Last 2 Drafts

[StLucieBengal]

I think what is being missed here....

Ogbhuei at RT improves our edge pass pro significantly. But we do take a hit on some running. I think Ogbhuei will continue to grow in the running game he did a great job at getting to the second level.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-19-2016, 02:40 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Replace Dennard with Kirkpatrick, and Hall with Sherman, and that's what people said for like 3 years about Kirkpatrick.

Already two years in on Dennard, so I am expecting him to be yet another early round miss.

Please discuss your long list of early round misses from this front office.  I'm having a hard time coming up with more than 1 or 2.

[Stormborn]

(01-19-2016, 01:38 PM)CincyWestside Wrote: Is there any harm in the loser of Fisher and Og to move to guard?

I know that the linemen practice a lot learning the other positions as evidenced when Whit moved to guard so Collins could fill in at LT.

Couldn't the loser of Fisher and Og battle for RT move to guard and whichever guard is replaced is then moved to center?

I was a big proponent for experimenting Fisher inside, but it never once transpired on the practice field.

There's only harm if you end up downgrading more than upgrading. Say you move Fisher to RG, then move Zietler to C. On paper it looks good, but Fisher could be such a downgrade there despite Zietler possibly being an upgrade at Center. 

I wish it were that easy to move guys around, but it ain't.

[grampahol]

Kirkpatric is going to be a lot better than some think. Corners usually do get roughed up a bit their first few seasons and get better each year.
A lot of the speculation is really going to determined by the draft and whether they can find gold as far down as they draft this season. I think that unless Bodine changes dramatically he won't be around much longer.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2016, 04:27 PM)grampahol Wrote: Kirkpatric is going to be a lot better than some think. Corners usually do get roughed up a bit their first few seasons and get better each year.  
A lot of the speculation is really going to determined by the draft and whether they can find gold as far down as they draft this season. I think that unless Bodine changes dramatically he won't be around much longer.

Ghiachuc was here 2005-2008.
Cook was here 2007-2013.

Bodine will get at least two more years.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 04:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ghiachuc was here 2005-2008.
Cook was here 2007-2013.

Bodine will get at least two more years.

Ghiaciuc only began two seasons as our starting center ('07-'08)

Cook was a good center until he was injured in '12, then he only got one more season after that.

If Bodine does not improve he will be replaced quickly.

[fredtoast]

Kirkpatrick is not as bad as some people claim, but he is not playing like a first round pick. And he has been around way too long to blame it on inexperience. 2016 will be his fifth season.

[Stormborn]

(01-19-2016, 04:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ghiachuc was here 2005-2008.
Cook was here 2007-2013.

Bodine will get at least two more years.

We get a keeper in 2018, he gets hurt and regresses in 2022 and then is replaced in 2024, and the cycle continues as nature intended it.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 04:40 PM)Stormborn Wrote: We get a keeper in 2018, he gets hurt and regresses in 2022 and then is replaced in 2024, and the cycle continues as nature intended it.

Educate yourself

(01-19-2016, 04:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ghiaciuc only began two seasons as our starting center ('07-'08)

Cook was a good center until he was injured in '12, then he only got one more season after that.

If Bodine does not improve he will be replaced quickly.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(01-19-2016, 04:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ghiaciuc only began two seasons as our starting center ('07-'08)

Cook was a good center until he was injured in '12, then he only got one more season after that.

If Bodine does not improve he will be replaced quickly.

This is accurate. I'd expect a center drafted in the mid rounds to give depth and potentially work for the spot. People forget that Cook was good but an aging Bobbie Williams and bad Nate Livings made life inside hell. 

(01-19-2016, 04:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Kirkpatrick is not as bad as some people claim, but he is not playing like a first round pick.  And he has been around way too long to blame it on inexperience.  2016 will be his fifth season.

2016 will be his fifth season but due to injuries and talent on the team only his 2nd starting 

[brian5562]

Kirpatrick just needs to play under control. He arrives to the ball too many times out of control with poor technique and it causes too many missed tackles or takes away the opportunity to knock the ball away. This really hurts against a team like Pitt who's receivers are very dangerous after the catch.

[fredtoast]

(01-19-2016, 04:46 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: 2016 will be his fifth season but due to injuries and talent on the team only his 2nd starting 

Even the guys who do not start get hundreds of reps against NFL competition in practice and hundreds of hours of film work over the course of a year.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-19-2016, 04:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ghiaciuc only began two seasons as our starting center ('07-'08)

Cook was a good center until he was injured in '12, then he only got one more season after that.

If Bodine does not improve he will be replaced quickly.

Define "will be replaced quickly". Does "replaced" mean fall to backup or does "replaced" mean dropped from the roster?

The comment I responded to was "won't be around much longer". To me, "not around" implies off the roster, does it not?

