Boomers Top 5 Qb's under 30 years old

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-06-2015, 12:15 AM)BoomerFan Wrote: *shrugs* I'll take Dalton over Ryan right now. And maybe Russ Wilson too. That is to say, if someone was offering to straight up trade Dalton for Matt Ryan or Russ Wilson, I'd stick with Dalton. That's my opinion and you can say the stats don't support that or that I'm crazy or whatever, but that's how I feel.

Why? Based on what? Those two QB's are heads and shoulders better than Dalton and it's not even close.

[type_stripe]

Ryan plays aweful if his weapons are out. Same thing with Dalton (but Dalton still was transitioning to a new offense). Dalton needed the established run to go with the defense (finally got it this year) and without the run or defense, Wilson isn't too special (still very quick on his feet). What are his stats vs. teams .600, .750, .8, etc. we know dalton struggled against extremely good teams, but not against most teams which are close to the .500-.6~~. It's funny how people forget the status of this team when he got here, and the players he was with last season.

Smh the Dalton bashers do not know the proper way to crucify a player if you still feel the need to look at experts (Boomer even said dalton was a good QB less than a year ago) who make these lists and rankings for views and publicity. I've witnessed Alex Smith be labelled as the worst QB in the league only to take the Niners to a NFC championship game and the chiefs to a near perfect season only a few seasons later. Stat lovers don't see the entire story, just whatever is on paper in front of them (probably won't even watch the game, only wait for stat lines)

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2015, 02:05 PM)type_stripe Wrote: Ryan plays aweful if his weapons are out. 

Matt Ryan threw for over 4,500 and posted a 89.6 QB rating in 2013 with Julio Jones missing 12 games, Roddy White banged up for more than half the year, and his three leading backs posting these stat lines:

Steven Jackson: 157 carries, 543 yards, 3.5 YPC

Jacquiz Rodgers: 96 carries, 332 yards, 3.5 YPC

Jason Snelling: 44 carries, 164 yards, 3.7 YPC

Andy Dalton's CAREER HIGH in yards is 4,293 and in QB rating it's 88.8.

So what you essentially just said is that either A.) Andy Dalton's best is "awful" B.) Matt Ryan without his weapons and playing awful is better than Andy Dalton at his best C.) Both A. + B.

[type_stripe]

You don't mention how white and jones are both #1 reviewers, even Douglas was talented enough to a #2 on most teams. Dalton plays with green (#1) and then you have jones and Sanu who are both #2s. Obviously if one of Ryan's #1 are out, he still has another #1 there. You fail to mention how Gruden had a AFL/ modified WCO to run slants and outs and now Jackson has a power football game plan. A bulk, probably all of Ryan's career has been a high-fly offense. So just like how Stanford puts up stats, I wouldn't expect any less from Ryan. But that doesn't mean he's better, smh. If you want to throw out stats, Dalton has more TDs and yards in his first 4 seasons than Ryan and that's without having 2 #1s. Big whoop right? But you'll dismiss it for whatever else you wanna attempt to claim lol

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2015, 02:40 PM)type_stripe Wrote: You don't mention how white and jones are both #1 reviewers, even Douglas was talented enough to a #2 on most teams. Dalton plays with green (#1) and then you have jones and Sanu who are both #2s. Obviously if one of Ryan's #1 are out, he still has another #1 there. You fail to mention how Gruden had a AFL/ modified WCO to run slants and outs and now Jackson has a power football game plan. A bulk, probably all of Ryan's career has been a high-fly offense. So just like how Stanford puts up stats, I wouldn't expect any less from Ryan. But that doesn't mean he's better, smh. If you want to throw out stats, Dalton has more TDs and yards in his first 4 seasons than Ryan and that's without having 2 #1s. Big whoop right? But you'll dismiss it for whatever else you wanna attempt to claim lol

What on earth are you talking about?  You made a comment about how Ryan plays without his weapons.  I simply tried to show what he did without them.  The ability of Julio Jones is kind of irrelevant when you're discussing the numbers he put up without him, is it not?

I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about with OC's.  Andy Dalton threw the ball 586 times during his career high of 2013.  He threw the ball 530 times in 2012.  I would guess that he has an average or above amount of downfield attempts.  Are you arguing that he's never had the opportunity to post better numbers?

