves several purposes-

He will improve with more reps
He is cheap
He has demonstrated that he can lead the team to wins
He provides a safety net if Dalton falters or is hurt again
He provides massive potential cap relief is Dalton is moved
His value will increase during preseason next year
The players like him and believe in him
His presence pushes Andy to be better and better

You can't just move him and not get something massive in return considering his cap # and potential.

1st round pick or 2nd+more, no way do you move the guy for less than that.  And to a division opponent?  You never make that trade.

Hue can find his QB from somewhere else.

AJ isn't a thread to Andy and Andy isn't gonna faulter. 

[*Nately120*]

(01-17-2016, 03:05 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: AJ isn't a thread to Andy and Andy isn't gonna faulter. 

Yep, I was goingn to point out that IF you're a big McCarron fan you might want this trade to happen so he can start.  He hain't taking Andy's job.

[Devils Advocate]

Cleveland is in an interesting position.

Whether we wanna admit it or not, despite our playoff history, we're one of the teams you wanna model your franchise after and what better way to do that than with Hugh?

So, they got their guy that they're gonna stick with for the long haul. Hugh will be there when AJ's contract is up, at which point they'll throw the kitchen sink at him to come reunite with Hugh. Unless AJ is dead set on playing for a particular team, he'll sign.

I guarantee this is one of their plans, unless by some miracle they find a QB before then, which they won't.

AJ is a perfect fit because he's not a rookie, has played well enough to raise some eyebrows and has a history with Hugh, the only offensive coach he's known. They'd be foolish not to do whatever it takes to get AJ. So, either way, that's where AJ is gonna end up. So we'd be just plain dumb not to get something for him and right now, his value is at a premium. We can and should get sweet deal for him and let the chips fall where they may. I bet we could trade him for a 3rd/4th and swap out 1sts and prolly even swap out 2nds to sweeten the pot because of the division rivalry. That's a good deal all round. Hell, we could prolly even get a better deal than that from them.

[TexasorBusted]

(01-17-2016, 01:28 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: I think you would have to move Alex Smith to Franchise QB.  He should get more credit than he does.

Agree to disagree...I think we saw today that Alex Smith is a Game Manager, not a Franchise QB....I give Andy Reid WAY more credit than Smith....Smith just doesn't turn the ball over and eats up clock by just moving the chains....He is barely passible as a starting QB....Alex Smith is closer to Trent Dilfer than Aaron Rodgers...

[Sovereign Nation]

(01-17-2016, 03:35 AM)TexasorBusted Wrote: Agree to disagree...I think we saw today that Alex Smith is a Game Manager, not a Franchise QB....I give Andy Reid WAY more credit than Smith....Smith just doesn't turn the ball over and eats up clock by just moving the chains....He is barely passible as a starting QB....Alex Smith is closer to Trent Dilfer than Aaron Rodgers...

Really? Smith was rolling really good in SF and has done well in KC.  

Smith doesn't have too many weapons in KC and still took them on a 11 game win streak.  

To me Smith is a lot like Dalton.  He doesn't get the credit he deserves.  

[wolfkaosaun]

For those saying they're worried about losing McCarron because if Dalton goes down we don't have a backup, here's a list of free agent QBs:

Kirk Cousins
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Sam Bradford
Brock Osweiler
Chase Daniel
Matt Moore
Tarvaris Jackson
Chad Henne
Matt Schaub
Brandon Weeden
Jimmy Clausen
Colt McCoy
Matt Hasselbeck
Drew Stanton
Dan Orlovsky
Bruce Gradkowski
Charlie Whitehurst
T.J. Yates
Matt Cassel
Luke McCown
Scott Tolzien
Michael Vick
Matt Flynn
Kellen Clemens
Josh Freeman

There's quite a few QBs to pick from to back up Andy Dalton. Could even get a guy who's a veteran and have him teach Dalton as well.

[TexasorBusted]

(01-17-2016, 06:44 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Really? Smith was rolling really good in SF and has done well in KC.  

Smith doesn't have too many weapons in KC and still took them on a 11 game win streak.  

To me Smith is a lot like Dalton.  He doesn't get the credit he deserves.  

Did you watch that crappy time management in the late 4th quarter? That's on Smith and Reid. The Chiefs were down two scores and took over 5 minutes to get a TD...Bad game management...

Remember when the Chiefs were in Cincinnati earlier this year? Smith could drive on the Bengals but never get a TD...They kicked 7 FGs....That is his problem....He will not make the big mistakes, but won't win you the game either....