I do not think Bodine would be off the roster in 2016 or 2017. His rookie contract goes through 2017, so he is cheap.

Now if we're talking about will/should he lose his starting job...I think he definitely should if he does not improve.

[Stormborn]

(01-19-2016, 04:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Educate yourself

No

[J24]

(01-19-2016, 02:40 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Replace Dennard with Kirkpatrick, and Hall with Sherman, and that's what people said for like 3 years about Kirkpatrick.

Already two years in on Dennard, so I am expecting him to be yet another early round miss.

So Dennard is  a bust because he couldn't start over  good players who are more experienced than him? 

[brian5562]

I would love to see Hill take the energy and fire he showed in the second half in particular after Gio got rocked, and run with it. The way he ran on his TD is the hardest he ran all year. No dancing just saw the hole and hit it like a mad man. He has all the talent needed to be a top 5 back.

[phil413]

2015
Ogbuehi- of coarse they'll compete, but they believe he's a top 10 pick without the injury. Ideally, he becomes a pillar for the next decade on the right.

Fisher- I hope Zampese literally carries the torch from Hue. They kept him for continuity, I like some of the old school Redskin resets and extreme screen packages with Whit and Fisher outside. Having that threat is a great plan, even if they use it less it just needs to be worked on more to whittle down illegal formation penalties. I see Fisher as a great toy to have for another year, 3rd tackle and backup LG if needed, what a luxury. Then in another year if Whit isn't retained or is moved inside then Fisher's athleticism should be showcased on the blindside.

Kroft- He's already a capable #2 TE and insurance behind a stud TE with an injury history.

Dawson- Total wildcard, looked like a solid WLB type coming out of college so he may start there for the 1st 3 games and then move to SLB depending on the competition. I'd rather they draft a LB prospect early, and if nothing else Dawson's versatility gives him a spot in the rotation.

Shaw- He could be the S version of Dawson where his versatility and other roster moves could put him in a few different spots. Ideally, he takes the reigns as the nickleback if given the opportunity. They should have a vet (either Jones or a FA) to pair with the other two corners, so they could toy with the idea of Shaw more at safety in packages over Williams in some sets.

Hardison- Should benefit from a redshirt year, should progress to be the guy to give Geno a breather here and there, be an emergency DE or even sit another year if they opt to dress the vets.

Uzomah- They like his length and even blocking enough that they played him some as a rookie, nice prospect as a 3rd TE.

D. Smith- His height hinders him as a safety, but was a great ST and depth pick. Makes a lot of sense as a dime back or last active DB.

Alford- Gets a lot of hype from the board and some coaches. Should see him more especially if Sanu leaves and they don't draft a slot type.

2014
Dennard- Shoulder should be ready next year, but they still need another vet to battle him for the starting gig. Funny enough, due to his (and Dre's) physical style I do worry about Williams long term behind him so until we see more progression from him he's a backup even if we wish he were ready.

Hill- Oh man I pray for this kid. I just felt sick for him after the fumble, hopefully he handles this season in a mature way and doesn't try to win a playoff game single handedly every snap after already having issues with thinking too much in the backfield. The same offense means a lot of Gio and even no-huddle, so Hill will have to make the most out of being the hot hand.

Clarke- Could already be there with Gilberry at DE by the time camp comes around, his length and punch behind MJ and Dunlap means the opposing tackles never get a break. Needs to anchor better vs the run if he wants more reps, but could be in the mix still on passing downs.

Bodine- They're still loyal to him, but they need a backup option no matter if it's TJ, a vet (most likely) or mid-round pick. Alexander is a technical guy that was handed the bull that he wanted, this is Bodine's time to solidify his job or he will lose it.

McCarron- What else do you want? He looked well enough that people are already shooting down Cleveland's high 3rd or even 2nd in a trade for him. I'm excited to be rooting for one of the very few teams with a capable backup and he's even cheap and young to boot.

Flowers- Had a year off, but if he makes the roster could see some PT for the 1st 3 games with Burfict out. Needs to bounce back from the injury as the coverage LB that Lamur wasn't, but the position still needs competition.

Wright- Nice ST guy in the same situation as Flowers, should be on the backend of the WR position but may have a door open to do more. If one of the FA's leave, they may draft a WR early. Since WR's sometimes take longer to develop, Wright and a vet could get PT early.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-19-2016, 06:10 PM)J24 Wrote: So Dennard is  a bust because he couldn't start over  good players who are more experienced than him? 

Didn't call him a bust yet, but he's looking like it because he couldn't start over Dre Kirkpatrick, who IS a bust. Keep in mind, this is after Marvin Lewis calls him "the best rookie corner I have ever seen".

How do you go from the best rookie corner Lewis has ever seen, to not even being able to beat out Bust Kirkpatrick for a job? An underwhelming lack of improvement is all I can think of, which doesn't bode well for his future.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-19-2016, 03:24 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Please discuss your long list of early round misses from this front office.  I'm having a hard time coming up with more than 1 or 2.