And how exactly did Matt Ryan benefit from having two number 1's his first four years when Julio Jones wasn't even on the team until his 4th season?

I don't know, I really think some of you just make up bs as you go.  You said that Ryan plays awful without his weapons and I showed that he posted better numbers without them than Dalton ever has.  So again, either Dalton's best is awful or you were talking out of your ass.  Period.  End of story.

[type_stripe]

(06-07-2015, 02:55 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What on earth are you talking about?  You made a comment about how Ryan plays without his weapons.  I simply tried to show what he did without them.  The ability of Julio Jones is kind of irrelevant when you're discussing the numbers he put up without him, is it not?

I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about with OC's.  Andy Dalton threw the ball 586 times during his career high of 2013.  He threw the ball 530 times in 2012.  I would guess that he has an average or above amount of downfield attempts.  Are you arguing that he's never had the opportunity to post better numbers?

And how exactly did Matt Ryan benefit from having two number 1's his first four years when Julio Jones wasn't even on the team until his 4th season?

I don't know, I really think some of you just make up bs as you go.  You said that Ryan plays awful without his weapons and I showed that he posted better numbers without them than Dalton ever has.  So again, either Dalton's best is awful or you were talking out of your ass.  Period.  End of story.

Look at last season, Falcons offense was depleted. How did Ryan do? Honestly? He's not a better QB if he couldn't get his team a winning record in the sad nfc south last season. I brought up his supporting cast to show you 2 things: 1) he still has a very talented receiving core even if one of his #1s go down and 2) the Falcons offense relies more on passing verticals and deep slants than relying on 4-7 yard routes like Dalton under Gruden.

Ryan didn't have jones until his fourth, but even with that type of offense and his "better talent" he didn't rank with Dalton and the rest for most TDs and yards in those 4 season. You picked one of 8 of Ryan's seasons (his 6th actually) and tried to compare it to a guy who hasn't even started his 5th. So yea daltons career best chances of being better than Ryan's are slim. But Ryan is inconsistent. He's not successful in the playoffs and he didn't play well when his high powered offense is depleted, like last year. Idk toast, you might have changed your name but you still have your head too far up yours to change your way of thinking or observation. Ryan isn't better than Dalton.

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2015, 03:09 PM)type_stripe Wrote: Look at last season, Falcons offense was depleted. How did Ryan do?

He posted a 93.9 QB Rating, and threw for just shy of 4,700 yards.  He had 7 games of a QB rating 100 or higher.  He ranked 5th in highest QB rating and 5th in most yards.  5th as in 5th best.  Out of over 32 QB's.

You're really just making my point for me.

And fwiw, for all of you who are so quick to remind everyone that playoff loss are team losses, one last stat:  Atlanta's defense was 32nd in the league last season.  As in dead last.  So if you want to rush to bash him for his team's W/L record, maybe you should take that into account. 

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-07-2015, 03:09 PM)type_stripe Wrote: 1.) You picked one of 8 of Ryan's seasons (his 6th actually) and tried to compare it to a guy who hasn't even started his 5th. So yea daltons career best chances of being better than Ryan's are slim. But Ryan is inconsistent. 2.) He's not successful in the playoffs and 3.) he didn't play well when his high powered offense is depleted, like last year. Idk toast, you might have changed your name but you still have your head too far up yours to change your way of thinking or observation. 4.) Ryan isn't better than Dalton.

1.) I didn't pick it.  You did.  You brought up how he played without his weapons.  I simply posted his stats from that season.  Those were his numbers without Jones for 12 games and a banged up Roddy White.

2.) More successful than Dalton.  Although, literally any playoff QB has shown more in the playoffs than Andy.  I can't think of a single QB, ever, that has done worse in the postseason than Dalton has thus far.  So maybe don't bring up playoff woes when the Spicy Noodle is your QB.  Matt Ryan made it to the NFC Championship.  Our QB hasn't come within in 10 points of advancing past the Wildcard round.

3.) I thought we just went over this.  He posted an 89 QB rating without his weapons.  Last year he had the 5th highest QB rating in the league.  Why do you keep making this up, that he plays so poorly without weapons, when I have clearly showed you that that is a lie.