Where did I say long list? I just said yet another, as in there's been ones before him. Keep in mind a good backup, mediocre (at best) starter, or rotational sorta contributor is NOT a hit. We're talking 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks here. They're supposed to be big impacts.

We'll have to see for the 2015 draft, not enough time yet, though none of the first three picks have made a big impact yet, but I generally don't judge a draft until 2 years in.
- - - - - - - - - -

-Darqueze Dennard (24th): MISS Has done nothing.

-Jeremy Hill (55th): UNCLEAR Had 9 amazing games, 23 mediocre/bad games. If he has another 2015, he'll be a bust. If he can turn his 2014 9 week stretch into a 2016 season, he'll be a big hit.

-Will Clarke (88th): MISS! Has done nothing.

-Tyler Eifert (21st): HIT Really needs to stay healthy, though.

-Giovani Bernard (37th): MISS I love Gio, but as a really early 2nd round pick, he's been a miss. Doesn't help both Le'Veon Bell and Eddie Lacy were both taken later in the round.

-Margus Hunt (53rd): MISS Hahahahaha, next time draft football players.

-Shawn Williams (84th): MISS It took Shawn Williams 39 games to get his first career pass defensed. Hopefully he can redeem his pick next year, but it matters less since next year is his contract year, so the value of the pick is long gone.

-Dre Kirkpatrick (17th): MISS People are still trying to make excuses for why he shouldn't be considered a veteran with 4 years in the NFL to excuse his play.

-Kevin Zeitler (27th): HIT Good player, improved the OL play. Does hurt a bit that they chose him over All-Pro DeCastro, though.

-Devon Still (53rd): MISS Not even sure I need to justify this.


-Mohamed Sanu (83rd): MISS In his last 24 games he has 49/556/1. That means he's averaged 2/23/0 a game for the last year an a half.

-Brandon Thompson (93rd): MISS He had 8 tackles this year (4 solo). He's not capable of even being activated every game, being a healthy scratch.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

People just say the Bengals tear it up in the draft, so it gets repeated, then repeated later without even looking at how the drafting actually has been. They've not been good in the early rounds the last few years.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-19-2016, 10:44 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Where did I say long list? I just said yet another, as in there's been ones before him. Keep in mind a good backup, mediocre (at best) starter, or rotational sorta contributor is NOT a hit. We're talking 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks here. They're supposed to be big impacts.

We'll have to see for the 2015 draft, not enough time yet, though none of the first three picks have made a big impact yet, but I generally don't judge a draft until 2 years in.
- - - - - - - - - -

-Darqueze Dennard (24th): MISS Has done nothing.

-Jeremy Hill (55th): UNCLEAR Had 9 amazing games, 23 mediocre/bad games. If he has another 2015, he'll be a bust. If he can turn his 2014 9 week stretch into a 2016 season, he'll be a big hit.

-Will Clarke (88th): MISS! Has done nothing.

-Tyler Eifert (21st): HIT Really needs to stay healthy, though.

-Giovani Bernard (37th): MISS I love Gio, but as a really early 2nd round pick, he's been a miss. Doesn't help both Le'Veon Bell and Eddie Lacy were both taken later in the round.

-Margus Hunt (53rd): MISS Hahahahaha, next time draft football players.

-Shawn Williams (84th): MISS It took Shawn Williams 39 games to get his first career pass defensed. Hopefully he can redeem his pick next year, but it matters less since next year is his contract year, so the value of the pick is long gone.

-Dre Kirkpatrick (17th): MISS People are still trying to make excuses for why he shouldn't be considered a veteran with 4 years in the NFL to excuse his play.

-Kevin Zeitler (27th): HIT Good player, improved the OL play. Does hurt a bit that they chose him over All-Pro DeCastro, though.

-Devon Still (53rd): MISS Not even sure I need to justify this.


-Mohamed Sanu (83rd): MISS In his last 24 games he has 49/556/1. That means he's averaged 2/23/0 a game for the last year an a half.

-Brandon Thompson (93rd): MISS He had 8 tackles this year (4 solo). He's not capable of even being activated every game, being a healthy scratch.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

People just say the Bengals tear it up in the draft, so it gets repeated, then repeated later without even looking at how the drafting actually has been. They've not been good in the early rounds the last few years.

Well, i guess if you consider all those guys misses, then so be it.  ANY time you draft a guy that starts and plays well, he is not a miss.  

And I do disagree with your assessment that a backup or rotational player is a miss.  This team has what many experts consider the best 53 man roster from top to bottom.  There's not going to be a lot of room for guys to step in and start.  In the 90s and early 2000s I would agree that those guys would be misses, but when they are sitting behind other 1st rounders and solid players, it's hard to crack the lineup.