4.) This is absolutely ridiculous.  Laughable even.  You poll all 32 coaches, who would you rather have, Matt Ryan or Andy Dalton, I guarantee that all but one or two, if any at all, would choose Dalton.  If you really believe that Dalton is better than Ryan then I don't want to tell you.  It's really not worth my time to try to debate this any further.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-06-2015, 12:19 AM)bonesaw Wrote: I'm still holding out my last strand of hope for Dalton.  I however find a strange that there aren't any reports on how McCarron is doing in OTA's.  We've been waiting to see if we got something in him but radio silence.

I have heard McCarron has been looking real good in OTA's actually.

But that don't mean nothing if Dalton can play the way he plays when he plays good.

Get out of his head and we will have a fine QB. Imagine if he plays like the Saints game last year consistently from here on out.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-07-2015, 03:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: He posted a 93.9 QB Rating, and threw for just shy of 4,700 yards.  He had 7 games of a QB rating 100 or higher.  He ranked 5th in highest QB rating and 5th in most yards.  5th as in 5th best.  Out of over 32 QB's.

You're really just making my point for me.

And fwiw, for all of you who are so quick to remind everyone that playoff loss are team losses, one last stat:  Atlanta's defense was 32nd in the league last season.  As in dead last.  So if you want to rush to bash him for his team's W/L record, maybe you should take that into account. 

Yeah I was going to point out how bad the Falcons' defense was, but you beat me to it. If we're talking Matt Stafford, it's debatable, but Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson have clearly been better than Dalton, and I'd trade him in a heartbeat for either one. Stuff like this makes "Dalton Defenders" look bad.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-07-2015, 03:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah I was going to point out how bad the Falcons' defense was, but you beat me to it. If we're talking Matt Stafford, it's debatable, but Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson have clearly been better than Dalton, and I'd trade him in a heartbeat for either one. Stuff like this makes "Dalton Defenders" look bad.

I just hate hypotheticals, yeah i would trade Dalton for Ryan or Wilson but it ain't happenin'.

Rivers would be the guy i would want the most though, even if he is getting up there and i hate the ugly way he throws.

He has that will that could get us a SB, but it ain't happenin' either.

We just need Dalton to get that will and the coaches to get out of his head. We have seen what he can do when he plays good.

It is really good, if not great.

[type_stripe]

(06-07-2015, 03:28 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) I didn't pick it.  You did.  You brought up how he played without his weapons.  I simply posted his stats from that season.  Those were his numbers without Jones for 12 games and a banged up Roddy White.

2.) More successful than Dalton.  Although, literally any playoff QB has shown more in the playoffs than Andy.  I can't think of a single QB, ever, that has done worse in the postseason than Dalton has thus far.  So maybe don't bring up playoff woes when the Spicy Noodle is your QB.  Matt Ryan made it to the NFC Championship.  Our QB hasn't come within in 10 points of advancing past the Wildcard round.

3.) I thought we just went over this.  He posted an 89 QB rating without his weapons.  Last year he had the 5th highest QB rating in the league.  Why do you keep making this up, that he plays so poorly without weapons, when I have clearly showed you that that is a lie.

4.) This is absolutely ridiculous.  Laughable even.  You poll all 32 coaches, who would you rather have, Matt Ryan or Andy Dalton, I guarantee that all but one or two, if any at all, would choose Dalton.  If you really believe that Dalton is better than Ryan then I don't want to tell you.  It's really not worth my time to try to debate this any further.

I'm stating that even when his weapons are out the Falcons still have weapons for Ryan. Douglas is a high #2 on most teams, not a #3 like on the Falcons. 2013, Ryan still had hall of famer Tony Gonzalez lining up also. Cmon man, I'm not saying Dalton is better than Ryan. Just Ryan isn't "head and shoulders" better than Dalton. He has a stacked offense, he has the type of offensive scheme to air it out, and he will put up #s. But if you give him Gresham instead of Gonzalez, give him BJGE as the premier back instead of Jackson, give him Hawkins or Sazenbacher instead of whoever was on the other side of Douglas, his #s wouldn't look like that.

[SunsetBengal]

I agree that Ryan should not have made the list, as he is 30.  (best QBs under 30 duh..)

However, even if Ryan were to be omitted, I'm not as sure as some others that Dalton would make the list.

I believe that he would just plug in Ryan Tannehill.  After 3 seasons, he's got a 61.9% completion rate for his career, to go along with just a 2.5% INT rate.  Dalton is now thought of as a 'choker' in big games, and, at this point in time, it's really kind of hard to argue with that.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-07-2015, 04:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree that Ryan should not have made the list, as he is 30.  (best QBs under 30 duh..)

However, even if Ryan were to be omitted, I'm not as sure as some others that Dalton would make the list.

I believe that he would just plug in Ryan Tannehill.  After 3 seasons, he's got a 61.9% completion rate for his career, to go along with just a 2.5% INT rate.  Dalton is now thought of as a 'choker' in big games, and, at this point in time, it's really kind of hard to argue with that.

Yeah I was thinking the same on Tannehill. In fact, I like Tannehill over Stafford by a slim margin.

[*bengalfan74*]

(06-07-2015, 04:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yeah I was thinking the same on Tannehill. In fact, I like Tannehill over Stafford by a slim margin.

Tannehill may well be one of the emerging upper tier QB's. He's had ups and downs, but what young QB doesn't ?

[Shake n Blake]

(06-07-2015, 05:03 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Tannehill may well be one of the emerging upper tier QB's. He's had ups and downs, but what young QB doesn't ?

I liked him coming out of the 2012 draft. He's shown steady improvement each year and really busted out last year.

I'm not sure why he struggles with the deep ball, but he has a solid arm. His accuracy was off the charts last year (66.4%) and he limits INT's.

[BengalChris]

A good list from Boomer. The only surprise for me was that Cam Newton was on the list and Tannihill wasn't. Tannihill has done more with less. I'm looking for a breakout year from Tannihill.

Detroit is just dysfunctional and I'm afraid they are wasting Stafford's talents up there. Sorta like Atlanta and Matt Ryan. Both excellent QBs who would be an upgrade for most teams around the league.

(06-07-2015, 04:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree that Ryan should not have made the list, as he is 30. (best QBs under 30 duh..)

However, even if Ryan were to be omitted, I'm not as sure as some others that Dalton would make the list.

I believe that he would just plug in Ryan Tannehill. After 3 seasons, he's got a 61.9% completion rate for his career, to go along with just a 2.5% INT rate. Dalton is now thought of as a 'choker' in big games, and, at this point in time, it's really kind of hard to argue with that.

I have to agree that Dalton doesn't make this list. Dalton is ahead of RG III, Geno Smith, Johnny Midget and EJ Manual if anyone cares. I also have Dalton ahead of Kaepernick mostly, except Kaepernick did win some playoff games and go to a SB.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-07-2015, 05:38 PM)BengalChris Wrote: A good list from Boomer. The only surprise for me was that Cam Newton was on the list and Tannihill wasn't. Tannihill has done more with less. I'm looking for a breakout year from Tannihill.

Detroit is just dysfunctional and I'm afraid they are wasting Stafford's talents up there. Sorta like Atlanta and Matt Ryan. Both excellent QBs who would be an upgrade for most teams around the league.

I actually agree with you here Chris. Tannehill is a pretty good looking QB.

What are all his weapons now i wonder? I know they have Lamar Miller at RB who i always like and Coyle
our bro at DC. Could be a team on the cusp especially with Brady out for the first quarter of the season.

Also, people on here have been discounting Stafford's talent. He has a great arm and can make all of the
throws. He has been injured a lot through out his career. I think some have made an unfair assessment of
Stafford. Sure Calvin Johnson is one of the greatest WR's to ever play the game but Stafford gets hit a lot.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-06-2015, 12:15 AM)BoomerFan Wrote: *shrugs* I'll take Dalton over Ryan right now. And maybe Russ Wilson too. That is to say, if someone was offering to straight up trade Dalton for Matt Ryan or Russ Wilson, I'd stick with Dalton. That's my opinion and you can say the stats don't support that or that I'm crazy or whatever, but that's how I feel.

Can I really call you crazy, or are you just baiting me?

[XenoMorph]

(06-06-2015, 12:19 AM)bonesaw Wrote: I'm still holding out my last strand of hope for Dalton. I however find a strange that there aren't any reports on how McCarron is doing in OTA's. We've been waiting to see if we got something in him but radio silence.

last i heard hes doing well and distancing himself from the backup competition.

Of Josh Johnson and TP